Key word question

It doesn't make a difference either way. Meta Tags, which is what I am assuming you are talking about, have no real SEO value anymore. So, either way is fine as how they will be used by the few resources out there that use them will use them and interpret them differently and you cannot control that.

It doesn't make a difference either way. Meta Tags, which is what I am assuming you are talking about, have no real SEO value anymore. So, either way is fine as how they will be used by the few resources out there that use them will use them and interpret them differently and you cannot control that.

Search engines have uses for meta tags. Read the guidelines. The search engine Google doesn't indicate anything contrary to the other search engines.

Search engines have uses for meta tags. Read the guidelines. The search engine Google doesn't indicate anything contrary to the other search engines.

Nobody uses the Meta Keywords or Description tags in their rankings. That's SEO 101.

Nobody uses the Meta Keywords or Description tags in their rankings. That's SEO 101.

Newcomers to Internet marketing should not heed this type of advice.

The search engines explicitly recommend the use of meta tags. Do some research. SEO juniors need to read what the search engines have to say about proper usage of meta tags and why they are important to the search engines, then make up their own minds about if and how to use meta tags.

Suggesting otherwise, is like selling someone a car without any brakes. Yep, the car will run fine until it needs to come to a stop. Why would you want to under-equip a newcomer in SEO. Advanced web site promotion specialists may have sufficient content crafting abilities to alleviate many basic SEO elements, but those types of exceptionally skilled Internet marketers need not come here for SEO tips and advice.

According to the search engines and not the nobodies that stymiee is referring to, it always a good SEO practice to suggest something to the search engines using meta tags which should briefly highlight the unique and pertinent web page content. MSN and Yahoo are very clear about this. Google is a little wishy-washy when it comes to explaining how and why to use meta tags but that is not an indication that they do not gather up information within the meta tags for consideration. Google reads everything and with its thousands of web content filtering mechanisms, meta tags when they are available are undoubtedly factored into rankings.

Now, if you have something to hide or if you are trying to inject a secondary "hidden" agenda ... well then maybe it wouldn't be such a good idea to use meta tags then eh.

Yeah, what Fred said. Consider it SEO 102.

BB

Newcomers to Internet marketing should not heed this type of advice.

This is the type of advice they need to find more of. The correct kind that is.

The search engines explicitly recommend the use of meta tags. Do some research.

They do not recommend it. They say nothing about it. Here's what Google recommends to webmasters. Not a single word on Meta tags can be found. Here are MSN's guidelines. Same thing. You do the research and you'll find that meta tags are not used in the ranking algorithms of the search engines thanks to the abuse of them back in the early days of the search engines. This is so basic it is very scary that you call yourself an SEO expert and then spit out this kind of garbage.

SEO juniors need to read what the search engines have to say about proper usage of meta tags and why they are important to the search engines, then make up their own minds about if and how to use meta tags.

Let me save them some time. Use the Meta Description tag as Google and MSN will use it in the absence of a Dmoz listing for your site or you use the NOOPD Meta tag on your pages. The Meta Keywords tag is only useful for directory and minor (VERY Minor) search engines that still use them because they lack an advanced search algorithm. There, I saved them the effort.

Suggesting otherwise, is like selling someone a car without any brakes. Yep, the car will run fine until it needs to come to a stop.

Awful analogy. I'll skip it.

Why would you want to under-equip a newcomer in SEO. Advanced web site promotion specialists may have sufficient content crafting abilities to alleviate many basic SEO elements, but those types of exceptionally skilled Internet marketers need not come here for SEO tips and advice.

Being new to SEO doesn't make Meta tags suddenly work. So why tell them that? Tell them the truth right from the beginning so they don't waste their time on something that offers them no return for their effort. Something like the effect of incoming links and what makes links different. Ya know, something that actually will affect their rankings.

According to the search engines and not the nobodies that stymiee is referring to, it always a good SEO practice to suggest something to the search engines using meta tags which should briefly highlight the unique and pertinent web page content. MSN and Yahoo are very clear about this. Google is a little wishy-washy when it comes to explaining how and why to use meta tags but that is not an indication that they do not gather up information within the meta tags for consideration. Google reads everything and with its thousands of web content filtering mechanisms, meta tags when they are available are undoubtedly factored into rankings.

Wrong. Period. This has been gone over so many times in so many forums and communities that the fact that we have to even debate this is ridiculous. The meta description and meta keywords tags are not used in the search engine algorithms of the major search engines. Only other tags like ROBOTS and NOODP are used and they do not affect a page's rankings in the SERPs.

Want to suggest something to the search engines? Try using good content. (What a concept!)

For those of you who like to use your brain and think things out, chew on this. It should help to make the concept clearer for you. Ranking algorithms are based on content a page provides and its relevancy to a search term. Meta Tags offer nothing to the user and can be easily manipulated with no detrimental affect to the web page. Thus, just like comments in HTML, they are ignored. They have no value in SEO. They have value in other areas of the web, but your rankings in the SERPs of the major search engines is not one of them.

