PC Guy that wants a Mac

[Tekmaven]

I would describe myself as one of he most diehard Microsoft supporter that you'll ever come across. I develop on the Windows Platform, I run all my servers on the Windows Platform, etc, etc. I preach Microsoft's products all the time; even if the conversation has nothign to do with computers.

So, why... why... do I want a Mac? It's not even one of those small desires that goes away eventually. I really want one. I basically think about getting a Mac every hour of every day.

Thanks to PearPC, I'm screwed even more. PearPC doesn't quench my thirst for Mac ownership; it just makes me more thirsty. How the heck can I live with this modestly slow performance? Right now, I'm on PearPC, and this is a P4 3.4ghz, with 1gb of DDR2 RAM, and a ATI Radeon X300 PCI Express x16 graphics card. Should be fast? No. Animations barely move, I can barely keep open Microsoft Entourage (mail app) without PearPC locking up from all the load.

The worst part is, an Apple computer with Mac OS X is hardly useful to me. Mac OS X is really the thing that is pulling me to the Mac platform. The only thing I can say about it, is that it is truely sexy. Not just any sexy, its like the sexy you dream about at night with the winning lottery ticket and the girls from the Windows NT core development team (and Dani.. ;)). The reasons for not getting a Mac are so valid: I can't develop the things I want to develop on it. The only thing it is good for is Final Cut Pro (which is Mac only). I'm hardcore into video, so this basically the sole reason to get a Mac (besides awesome OS X), so I'm kinda mentally saying that this is 'enough'. So, I would have a Mac right now, if only for the one problem.

The price. Has anyone looked up the prices for those things? To get something equivlent (well, comparable) on a PC, would be hundreds (if not thousands) less. I hate the eMac (my Mac would need to be sleek and sexy... no CRT crap :cool:), the iMac isn't an option for me either (I want a tower; the all in one computer thing is not for me; I want to be able to open my case easily and make hardware changes, etc), and the G5 towers cost SOO much. I could get a "high-end" eMachines computer for the price of their cheapest LCD: $699.

Sorry, just wanted to let everyone know how screwed up my mind is. Thanks to Dani's G5, the G4 I use sometimes at a place I intern, and PearPC, I'm a mac owner wannabe.

Can someone from Apple see this post, and send me like $10,000 in free Mac hardware? Just a Dual G5 (any speed or configuration; as long as I had a nice-sized hard disk, and at least 1GB of ram) and two Studio Displays (maybe the 20", but the 17" is alright with me LOL) would be perfect. Heck, I'd even do one of those Mac switch commercials; "I switched to a Mac.. [insert whatever you want me to say here]. Hi, my name is Ryan Hoffman, and I'm a Microsoft .NET developer". That would sure turn heads :!:.

So, back to my PC :cry:.

[Puckdropper]

I can't develop the things I want to develop on it.

That may not be true... Have you looked in to Apple's developer's software?

I have 5 Macs within my range of vision, and actually wouldn't mind selling one... but you won't want it...

The best way to find something you want is to find what you want, then WAIT. I'm going to get a Playstation 2 (I will NOT call that a "PS2". Too many IBM input devices have been good to me. I love those keyboards and mice, reason enough to get a PC alone. lol) for $150 rather than the $200 they were asking because I waited.

[Tekmaven]

That may not be true... Have you looked in to Apple's developer's software?

I have 5 Macs within my range of vision, and actually wouldn't mind selling one... but you won't want it...

I'm a .NET Developer. Microsoft .NET stuff just can't be compiled/executed on a Mac (using Microsoft tools).

And, I'd probably take anything I could get now, but I probably don't have nearly enough money :o .

[Tekmaven]

Oh, geeze. Aparently, Mac users are smarter then PC users.

Someone get me a Mac :cry: .

[Zachery]

Macs for all their awsomeness are just as buggy as windows.

Ive been fighting for a week now with an OS9 imac, its hopeless at this point :/

[Tekmaven]

Well, I don't really like OS9. OS X just rocks my socks off though ;).

[kc0arf]

Hello,

Zach, OS 9 was a nice OS to work with. Properly installed and configured, you too can have a lasting pleasent experience with it. I'm sorry to hear that you are having problems with OS 9... perhaps if you posted to the Mac Forum, we could look at the issue together.

Tek, you are evolving beyond the simple Windoze paradigm. You seek elegance; you want your computing time to be used to generate useful work instead of debugging things and finding out why this certain thing doesn't work.

No computer OS is perfect; the Mac OS comes pretty damn close. Compare all the Windoze (in)Security topics and all the requests for help in the forums.

