thanks. i'll go check it out. will get back to you hopefully soon. thanks again.

thanks to you too. it seems you were on the right track.


I am not sure if you are right.

the javac command compiles it. the java command starts the virtual machine, load the specified class and invoke function main. in other words its the same as clicking a program icon on the start menu.

Ravenous Wolf 23 Junior Poster


Can anyone please tell me whether I can write a java program and start it in a way other that involves the command line? And not applets either.

I want to start writting all of our company software in java, leaving behind c#. But the problem is I can only run java programs from the command line using the java command. End users will not like this.

Is there anyway to make java programs more user friendly By providing a shortcut on the desktop and adding it to the start menu.

Thanks in advance
Rav Wolf

what point? that i did not know what noaa was? did you not read me telling jwentig that i am not american? how in the name of the devil are non-americans on this planet supposed to know what noaa is? granted some do know but you do of course realise that most of us dont. i did not even know what the abreviation stands for.

anyway. i have found their website and i am going to take a look at them. will be back to you shortly after that.

as for the temperature cooling... i will have to take a look at that as well. maybe you would be so kind as to tell me how you have came to that conclusion.

@ zeroth

obviously you havent taken a good look at your own graph or else you would have seen the very point that environmentalists are trying to make. the point is that higher levels of CO2 will lead to higher temperatures. did you see the co-relation?

something else that you have missed.

the sharpest rise in CO2 which lead to the sharpest rise in temperature(some say it is the other way around but they cant say why they are saying that... in fact your graph clearly shows that rising temperatures lags behind rising CO2 levels!) took part over a period of 25 thousand years. currently we are experiencing that kind of rise but instead of thousands of years we are talking about hundreds of years. that is what has environmentalists worried. not al gore.

with humans releasing tons of CO2 in the atmosphere that rate at which CO2 are rising is what has us worried.

also you seems to forget that even though nature too has CO2 emmisions they are not even a hundredth of what humans are emitting. a simple search of wikipedia will show you how much CO2 vulcanoes emits vs how much humans emits. that CO2 that mother nature release can be removed from the atmosphere by various means(did you notice the subsiding levels following the sharp release 150 000 years ago). the same is not true for humans since each day we have more cars and coal fired power stations.

i am sure that you have ...

The Al Gore CO2 alarmists don't know everything. Consider this report on unexpected carbon uptake in desert areas

good article. i must admit that i myself did not know about deserts absorbing CO2. two things however.

First. much research must still be done on this. We need to know where the CO2 is going. whether we can be sure that it will go there permanently. and how it goes there. especially the last point. if we can figure out the how and the why then perhaps chemical engineers can replicate the process in some other way.


it is not exactly the thing that will end the CO2 build up. as you can see in the article itself and by looking at a CO2 build up graph. it just does not absorb enough.


logically flawed
really? how do you know that. have you got a degree in philosophy or something or is this just your own conjecture

one year how can they predict 100 years

this truly shows your ignorance. clearly you have not heard of chaos theory even though it has been with us for some decades now.

most of the world will not take aprt in the action

this is one place where we agree. it helps nothing if the developed world takes action on its own. but that does not justify taking a "china does not do anything so it does not exist" mindset.

there are many ways in which action can be taken. the easiest that comes to mind is simple trade restrictions. i am sure that if the citizens of any country insists that their politicians do something about global warming then they will have little problem not buying something that caused masive amounts of CO2 to be released in the atmosphere. unless of course they are uninformed or just plain greedy for the cheap bargain. most of these developing countries focus on export heavily so refusing to buy their stuff if it was not produced in an environmentally friendly way is one way of forcing them to take action too.

the point is not to point fingers like a bunch of school kids but taking responsibility together.


better informed than you are

really? i have read much of what you had to say on this ...

Ravenous Wolf 23 Junior Poster


can someone please explain to me how to install a software application in linux?

i have a cd with asterix on it. i am reasonably sure that i would be able to install it once i have it on the harddrive(i attended an asterix course recently) but currently the asterix software is zipped and on a cd.

can anyone tell me how i move the program from the cd to a directory called usr/src and unzip it? unfortuanately the course included the bare minimum amount of linux and i simply dont know how to access the cd drive.

linux doesnt apear to have any drive names as in windows. and even once i have the cd drive how do i specify the hard drive?


yield further estrangement....

i find this a bit strange. and at the risk of "yielding some estrangement" myself i have to ask what you are trying to say.

if she was kicked off for no reason does she not have the right to find out what was going on?

