2012, the End of the World? - Page 5

Put this in your local paper, and see what happens...
"Wanted - psychic. You know who to call".

:D :D

Put this in your local paper, and see what happens...
"Wanted - psychic. You know who to call".

Heh, would really freak you out if someone called though :)

In the 8th century AD, it predicted that "..white skinned bearded gods would arrive from across the sea on march 5, 1519." On that precise date, Cortez and his conquistadors arrived in the new world.

Well this prediction was wrong in one major point, the folks that came were no gods, but slaughtered many of the inhabitants for a few shiploads full of gold.

Hey, I never said I believed it was true prophecy. In fact, as an atheist and a skeptic I bet 2012 will be like any other year. The notion of the end of the world in my lifetime is exciting, though :)

It's doubtful anything out of the ordinary will happen on this prophetic day, but not impossible...

The other evening I was visiting my great grandpapa in the old folks home. The TV was running, and we both got captivated by a program on the History channel. It talked about the Mayan calendar and that it abruptly ends in 2012. The winter solstice to be exact.

That is the time when several mayor celestial bodies align in an unusual concert. Some astronomers say that it might trigger a shift of the earth's magnetic poles, a change in the core rotation, associated with major earthquakes and gigantic vulcanic erruptions.

Has anyone else seen this program or read about the event?

Regarding the end of the world,it is interesting that in the Catholic religion, there are firm indications that we are either in the reign of the last or second last pope of Rome. In the Garabandal prophecies, there is a very strong indication that mankind is going to suffer a major,if not conclusive catastrophy in a short period of years, possibly around 2012. Can anybody seriously suggest that with all the evil there is in the world,that God could stand idly by forever, especially considering the fact that he sent his only son to earth a mere 2000 years ago to redeem and save mankind by sacrificing himself on the cross? Leaving aside the huge numbers of unbelievers, there is an absolutely huge number of people within many religions who believe that there is a God, that we are not on this earth by accident and that there had to be a creator to the universe.
I am not by any means a religious fanatic, I am a sinner just like most of us, but in my saner moments when I think a little deeper about these matters, I really believe we have good reason to be afraid.
Mike

Why afraid?

Anxious maybe? But afraid?

It's daunting to consider that the end of the world is in our lifetime (I have long since accepted that notion), but if you do believe in God you shouldn't be afraid. Because that means there is existence for you even after this earth collapses into itself.
If I were an athiest I think I would be afraid. Because then after that my existence would just cease. Do you know how dizzy the thought of that makes me?

Did you worry about your non-existence before you were born?

When your time is up, choose one of the following sentences which sums up your life.
The world is a better place because you lived (he will be missed).
The world is a better place because you are now dead (good riddance).

> but if you do believe in God you shouldn't be afraid
Should you be afraid if you choose the wrong one?
I mean, a roulette table with several thousand squares, and you've got to risk it all on one square - man, I'd be bricking it.
Do gods still exist if there is no one to believe in them?

I'm going to make a guess that all the extinct religions (see, evolution applies to religions as well - who knew) are extinct because they foretold "the end", and in due course, absolutely nothing happened. Having played their last card, the acolytes lost their last grip on the populace.

The only thing I'm really worried about is the US electing another religious zealot who's first term in office will end in 2012. Propelled by prophecy, and the nukes to make it happen - not good.

"Reincarnation is making a come-back"

Now now, you completely missed my point.

I wasn't focusing on whether or not I, or anyone else, chose the right God.

What I was trying to say (and still am) is that as someone who truly believes in their religion and a better place after the destruction of earth, you would have nothing to fear about the end of the world, because well all other scenarios mean squash to you. Really, just think along that perspective.

Also I certainly did not think about my existence before I was born, but I do now. The thought that I would just stop existing would scare me, but that is not what I believe. It is because I believe that I would exist afterward in a better place, that the thought of having that taken away makes me sort of swoon. I'm not sure if you 100% understand that but that's just how I'm thinking about it.