Yeah, what Fred said. Consider it SEO 102.

BB

You should establish yourself as knowledgeable in a field before making comments like that.

I did already. What, I have to come round your house and prove myself to your satisfaction before you allow me to post?

BB

Really, don't waste your time arguing with me and stop promoting your garbage techniques. Get to work.

http://code.google.com/webstats/2005-12/metadata.html

Metadata (including title and description) that accurately describes the contents of a web page
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/ysearch/basics/basics-18.html

Add a website description into a Descriptionmeta tag, as shown here:
<META NAME="Description" CONTENT="Describe your website here" />
http://search.msn.com/docs/siteowner.aspx?t=SEARCH_WEBMASTER_CONC_AboutYourSiteDescription.htm

MSN: http://search.msn.com/docs/siteowner.aspx?t=SEARCH_WEBMASTER_CONC_AboutYourSiteDescription.htm

Did you read this page at all??? This page clearly says the meta description is for updating your sites' description in the serps. Just like I have been saying all along. Thank you for proving my point for me.

Google: http://code.google.com/webstats/2005-12/metadata.html
Once again you didn't check your source. This is part of a larger report showing the data as collected from their indexed content. They also showed common names for DIVs and other on page details. This page shows meta tags usage they have found on their websites. So not only did you take thi spage out of conttext (way out of context) but it says absolutely nothing about them using meta tags in their rankings. Thank you again for proving my point.

Yahoo: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/ysearch/basics/basics-18.html
This is their webmaster guideline page. This says they don't want spammy meta tags or, more specifically, spammy content. Once again, it doesn't say they use in their ranking algorithm.

You just clearly shown that you don't understand SEO at all. You took the fact that the search engines discuss meta tags in some capacity that is not about rankings and then made the huge leap that they use them in their algorithms.

Thank you for your post. You did my work for me.

I think you are looking for arguments for nothing. You keep altering your argument to suit your needs so as to not make your own self look rediculous and in doing so it isn't contributing to anything remotely professional looking.

You took the fact that the search engines discuss meta tags in some capacity that is not about rankings and then made the huge leap that they use them in their algorithms.

But that is the point. The fact that the search engines even discuss it, some at length and with specific instructions to how to use them effectively, must mean they consider it to have value. To which extend is debatable as we may never know.

I run across people like you everyday. People obsessed with seeking SEO expert status. They want others to think like they may know all the little bits and pieces of the search engines thousands of algos and filters secrets. They have the exclusive meta tag angle covered. They are like the skinny dog who barks on the other side of the window. It is marketing. Appearing to be have some knowledge is a marketing illusion. Create. Argue until you are blue in the face all you want, but I am not wasting my breath with you anymore. Let each decide his own uses of meta tags. We have provided the SEO newbie both spectrums. You say that certain meta tags aren't an important factor in determining ranking, I disagree. Let each decide on their own and let's leave it that.

But that is the point. The fact that the search engines even discuss it, some at length and with specific instructions to how to use them effectively, must mean they consider it to have value. To which extend is debatable as we may never know.

How can you come to that conclusion? That's based on poor logic. Just because they discuss them doesn't mean they use them. There is no correlation between the two. None.

I run across people like you everyday. People obsessed with seeking SEO expert status. They want others to think like they may know all the little bits and pieces of the search engines thousands of algos and filters secrets. They have the exclusive meta tag angle covered. They are like the skinny dog who barks on the other side of the window. It is marketing. Appearing to be have some knowledge is a marketing illusion. Create. Argue until you are blue in the face all you want, but I am not wasting my breath with you anymore. Let each decide his own uses of meta tags. We have provided the SEO newbie both spectrums. You say that certain meta tags aren't an important factor in determining ranking, I disagree. Let each decide on their own and let's leave it that.

1) I haven't called myself an SEO expert. But you sure do call yourself one.

2) I don't have SEO services advertised in my signature. You do.

So who are you describing?

When it comes to SEO there are little facts available that come directly from the search engines. As a result it is sup to each webmaster to try to discern fact from fiction based on a variety of sources and the reliability of those sources. Unfortunately, that takes time to do. As a result too many newbies go around making proclamations about SEO that are untrue and even ridiculous. I see it every day and it sucks. I can't stop people from making wild declarations or believing what they want to believe. But I can refute the garbage that is out there so those who are really interested in putting together a good understanding of SEO can do so and hopefully reap the rewards of their efforts.

You almost make sense now John.

You almost make sense now John.

Just catching up to you. :)

Just catching up to you. :)

:lol: A good sense of humour. We could probably get along after all. Hang around you make for seriously sparked debate which is good for all of us.

Regards Fred

This is definitely the best debate around. That's for sure.