I second all of those who said let the past stay in the past. perhaps some mistake was made. perhaps someone had a grudge and now it is in the past. forgetting it for that reason would be wise.

but i cannot possibly second this what you are saying since it seems as if you are suggesting that we accept whatever treatment and like it no matter what.


And it's been going to the poles, where both the arctic and Antarctic icepacks are growing rapidly.

i sincerely hope you are being sarcastic. because the alternative.... well lets just say that i have made a decision to show people more respect so if you were being serious i will have to ignore that remark .

thanks guys.

this is the answer i needed. i had to make sure since somebody somewhere and somehow convinced my boss that php is the new heaven on pc so i am stuck with trying to force it to fit into various square holes.

sorry. basically can one use php in the place of javascript without having to install php or a web server on the client.

Ravenous Wolf 23 Junior Poster

i would like to know if php can replace javascript as a client side script.

one can use javascript to do all kinds of things like computing values in textboxes and check them for errors and so on. is it possible to use php in its stead?

lets say i want to make the client interactive without it having to go back to the server for each button pressed can i use php instead of javascript? and can i use it without first having to install a web server and php on the client because such a thing would of course be impractical for a project where the client can be somewhere in some internet cafe.

i suppose the question can be summed up in: are web browsers able to use either php or javascript for client side scripting without making any kind of fuss about it needing a web server or an installation of php or anything? this is of course if i only want to learn or use php and not both php and javascript but without me having to go to each internet cafe on earth and installing php on it.

thanks a lot. really appreciate your help. will ask that other question in the php forum.

thanks for the reply but some things are still unclear.

question 1. i mean if i want to not use javascript can i instead use php as a client side scripting to solve the problem of calculations etc and if i can do that must i first install the php on the client? i know that if php sends a response the browser will understand the response. what i mean is can the browser be made to process locally with php without sending back to the server or must i use javascript for the client side. if i can can use php like this must i first install it on the client?

question 3.

here i mean if there are some processes, perhaps a class with some fuctions, that i want to execute on the server then can i place a button on the form and when i press that button can it serve as a trigger to instantiate the class and execute the class's function?

Ravenous Wolf 23 Junior Poster


I dont know where to put this post since it covers so many areas.

I have a few queries and i would appreciate it if you guys can help me out.

I am to create a web based application which will need some access to a database. The web page which functions as a user interface will have some 600 text boxes on it.

Here is what i was thinking. php on the server which interact with the mysql database. javascript in the webpage to do all the validation and calculations.


  1. can one get client side php and if you can do you also need to install php on the client computer is the browser already php client side scripting enabled as it is for javascript?

  2. can javascript be used to calculate vulues from text boxes in the form on the html document before the form info is send to the server?

  3. can i press some button somewhere on the form which will result in php or even java processing being done on the server?

  4. can i create an array of text boxes on the webpage, same as in java or vb 6, so that i can use a for loop to process the 600 text boxes and then process them with javascript?

i would really appreciate it if you guys can help me on this. thanks.

can i append a question to this? I dont think I am hijacking and it would be better to append the question here rather than start a whole new thread.

Is there a version of linux that is really fast, can do a great variety of software like chess, wordprocessing, databases, java web browser and so on in a GUI but is still reasonably hardcore enough to teach one some linux(i mean not do things via a GUI but in the CLI. Of course the software should run in a window once opened.)

sorry if this sounds like a stupid question. but i am new to linux. very new.

[QUOTE=lasher511;390678]Actually alot of the arguments made were against alot of the reasoning that scientists or other people for that matter have made as an argument for global warming.

This is simply a discussion and i really do not see any point in having to post evidence that one particular person (or a group) have acctually said these things. But what what i can see he made alot of good points against alot of the key reasonings behind global warming.[/QUOTE]
wrong. He did not even state the key reasoning behind global warming. He talked about ice and whatever else.

The idea behind green house gasses is that the earth is warmed by the solar radiation of the sun and that radiation escapes at night.

The presence of greenhouse gasses keeps that heat energy trapped on earth so that the average earth temperatre does not stay stable but rise.

He did not give any evidence or even conjecture on what scientists says about that and how their logic about saying that is wrong.

[QUOTE=joshSCH;390650]Hmm.. I believe you are forgetting one thing.. Scientists are more intelligent than you. The logic you propose is not exactly what scientists are saying.. all you have basically done is state something, and then refute it. You have given no evidence whatsoever that this is what the scientists claim. Sure, some of it is political.. and some people have used faulty logic is in your examples.. However, scientists use [I]science[/I] and [I]logic[/I]. You are not a scientist. Scientists are professionals.. they have performed many experiments before, and will continue to do so.. If any scientist was caught claiming some of the illogical points that you have made, do you not think they would have been fired?

