[quote=Dave Sinkula;404679]Did you ever hear of [I]people[/I] dying due to overexposure of second-hand tobacco smoke?[/quote]

Yes, we've proven that, remember?

[quote=hamada_1990;404614]westsiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiide loool people i don't know what you guys have against smoking peopl and i was lying about me being a smoker but 7/8 of my friends mixed of boys and girls are smokers and i don't mind i am a second hand smoker since i was 12 and i got nothing wrong with me so i think these doctors are bunch of liars[/quote]

1) What's with westside? 2) This thread has already proven that second hand smoke is harmful. 3) I doubt you know more on the topic than the doctors. 4) Why would doctors be lying? If anything they would tell you to smoke so you have to go to them later and they can help with the damages made to your body, fattening their paychecks.

I'm sick of the analogies. On both arguments. Because analogies aren't always accurate and are rarely 100% equal to the argument being made.

joshSCH commented: Indeed +17
Aia commented: analogies != argument +6

This thread's still alive? I thought you all quit smoking already.

[quote=~s.o.s~;397006]> There's a reason you can't smoke in schools and hospitals. Can you guess why?
Comparing the effects of smoke on people who are fighting against death and normal people doesn't make sense. Second hand smoking is bad, but so is the smoke from vehicles, the minute spores floating, the dirt, the pollen grains etc.

And BTW, its not only smoking but also any other thing which would make the patients uncomfortable is not allowed in hospitals, so picking out smoking from all the things which are [I]not allowed [/I]would be a moot point.[/quote]

Smoking is easy to prohibit in schools. Other things are not. Smoke from vehicles: they usually don't operate within the school. Minute spores floating: nothing you can do. Dirt: Keep the classroom clean. Pollen grains: Close the window. Plenty of reasons were already given for why smoking isn't allowed in a hospital.

There's a reason you can't smoke in schools and hospitals. Can you guess why? And I'd love for you to explain to me how smoking is not a self-provoked death? It is the number one preventable cause of death in the United States. And you obiously didn't understand my analogy, so let's not even continue with it.

Oh, what hospital does your mom work at? Maybe they know each other.

[quote=Squires;396194]I did click on the smoking thread, didin't I? :p

Just because the CIA doesen't make laws does not mean they are not corrupt or that they have the best interest of Americans in mind. IMO, they have done a pretty crappy job. They are wrong on almost everything.

Back to smoking, the Cleveland Clinic is no longer hiring smokers:
[URL]http://www.dispatch.com/dispatch/content/local_news/stories/2007/06/28/clinic_smokers.html?jrl=268508&rfr=nwsl&clk=131315[/URL][/quote]

Really? I haven't looked at the link yet, but my mom works at the Cleveland Clinic and she smokes.

That's because when they are right, you don't know about it.

I don't know about the secret service. But I J.F.K. talked about dismantling the C.I.A. I'll start a new thread on it.

The thing is, his assassination wasn't necessary to protect the citizens. It was necessary for the CIA to remain a part of the in existence as part of the bureaucracy.

Personally, I think the CIA does do things that violate our liberties and we even know about it. We just don't know it is the CIA's doing. For example I am one of those crazy theorists that thinks the CIA was involved in the assassination of John F. Kennedy (and likely Robert F. Kennedy as well).

[quote=hbk619;396060]>Do you even realize why I had made that statement in my previous post? If no, then you better read the previous posts before asking such [I]obvious [/I]questions.

Maybe the original poster (sk8?) finds smoking on the same "rudeness" level as masturbating. and yes i did read it.[/quote]

Heyyy, someone got it. Thanks. And I wasn't trying to be offensive if anyone took it that way.

Yeah, you're right. Thought it would be okay cause someone made a comment about it earlier in this thread.

Have you truly proven the hypothesis? Or has it only been 'proven' within a very narrow range of definition? Have you, as Dave's links tried to point out, accounted for all possible variables other than your original test variable? If not, your experimental tests are worthless.

Yes. I have. I don't see how it isn't indisputable that second hand smoke is harmful. I have my proof. If you want to challenge it, then do so, but provide it yourself. Until you can show me that second hand smoke is not harmful I will continue to believe, through these tested experiments, that it is.

put thousands of people out of work

Better than killing themselves.

Medically, it's not.

So smoking is not a self-provoked death?

