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Last Post by Junyah
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Although I thought this was pretty much inevitable once Apple started using Intel chips, it now begs the questions of what makes a Mac a Mac? Is it because you are running OSX, or is it because it was designed and built by Apple? Also, if you have a Mac running Windows, does it then become a Apple designed PC? Will the Macs ever carry a designed for Windows logo alongside of their Apple logo?

Aside from all of that, who really wants to keep rebooting their computer just to use a different OS? With apps like VMWare being free now, why would you really need to, other than gaming of course.

One thing I'm interested in seeing is the inevitable benchmarking that will come out from all of this comparing a Mac-PC, (can we call it that?) vs. something from Dell, or HP, or even better, Alienware (I know they're owned by Dell now). Are the Macs going to be noting more than just a pretty face with the same guts?

Strange world we live in.

Andy

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I don't think people will buy a Mac to run Windows. But for those of us who need Windows apps and don't want windows boxes, this is a step in the right direction at least. Besides, I suspect Leopard will include windows virtualization, so one won't have to reboot.

Oh.. and:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/

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I don't think people will buy a Mac to run Windows. But for those of us who need Windows apps and don't want windows boxes, this is a step in the right direction at least. Besides, I suspect Leopard will include windows virtualization, so one won't have to reboot.

Oh.. and:

http://www.apple.com/macosx/bootcamp/

Either way, I still think the fact that Apple released an "officially unofficial" product for Windows users..it's just fishy!

I think the hardware and the software differences between Macs and Wintel boxes work in tandem to make a Mac, a Mac. Some people buy Apple products for their award winning, sleek design. Others buy it for the stable, well designed OS. Some (myself included) buy for both reasons. Note, this is a drastic simplification..but I'm hoping to drive home the point- its a symbiotic relationship!

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Well.. since the move to x86 architecture.. there've been people struggling to put Windows on it, and they succeeded, and then Apple swooped in (and undoubtedly stole the idea/process) and released the beta that is BootCamp with a couple bells and whistles. I don't think it's really all that fishy. I think it's the best way to try and "control" the situation at hand.

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Hello,

I like the idea of virtualization: give me a window with Windoze on it, and all the meyhem can occur inside of it, and leave the filesystem things to OS X.

I need to do more research on things like VMware and Xen. That might be the next step.

I purchased a computer to do things for me, and with OS X, it is so damn exciting and pleasent to do things in. With Fink, I have Gnome and KDE apps working. OpenOffice. Gimp. I am not stuck in a Windows only paradigm. I love it. There are times, however, that I wish OS X was based on Linux instead of BSD. I suppose there are perks to using the Big Stable Distro.

Now, I just need to find an open-source CAD program that behaves like ClarisCAD...

Christian

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Sorry if this seems like I'm hijacking this thread, but is it possible the other way round -- Running MacOS on a PC? That'd give us Windows users a taste of what the Mac is all about...

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Sorry if this seems like I'm hijacking this thread, but is it possible the other way round -- Running MacOS on a PC? That'd give us Windows users a taste of what the Mac is all about...

Not legally.

There were some kernel hacks that allowed 10.4.2 to be installed on a PC, but a "modern version" of OS X isn't installable on a regular "non-apple branded" PC.

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I know this isn't quite what you're looking for:
http://pearpc.sourceforge.net
Note that this is a "gray" area of the law. Apple forbids any product or machine running Mac OS software without Apple's authorization.

>There were some kernel hacks that allowed 10.4.2 to be installed on a PC, but a "modern version" of OS X isn't installable on a regular "non-apple branded" PC.

Apple has been suing (I'm not sure if they're still suing) the OSx86 project for publishing hacks for getting Mac OS X running natively on a PC. However, as yellow said, it was an old kernel version from the developer boxes (which actually had BIOS, not EFI).