Next time prove that the logic you are using in your examples is actually the same logic that scientists use in claiming the existence of the global warming effect.[/QUOTE]
you know josch i dont know how you are going to take this but here goes.

I dont really like you and we dont really see eye to eye on most issues.

But I really like the way in which you think.

luckily i used to play chess so i can just sit still and concentrate. Although i must say that i, too, think better when i pace up and down.
I think it is better to sit when you work on code because then you can draw or write as the ideas occur to you.

As for dealing with stress, I can only think of deep breathing and relaxing the muscles of the midsection, hips and thighs. The muscles of the rest of the body tends to follow by themselves and when the muscles of the body relax the brain relax too. That is when I think best.

i cant see the whole nude coding thing. first of all it is too much effort taking of your close just to code. and then you remember to go get something from the shop? or someone knocks on the door? second it would be too cold. and honestly. Does it really make a difference?

@ grimjack

best not to go there.

dont worry. i wont. it would lead to "my nation is better than your nation" arguments which, i am sure, everyone wants to avoid. take note. i am neither israeli nor do i believe in God. It is just interesting what God tried to do.

actually they didn't. educated people were used to great effect....

very well put. i dont see any proof of that but it sure is believable. look at the war and you will see that german technology was reasonably ahead of everyone else's. They just did not have the economy(and here i include labour force as well as quantity of educated labour in all of its forms) to back it up. point in case. the meschersmit 262 was way more advanced than the pd 51 mustang(aircraft used in air combat) but there was just simply to many pd 51 mustangs. it was never outclassed but always outnumbered. same goes for machine gun and tanks too. and of course the german army was lead by a fool who acted like a rabbit in a tar pit.

sorry that i did not get back to you on the grain fed thing. i just finished my murder oriented project and am now too lazy to look into it. but there is a chance that it will come up again somewhere in the future.

i am not so sure. post war western germany held one of the most educated and intelligent populations of the world. west germany's economy was one of the very best. either you are wrong by saying that they killed their best via war because they did not like them or Grimjack is wrong by saying war kills the best.

also consider how USA imported the best of nazi germany scientists and engineers. guys like werner von braun for example.

if you look at east germany however. and how it lags even to this day then i have to say that war makes not that much of a difference to the genepool.

i think that war can kill such a large section and so much support structure that the best dna just dont get expressed in technology or economy or something or athlethes or whatever. in that regard it is like reaper. it cuts down indiscriminately and although it kills the future inventer of cold fusion it also kills the future idiot who will start world war three.

i dont really get eugenics. is it the same as breeding a species, selecting organisms with traits that we desire and allow only those to breed?

or is it more like crossing one breed with another so that in time a new and better variation of a species come into existence.

If it is the latter than eugenics is idiocity. Because you will never know what recessive dna is hidden and not seen in the organism until it reapears some couple of generations later.

kind of obvious when we consider mendel. even darwin said that it is impossible to create a new species by crossing two existing ones and that was before we know, through genetics, that dna of father and mother stays seperate. except in chiasmata.

point is just. eugenics is really stupid.

interesting enough though one must look at what God did in the bible when he created the nation of israel. some may say that was eugenics. but i am sure it was more like an attempt at breeding. he continuously prevented the descendents of abraham from marrying any but abraham's one people. one reason why essau was so unfavoured. he could not leave the hititi girls alone.

of course i doubt if God really exists. But that whole creation of the israel nation is interesting to say the least.

it is precisely with o' reily, amongst others, that i have a problem. many of the reviewers openly critisize o' reily for publishing such error ridden books, saying that o' reily does not do justice their own name. i have one o'reily book. the uml in a nutshell and i cant complain. that is why i went straight for o'reily. but i also read the reviews.

to be fair the point of errors in the books was not limited to o'reily. but that is precisely the problem. the php books are said to have errors in the example code.

i learned most of my programming from deitel books and i am kind of used to typing a program example and it works just as they say it would. but deitel does not have any php books.

one more point. many reviewers say of many books that it would have been cheaper or better to just stick to online websites, manuals etc. i can learn like that but books make things so much easier. but that also just proves the point. if you can save your money and your time by going for online manuals than it would mean that any language with reliable books would be better.


like i said i am not advocating any of these three for the simple reason that i know none of them. so if the python/perl girls and boys are just fans then i can asure you that i am not one of ...