Remember I have not even mentioned places like Hospitals and Schools

I hope you don't serioudly consider smoking at such places.

It's pure and simple discrimination !

That's a two way street.

The least you can do is allow us to smoke in the smoking areas of a restaurant in peace.

You know what? Maybe I like to masturbate. And rather than do that only on private property the least you can do is allow me to do it in a restaurant in peace.

[quote=joshSCH;395713]Science is nothing like religion. When the hell has science been used as an excuse to kill many people? Unlike what you think, the scientific community is not corrupt. There is no reason for [I]all[/I] scientists to unite together in order to manipulate scientific data.[/quote]

The Illuminati

[quote=Dave Sinkula;395709]Science, much like religion, can be abused in ways that will excuse killing vast numbers of people. If there is no skepticism, are you willing to be privy to supporting that potential result?[/quote]

I agree with that. And I think it has been demonstrated before.

[quote=Dave Sinkula;395705]How about the one under consideration currently, dubbed the "Fairness Doctrine", which could be viewed as silencing conservative talk radio?[/quote]

Yeah there are a lot of infringements on this freedom.

[quote=Dave Sinkula;395701]Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding

We have a winner.[/quote]

Wow, now I feel accomplished. I got an opponent in a debate to agree with me on something.

Can't argue with that (the truth of it, not the principle) but it has happened a lot.

an example of how the bill of rights has been stretched out of context.

Here's one. Freedom of speech. No law shall abridge this freedom. Yet there are alien and sedition acts (along with others) and cases such as Schenk v. United States where someone was found guilty for practicing this right from the Bill of Rights.

Heh, Dave must be proud of me for doing my research and providing evidence.

Dave, you claim that you are trying to get us to question ourselves, scientific data, and trying to get us to back ourselves up with evidence. After doing all of this you are still persistent. I fail to see your goal and I fail to see that you will ever reach this goal. It seems less that you disagree with us than you are trying to have us do the things stated above.

Dave Sinkula commented: Bingo. Have an open mind. Question information with reference to the source. Be a thinking person, not a tool. +13

Isn't that the nature of science? Present a hypothesis, test it, find flaws, refine it, retest, ...?

OR present a hypothesis, test it, prove it, and hear criticism from Dave Sinkula.

Do you get different answers for calculating, say, velocity?

Yes, read up on quantum physics.

Here is a very ligitimate website that includes professors and doctors. In it is information (involving more studies) that show how harmful second hand smoke can be.

[URL]http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.netwellness.org/healthtopics/smoking/cloggedartery.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.netwellness.org/healthtopics/smoking/shsmokeadults.cfm&h=224&w=225&sz=53&hl=en&start=20&tbnid=Drqr1rSgcTFj_M:&tbnh=108&tbnw=108&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsecond%2Bhand%2Bsmoke%2Blung%26gbv%3D2%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den[/URL]

Breathing second hand smoke at home or at work increases your chances of developing lung cancer by 20% to 30%.

"[I]Smoking causes 90% of all cancers. It is a major cause of throat cancer, stroke, coronary heart disease and erectile dysfunction,” says Dr Kuppusamy Iyawoo, Head of the Institute of Respiratory Medicine.
“Smoking is also dangerous to family and friends. About 75% of cigarette smoke is released into the environment as second-hand smoke, which increases the risk of lung cancer,” he adds[/I]

Studies have been done and experiments that prove some of the effects of second hand smoke. That is the definition of proof. If you want to deny that then you will lose your own credibility. Deny it only if you can disprove it yourself. But the studies have been done and it has been shown that there are negative effects of second hand smoke. From now on declare it proven and stop asking us to prove it anymore. Before you do, try to prove to us that second hand smoke is not harmful. I could go to more websites and find more proof if I wanted but I don't feel like wasting my time.

[quote=Dave Sinkula;395283]We are so close now, I failed to see the humor long ago. Why is everyone always clamoring for more?

[edit]Conversely: what [I]more[/I] socialism do you want?[/quote]

Bush is never ever going to let us go anywhere near socialism. We aren't close now anymore than we were in the past two hundred thirty years.

[URL]http://www.gasp.org/ETS2005.html[/URL]

You asked for it. Here's a little proof.

"[COLOR=green]A recent[/COLOR] landmark experiment in healthy young nonsmokers revealed that [B]a mere [URL="