Did you worry about your non-existence before you were born?

No. By definition, if I'm not there, then how would I be able to worry about it? And I'm not going to worry about my end either; I know the final score, even if others will immediately accuse me of being a fanatic for saying so.

When your time is up, choose one of the following sentences which sums up your life.
The world is a better place because you lived (he will be missed).
The world is a better place because you are now dead (good riddance).

Who's getting to speak? My friends and family, or those who hated me while I was alive? I'm not well-enough known, nor do I ever plan to be well enough known, that there will be neutral parties in that equation.

Should you be afraid if you choose the wrong one?
I mean, a roulette table with several thousand squares, and you've got to risk it all on one square - man, I'd be bricking it.
Do gods still exist if there is no one to believe in them?

Should you be afraid if you choose the wrong one? Given that all major religions proclaiming deities (Buddhism, if I recall correctly, doesn't properly have a 'deity', just a founder/leader/example) [note: example, not exhaustive list] tend to declare eternal damnation/destruction for those who don't follow, then yeah, I'd say you should be afraid. So pick wisely.

Do gods still exist if there is no one to believe in them?

If not, then did they ever exist in the first place? Anything real exists regardless of being believed in; anything unreal doesn't exist even if believed in.

I'm going to make a guess that all the extinct religions (see, evolution applies to religions as well - who knew) are extinct because they foretold "the end", and in due course, absolutely nothing happened. Having played their last card, the acolytes lost their last grip on the populace.

Not that likely; in many cases, I would suspect that an external competitor came in and won converts, either by persuasion or by force.

The only thing I'm really worried about is the US electing another religious zealot who's first term in office will end in 2012. Propelled by prophecy, and the nukes to make it happen - not good.

You mean a rehash of the arguments raised during the Reagan years? I believe that at one point, there were reporters actually trying to question him on his stance towards 'Nuclear Armaggedon' because of his faith.

"Reincarnation is making a come-back"

Bad pun. And I consider myself a collector of bad puns.

If I were an athiest I think I would be afraid. Because then after that my existence would just cease. Do you know how dizzy the thought of that makes me?

As an atheist, why should I fear the end of existence more than any other? Because I have no delusions of "something better" to look forward to after death? Should I regret the lack of what I feel are false hopes and mollifications? It can't be changed - being human is 100% fatal. You are going to die. Get used to it. If anything, you are obviously much more afraid than the atheist, as you cannot even think about facing the end of existence without a promise that something better awaits beyond it.

Live your life now as best you may. Do what is right for the sake of it being right, not just for marks on some after-death scorecard towards imagined rewards. If you look at the time you have on earth as all that you're going to get, you might just be more inclined to value it more and do something worthwhile with it. On the other hand, if you think of it as a waiting and evaluation period that you must endure to reach that "something better", you might just find yourself sorely disappointed if you are wrong.

So is the world ending then or what? ;)

So is the world ending then or what? ;)

Yes.
We just have to argue out the timetable. This might take awhile.

As an atheist, why should I fear the end of existence more than any other? Because I have no delusions of "something better" to look forward to after death?

How about because of the probable consequences if you have chosen incorrectly in this issue?

Should I regret the lack of what I feel are false hopes and mollifications? It can't be changed - being human is 100% fatal. You are going to die. Get used to it.

Should you regret the lack? Probably not; if you're wrong, you'll be regretting them enough in the end.

If anything, you are obviously much more afraid than the atheist, as you cannot even think about facing the end of existence without a promise that something better awaits beyond it.

Are you sure that's fear? I'd call it simply expectation, possibly eager expectation.

Live your life now as best you may. Do what is right for the sake of it being right, not just for marks on some after-death scorecard towards imagined rewards.

And how do you determine what is right in the first place? Pretty much every version of right/wrong I've seen stems from religious beliefs.

If you look at the time you have on earth as all that you're going to get, you might just be more inclined to value it more and do something worthwhile with it. On the other hand, if you think of it as a waiting and evaluation period that you must endure to reach that "something better", you might just find yourself sorely disappointed if you are wrong.