I have seen word documents have problems with underlining on a Windoze box. Sent the document to a Mac. Didn't change a damn thing. Printed just fine. Print driver? Office version? Font problem? I dunno. I didn't care. The Mac did it right. There have been a number of times in a lab environment that people couldn't get something to print or display properly on the PC... took it to the Mac, and it flowed nicely.

As for cost, yes, a Mac will cost a little more initially. But when you purchase the PC, you do not see the costs of time on the phone with support people, or time installing and upgrading various spyware packages and antivirus. Yes OS X needs a firewall -- it has an easily customizable firewall provided, or you can do what I do and hide behind a Linux-based router and let her do the firewalling. I can count on two hands the amount of times I needed to reload my 1999 Powerbook G3 333 Mhz computer. I did it for each OS upgrade, (9 --> 10.1 --> 10.2 --> 10.3) and a couple times for partitioning while I did tests with YellowDogLinux. I also swapped hard drives once, and the new one died after 2 years, so I had to reload it about 4 months ago. Think about how many times people have had to reload Windoze.

And Crunchie will *never* be asked to look at your Mac's HJT log!

Tek, you might wish to look into a laptop. Mobile computing is all the more better, unless you need those digitial feeds or large hard drives. I love the laptop... partitioned out like a server, able to connect and store "locations" so I can go from place to place to place, hit a button, and all the settings from last time (in terms of networking) are restored.

Programs such as Dreamweaver, Photoshop, Illustrator, RagTime, OpenOffice, Fire, Mozilla, Filemaker Pro, Final Cut Pro, and Toast will allow you to be productive in many ways. With the BSD stuff working, you can also get into Unix programs, and compile your own stuff. No, you will not have .NET stuff, but there is life outside of that environment. If you really need .NET, keep your Windoze box alive, build a Citrix box, and connect via Citrix. The only real thing I see missing besides .NET is a Novell Client for the Mac. For whatever reason, Novell makes a free OS/2 client, but Mac people cannot get one. But in Netware 6.x, AFP file access is restored out of the box. Heck, you can get a RDP Client from Microsoft to remote manage 2000/2003/XP computers!

You might be able to get yourself a used Mac; but good luck; Mac people are dedicated to their hardware, and find uses for their old machines. My cousin is using my 7100 that I used in college from 1993 - 1997, and she does not complain about it being OS 9, 66 Mhz, and no DVD. She does her homework, looks for things on the internet, and prints to a Laser Printer. My G3 Server is being used as a YellowDogLinux platform. I could send you my LC from 1991-1993, but I am saving that for my future children, when they need something simple to run their learning software on.

Tek, you are Thinking Different. It's time for some fruit in your life!

Christian

(p.s. if you get a laptop, you can show Dani your new computer, and let her be the one in envy)

[Puckdropper]

I've got a Centris 610 that I'd be willing to part with... Computer only. Don't expect much out of it, it doesn't even have a CD-ROM drive, and is missing the front cover for a CD-ROM drive (which makes me think someone took it out before donating it to the thrift store.)

It'll at least give you something to play with for the time being. I believe System 7.5.3 is on there. You'll have to get a Mac keyboard and mouse, and maybe monitor. (Most modern monitors work with an adapter. If a monitor can display 600x800x256, it can handle Mac video with an adapter.)

The Mac bug bit me too, and I must venture to say that neither OS 7, 8 or Windows 9x interface-wise is truely superior. (I do like Mac OS X, but it has its short comings too.)

[alc6379]

I dunno, puckdropper. I own more pre OS X Macs than I can count on my fingers, and I must say that using OS X is, for some unspeakable reason to me, "cooler" than the other Mac OS versions. Don't get me wrong-- I love System 7.1, 8.6, and 9.1, but the first time I booted OS X.2, I looked down and thought, "Man, is that drool on the floor!?!?!"

If I had the choice between running OS X and an earlier version, I'd probably jump for OS X, too.

[drummerboy]

Well Tek i wonder if this would maybe supress (more on it here) your desire slightly until you raise the cash you would need . The theme will skin your whole pc, and it will appear to be a mac. Maybe just maybe it will make you slighlty more happier as you will still be able to work on .Net apps.

You can find more mac orientated DesktopX themes here
I hope you enjoy them
Nigel

[Dani]

I'm not a fan of WindowBlinds and the like (I use StyleXP) but I have to admit that's a pretty good knock-off.

[Tekmaven]

Thanks everyone for responding ;-). kc0arf, I really want to write a nice length response to you, but I don't have enough time this weekend, so hang tight.. btw.. awesome post ;-).