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by the way dani, there are desktop macs with intel chips

the new (whatever the power user version of a mac is) has an intel Xenon

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Howzit Dani,

I've used a program called iEmulator on my Mac Mini and iBook (They're G4's). It cost me about $23.00 but the programs works and they have great customer support. They recommend using Win 98 and 2000 to get good results .. but XP can be run on it also. I've been using it for a year now to run education programs that only run on 98 for my classrooms. I was talking one of the programmers an the next version will address USB .. It's alot cheaper than virtual PC. Education budgets, especially environmental/park budgets for computers are shrinking by the minute.

Boot Camp and Parallel are pretty much for the new intel macs.

Me Ke Aloha
Junyah

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I think this is the right step for apple. now you can put a mac up against a PC to see the differences and they avoid more problems by publishing a version of it. in responce to goldeagle2005 I can easily see microsoft veleasing a VirtualPC just for that after getting Vista out

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I have a MacBook Pro that is intel and is really the slowest computer i have had in the past couple years. I use a program called Parallels. i run xp on that it is way.....way.......way faster than osx. Parallels is an awsome product.

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I have a MacBook Pro that is intel and is really the slowest computer i have had in the past couple years. I use a program called Parallels. i run xp on that it is way.....way.......way faster than osx. Parallels is an awsome product.

I don't know about that. Parallels is emulating Windows XP, while OS X runs natively. On my MacBook OS X is way faster than Parallels or VMWare, although it could partly be due the fact that my RAM is quite low (only 512 MB).

Perhaps you're running a lot of older OS X programs? The older programs are most likely compiled and optimized for the PowerPC chip, which was previously used in Macs. Without a universal binary of a program, Rosetta is neeeded and the speed is 50% slower. There's not much you can do about them, other than looking for a universal version from the creator's website.

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Wyky97 and Joe,

I run the latest version of parallel ... and what sold me about it was the abiltiy to switch and not reboot. I saw it work for the first time in Sept/Oct on a macbook pro... the person was using it in a doctors office... He let me try it and I was sold..I really din't notice the speed varialble. ... but I'm kinda slow anyway. I was kinda on the fence about boot camp and VM .. but I risked it and thanksgiving week we got it. We only have it on the macbook pro and not the iMac 24" We're running the imac just solely as an OS X Machine for mulitimedia production. Both machines have 2 gigs.


I tried a little "real time" experiment for work to test out parallels on the Macbook Pro. I tried to run Protools, Fruity loops Cakewalk and Musix Audio Studio( All music Programs .. I didn't notice too much speed problems with the programs ... and my playback and monitoring latencies were fair... I tried alot of things like switching sound processing modes..playing live and processing a guitar.uke but it held out. Then I switched to the music programs I had running in OS X .. no Probs.

I then tested a USB and Bluetooth Delorome and Delorme 2007 Map Program and TOPO and I got into my truck and cruized my park.. I could notice a fraction of slowdown and that might have been becase there are parts of my park where i don't get GPS signal.. but the programs still worked fast.

I was pushing my luck with Arcview and Pathfinder GIS and trimble Explorer GPS ...I did some in field stuff with it. Not too bad .. a tiny bit of slow down .. but fast..

I took one of my chiefs with me on the experiments and they approved budgets for two mac book pros, parallel software, and delorme and route 66 gps software and delorme gps units .... With a little tweaking of the office eauipment, educations and training budgets thats all we could get They wouldn't budget for games or music software for me ... bersides I have the macs in my bands studio to play with. I could see getting a little disracted at work.

At home I'm still running my hawaiian "Two Slippah System" Mac Mini G4 and HP a1012u and a KVM ...OS x and Windows XP.. and "One Slippah System" I still got the ibook running OX X and iemulator/Win 98. I get spoiled using the New macs at work and the studio .. But I'll probably keep the G4's till they die or get the smallest mac book in 2yrs.