@ narue
sorry. i dont get that. looks alone cant say you are blond or not. or perhaps he was just kidding. I get the impression that everybody thinks the mighty narue is so intelligent(no offense intended in case you take some) and that it is not possible for a blond to have that kind of IQ. Of course i have been in close contact with three blonds so far and none of them has struck me as dumb. In fact there is this black head i currently knows who sometimes makes me wonder if IQ isnt wasted on women when they start worrying about their figure. They worry about the weirdest stuff and would believe any lie no matter how much scientific evidence there is against it.

@ jbennet
i also think brown is cool but only when it goes with green eyes. in fact i have more to say about the eyes than the hair.

@steven woodsman
true. but do you know how easy it is to upset them? the worst part is not that you do not realise that you have upset them, although that can be a factor at times, but that you never realise how insignificant the little thing is that is going to set them off.

[QUOTE=Narue;591831]>I think im just going to go with the real pic of myself as a personal touch.
Rashakil Fol did that and I called him a serial killer. I showed Dave Sinkula my picture and he tried to convince me that I don't really have blonde hair... Real pictures are nothing but trouble. By the way, I think you'd look hotter without the face fur.[/QUOTE]
now that is really interesting. I knew this blond from a few years back and i remember that she had this really dark brown eyes.

Now that is the best thing that would lead me to say someone is not a real blond since both the blond hair and blue eyes are caused by a recesive gene that causes low levels of melanine. but she was in fact a real blond.

so what evidence, precisely, did he use to accuse you of not being a real blond since i can think of no thing more damning against blond hair than it not going with very light coloured(e.g. or perhaps i should say i.e. blue) eyes.

just out of curiosity. i am drawn to puzzles like a moth to a flame and i would really like to know the basis of his reasoning.

Ravenous Wolf 23 Junior Poster

I suppose that this is the wrong place to voice critique of php but does the lack of good php books not make php a bit of a nightmare. i have been on amazon and all the books have a review or two which says something about typos or misleading naming or something like that. of course many books have some good reviews and almost all books have a bad review or two but in the case of php it is extremely severe.

in fact i am about to recomend to my boss that it would be better to go with Perl or python because both of them can be used with lamp in the stead of PHP.

Now understand I am not attacking PHP. All i am asking is whether or not the lack of good books should not be sufficient reason for someone to steer clear of PHP and rather gio for Perl or python or is there some specific reason why PHP is prefered over Perl or python.

Note. The fact that perl and python is said to be more difficult is no problem for me. In fact I would think that the fact that there are good books on Perl and Python should cancel out the greater difficulty of those languages and even out the learning curve so that both should be about equal.

@ grimjack

i shall answer later but for now i am only going to say the following:

when i said economic i meant you make more money for each dollar of expense if you grainfed.

shall talk to you later.


i am not sure what you are trying to say. are you saying that evolution cannot happen because of the hundreds of animals that has to die each epoch to keep evolution going?

if so then you are way wrong. just read the origin of species by charles darwin and you will understand. you dont even need to read all of it. just the first four or so chapters.

besides. whole species have died out. we have the skeletal remains to prove it.

and lastly god may not be malicious but he is as merciless as mother nature. look in the old testament how he sanctioned the whole scale extermination of not only families but also whole nations. and he said to include the women and children too.

on a more positive note. i like your quote. i have been applying the principle in my own life for quite some time now. but ironically enough mostly against people who say that evolution is wrong without understanding an inch of what evolution is about. not that all religious people are fools. but some of them are really deliberate. they argue something like this:
i dont know what you are talking about. i did not have biology as a subject at school. i dont have the time, inclination, intelligence etc to understand evolution. but i know that you are wrong and nothing can make me even look at anything other than the bible.

kinds of reminds of the church refusing to ...

vegaseat commented: some very good points +8


goats can....also look up overstocking

when i say herbivores i am of course refering to natural ecosystems. i know that if an idiot want to let a million sheep eat grass which was meant for a hundred then only disaster awaits.

here in south africa we see it often. we have something called affirmative actions which basically aims to transfer wealth to the non-european people since they were severely deprived during the racial segregation years. and that often takes the form of giving them farming land. problem is the white have been sent to tertiary education where they learn how to use the land. the non whites have not. the results are disasters of all sorts including that overgrazing thing.

on a similar note. that is one thing that impress me about the americans. they have realized that natural ecosystems cannot effectively support livestock. so they are planting stacks and stacks of maize and feed them to the cattle.

good thinking. a better quality animal is produced with less problems and if you look at it; more economically as well.