Puckdropper, thank you for your offer, but I'll have to pass. I don't think I could stand having that, when I know what Mac I *really* want ;-).

And, drummerboy, skinning Windows to look like OS X, and *actually* having OS X, are two hugely different things. If I just skin myself, I'll know that I still have the same darn PC. That isn't the goal.

;).

[drummerboy]

And, drummerboy, skinning Windows to look like OS X, and *actually* having OS X, are two hugely different things. If I just skin myself, I'll know that I still have the same darn PC. That isn't the goal.

;).

Of course mate, i was just offering you a quick fix while you save your pennys ;)

[cosi]

I find the Mac to be a convenient way to separate home and work. Yes I may not be able to do everything with programming .NET on my Mac, but that's ok. I don't need to do work on my personal machine; I want a system that I love to use at home.

And also I have to say that when I'm working on open sourced applications that hail from the Linux/*nix world or anything not .NET or tied Windows, there's no contest---OS X is better equipped than Windows.

Ed

[Tekmaven]

This PC guy, has purchased a Mac! YAY.

Spec's are in the signature :).

[DuncanIdaho]

Soo...when you selling your PC's? ;)

[Tekmaven]

Never...

My primary development platform is on Windows ;).

[San10]

:p Ha,
well i am happy with my Imac G4 now.
Last year i tried Windows 98 on A Celeron 850Mhz;
Xp on a new intel P4 2.6 Ghz and they all crashed severely!!!
Giving me headaches and a stiff neck, having to replace the whole sytem every now and them using bootfloppy, typing the legendary FORMAT C:
By looking into pc's, i've become a system administrator, LOL :D !
People ask me to help them with their crashy pc's.
I've seen all versions now; 3.11, 95 98 98SE ME 2000 and XP(service pack 1and2)
But after helping people i can nicely go back to my mac and enjoy it.
Xp servicepack 2 seemed far more stable than before that; but mmmm, still too unstable for me.

There was already a sign to switch to mac and that was when i replaced the whole shell32.dll by a tweaked mac one.
In " my computer" it then said: About this mac :D
But Windows replaced the systemfiles back every update, so i finally used windows blinds.
Ahh, and finally sold everything and bought me an Imac for 600€

Funny, still i got those windows fear spasms when an application freezes or crashes. But with a Mac,... no worries, in worst case scenario, just shut down, restart and everything is still there, phew.

O, yeah, if u really like a sexy computer, u should also buy an imac G4!!!
This space age designed contrivance that u can talk to and let it talk back in all kind of funny voices is the fanciest and sweetest i've ever seen. And of course together with the GUI and the sound of those apple speakers which is also awesome.

:lol: , Sanne

[Zachery]

talk about dragging up the dead,

Its near impossible to crash windows xp unless you are doing somthing stupid (like replacing system files :rolleyes: thats never smart) Considering we run a huge network of 2000 and XP computers along with 2000 server and 2003 server, along with a UNIX SCO box and a few RH boxes, and a few macs as well. They are all rock solid. The only time windows really crashes anymore is if you tell it to do somthing that you should not be doing, like replacing system files.

[San10]

talk about dragging up the dead,

Its near impossible to crash windows xp unless you are doing somthing stupid (like replacing system files :rolleyes: thats never smart) Considering we run a huge network of 2000 and XP computers along with 2000 server and 2003 server, along with a UNIX SCO box and a few RH boxes, and a few macs as well. They are all rock solid. The only time windows really crashes anymore is if you tell it to do somthing that you should not be doing, like replacing system files.

I guess the pc's in your network are configured in a more professional kind of way, you are programmers too i guess, which is different from being a layman having a pc with xp home edition. Okay, when u would have a pc and not use the internet, then xp might be quite ok, well with service pack 2 i must say.
But tell me, many people like to browse the internet (with all the vulnerability issues, spyware, that we didn't know and wasn't picked up by our expensive virusscanners!)
Ok, when you have a fresh install and only use the wordpad, the paint, just type some text and not using the internet, it might work fine for a while.
But is it strange for people to want to download and burn mp3's, dvd's (s) vcd's, e-mailing etc.? I thought those fast pc's were designed for that. And i first had a fresh install, (far before i did any tweaking or whatsoever), but despite that it already gave problems and systemerrors.
I know friends who only type some letters, and rarely use the internet, only sometimes for chatting via MSN, but their pc's are also producing stalls and system errors and they really don't know what to do about it and just don't use it then till someone pops by to help them out.
I thought pc's today were designed for being intuitively used by laymen, by just clicking and burning stuff.