To Make a long story even longer. ... I kinda like parallel. ;o)

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does virtual pc cost money for macs?
its free for windows users (well the newest one isnt free for me as im not 18 and dont have xp pro grrrrrr)

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does virtual pc cost money for macs?
its free for windows users (well the newest one isnt free for me as im not 18 and dont have xp pro grrrrrr)

Virtual PC is outdated - there's no support for the Intel Macs, and if you believe Microsoft, there never will be. They discontinued Virtual PC for Macs a while back, and so now you'll have to use Parallels, or the upcoming VMWare Fusion.

Just for the record: Virtual PC for Macs was never free, although one advantage it offered over other commercial emulators for Mac was that it came with a copy of Windows XP, something that neither Parallels nor VMWare provides.

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jb .. I use parallels because If you use boot camp and your if in os you have to reboot into xp and visa versa. In parallel I can run my xp aplication in OS and switch back to what I'm using in OS ...

Boot Camp is free .. but Parallel was on a limited sale for about 49.99 or 59.99 ... you can get it for a bout 65-85 online. And I already had a Legal XP pro disk. So I'm liking it for what I do at home and work.


I just use the xp side for a couple of programs and I'm not a gamer .. I'm a surfer and paddler (even in th e winter) so I use my Organic CPU and body parts ... Iwish there was boot camp for my brain so I can boot into left or right side but ever since I had my stroke Its like running a fast chip, ram with a glitch and slow audio software and robotics .. but I manage and my brains CPU is rewiring/formatting and its syncing with my body a little smoother and faster. I think I'm running a version of OEM Junyah OS that just got patched and upgraded a year ago and I'm dual booting into right left and healing OS I think I'm using a version of Parallel or VM in my brain to bypass the damage the stoke caused. its a tiny bit slow .. but it works fine for the good stuff. brrr ..Its cold :) but Its gonna be a great year!

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you had a stroke? im sorry about that

didnt realise bootcamp was more a dual boot thing than a VM (never used macs really..) is it possible to get WINE for macs, that would be useful..?

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is it possible to get WINE for macs, that would be useful..?

Sounds like a wonderful idea, so when the addition of Intel-based Macs came out, developers created the Wine-wrapper program Darwine.

Unless I missed something huge, it's not very good at all - originally I had this problem, and I thought the lack of truetype fonts was what prevented me from running my applications. However, I did manage to find a hack that fixed this issue, and even then I couldn't run most applications - about the best I could do was run Notepad and Minesweeper; couldn't even get Firefox running.

Too bad, because it seemed like such a nice idea...

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Thanks Jb - I consider myself lucky cuz i'm rrecovering well ... I also use wine on an old P3 Notebook at work .. with Edubuntu (A Version of ubuntu for Teachers and the Education Commuity)

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Jb .. youre so right .. I have the prek to grade 4 from 2-5pm. I put the prek - 1st on the edubuntu and the rest on the apples and pcs. I got the all kiddie fortified : rubber keyboard overlays, plexiglass display protectors and custom made disk and port protectors. I usually start with a hike and activity and then they get to do something on the computers ... you know I wear them out first so they don't wear out the computers. :)

My staff is fighting over the new computer ... intel iMac w/ parallel and XP ... We won't get another one till about may .. i'll try the boot camp on that..

Hey Joe and Jb has anyone here tried to run Vista with bootcamp on an intel mac? I'm curious to see if and how it works on the macs?

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Hey Joe and Jb has anyone here tried to run Vista with bootcamp on an intel mac? I'm curious to see if and how it works on the macs?

Well, I know for a fact that Vista does run on Intel Macs... I saw it run on one before Boot Camp was released using a hack similar to the one WindowsOnMac.net used to install XP on Intel Macs.

*googles it*

It didn't quite before August (which is sort of what I thought), but since then the Vista builds have been Boot Camp-friendly.
Linky

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Thanks Joe ... as aloways for the great info .. We'll try it in March or may when the new computers come in ... I'm crossing my fingers cuz I budgeted for a few ... so I should get at least 1 and I requested for march so i should at least get it in may... You see "old dogs can learn new tricks"

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