I meant i just noticed that the mac os x is getting really close to that just intuitively clicking and burning without problems. ;)
The only problem with macs is still compatibility with games, software, hardware (can't use my 'Labtec' webcam that came with my dsl router :sad: ) and the price $$

Sanne ;)

[kc0arf]

Welcome Sanne,

For Games, I am still running around with Diablo II Lord of Destruction Expansion pack. Haven't had a chance to fully solve it. Runs well on my 333 Powerbook with OS X installed. Agree that Windoze has more games, but also more crashes among other quirks.

Come visit us more if you need help. See what we can do.

Christian

[Zachery]

I use this system for all of that I've never in the past 5 years had more than 2 virus, one was from my own stupidity and the other was from kazaa, which i no longer use. IT is really hard to crash windows xp, you need to be trying to do it to make it actually BSOD now adays.

[big_k105]

to tell you the truth i am running win 2000 at work here. and i have only crashed this machine a few times and those were my stupidity because i was coding some vb using some windows api's incorrectly and i killed some stuff. but other then that the only other time i ever crashed this thing was when i had hardware goin out on me. now this pc hasnt gone down in almost a year. and really the only time my xp home on my laptop ever crashed was when i was playing with shit. or when i was stupid and was using kazaa. i guess that dont matter know that i use linux at home. but this win2k machine is solid and so are all the pc's at my work and they are all running 2k or xp pro.

[Tekmaven]

OS X just seems slower then XP. In Firefox, Safari, or even Camino, web pages take a few seconds to draw on the screen, and I "feel" the entire system lag.

Again, I'm not on a Dual G5 machine, but a 400mhz Celeron could render web pages smoother then my 867mhz G4. I have almost all of the quality settings off, and antialiasing is off for smaller fonts too.

It might just be that this is how OS X presents slowness LOL... I guess I'm used to the way Windows presents it.

[Tekmaven]

There was already a sign to switch to mac and that was when i replaced the whole shell32.dll by a tweaked mac one.
In " my computer" it then said: About this mac :D
But Windows replaced the systemfiles back every update, so i finally used windows blinds.

I wonder why you had stability problems.....

Again folks, I don't have any stability problems on Windows machines. If you do, its due to inexperience or because of bad hardware - two things which can just as easily happen on a mac.

[wyrickj]

Tekmaven I had to comment on this thread as well.

I used G4's when I was in school and they seemed to crash and I had to do a cold boot. Now I think these machines only had 256MB ram and we ran Photoshop and stuff but with the same amount of ram on Windows XP it runs faster and does not lockup. And I am also a .NET Programmer but I think Windows XP myself performs better then Mac OS 9 and maybe OSX.

[jwenting]

In my experience the vast majority of all problems people have with any OS and hardware are self-induced.

People overclock their systems, install unstable hacked beta drivers because someone told them those are faster, plug in hardware without reading the installation instructions (or not comprehending them when they do read them), and then blame Microsoft for making a bad product.

Apple has it easier in that respect in that they have far more control over the hardware their customers are running.
Linux also has it easier because it's mainly used by people with more knowhow as well as having a lot less hardware and application support overall and therefore less chance of users messing it up.

Personally the only OS crashes I've had since upgrading to Windows 2000 back in 1999 that weren't caused due to bugs in (usually) 3rd party applications were due to hardware problems (last weekend for example an overheating videocard that caused my PC to reset itself every few minutes, faulty power cable to the fan, can happen to any computer).

I've been thinking of getting me a Mac on the side, but a cheap one.
Not to become my main machine (doing development for Windows and modern Java versions not supported on Mac that's impossible even if I wanted to) but to play with (like my Linux box which is also to play with).
Thinking of either a used iMac (can get some reasonably cheap) or a new miniMac (but those are still too expensive for a plaything, especially considering I'd need to get a screen for it as well as a USB hub, keyboard and mouse (only leftover keyboard and mouse I have are DIN and serial respectively which just won't fit in a USB port no matter how hard I push).

[kc0arf]

Hello,

You might want to consider a Mac Laptop. Less desk space, and can give you the look and feel that you desire.

If you do not like OS X, you can consider YellowDogLinux, which is based on RedHat. It will work just fine on Apple hardware, and it does feel faster.

If you want to work with OS X, 333 Mhz, which is what I have, is about as slow as you want to go.

Christian

[jwenting]

they're nice but more than I'm currently willing (or able) to spend on something that won't be my main machine but rather an experiment.

thought the Imacs would be rather too slow to be useful, after all why else are they being dumped in numbers ;)