To your first part: James 2, specifically verses 17-26.

To your second part: I reflect your own words toward you. "You might just find yourself sorely disappointed if you are wrong."

How about because of the probable consequences if you have chosen incorrectly in this issue?

No different than the consequences if you have chosen incorrectly. I've made my peace with that.

Should you regret the lack? Probably not; if you're wrong, you'll be regretting them enough in the end.

If I get caught in a rain storm without an umbrella I will get wet and regret not having brought one. Should I never leave my house without an umbrella?
If I were to be struck by lightning in such a storm, certainly I would regret leaving my house to go out. Should I never leave my house for fear of a storm?
Of course not. We all make decisions weighing the risks as they are known to us. Given that I believe the risks you suggest are unfounded speculation, I can't see as how dwelling upon them is worth the time.

Are you sure that's fear? I'd call it simply expectation, possibly eager expectation.

Scru specifically said "Because then after that my existence would just cease. Do you know how dizzy the thought of that makes me?". To me, that sounds an awful lot like fear and it was his statement that I was addressing. It was not an empirical statement per se.

And how do you determine what is right in the first place? Pretty much every version of right/wrong I've seen stems from religious beliefs.

I do not believe that absence of religion precludes morality. Religion has been the basis for many prescriptions of morality, but it is not limited to such frameworks. These two essays discuss it much further than I have the time to if you care to read them:
http://www.spectacle.org/1095/moral.html
http://www.spectacle.org/1299/moral.html

To your first part: James 2, specifically verses 17-26.
To your second part: I reflect your own words toward you. "You might just find yourself sorely disappointed if you are wrong."

I did not state that religion teaches the "just wait and believe" part specifically, but some would seem to act as if it did. My advice was merely that one shouldn't neglect the value of their living time simply because they have expectations beyond death. Doing that is foolish regardless of ones beliefs about the hereafter.

EnderX, religious intolerance might cause the end of the world, but we are not quite there yet!

I still think it's the Antichrist that causes the end of the world as we know it! Remember, the Antichrist could be female.

Could be a major solar flare that blows away the earth's atmosphere. The sun is a pretty violent beast!

Could be ultra-high energy cosmic rays, sub-atomic matter that breaks free just before stars are gobbled up by the gravitational pull of black holes. A finding published in the journal Science by Alexander Kusenko, a professor of physics and astronomy at the University of California, Los Angeles. He worked on the study with physicists and astronomers from 17 countries.

"religious intolerance might cause the end of the world" I say remove the word 'intolerance' and change it to "Religion might cause the end of the world."

The world is not going to end in year 2012. However, there is a cool album titled "2112" by the band Rush.

Too bad they didn't call their album "2012"

I think most of us have discounted the year of the end, and are speculating what could cause it. Rather morbid, but also fun.

Their album could have been top seller, if they would have called it "2012" (2 birds with one shot!).

It has long been known that the Earth's magnetic poles shift and sometimes reverse (as metal bearing magma exudes from plate fractures and cools, the iron is magnetized by the magnetic forces; when the poles shift or reverse, it can be detected.) Prior to a pole shift the strength of the magnetic field that surrounds the earth lessens, goes to zero then strengthens. In geologic time, the change is a blink of the eye but in human terms, it is actually hundreds of years. Right now the magnetic field acts as a protective field that keeps much of the solar ratiation away from us (ie the Van Allen Radiation Belt - also often visible as the Aurora Boriales). Studies indicate that we appear to be entering an era of lessening The years without any magnetic protection may not sterilize the earth but we would all have the same tan

Here is a pointer to the NOVA show on the subject:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/magnetic/

no one can know the End of the world except God. Please do not confused ok!
"live as a man who is going to die tommorow,
work as a man who is going to live foreever"

God has no bearing on this matter becasue there is no proof he exists.

... no one can know the End of the world except God. Please do not confused ok!"

Does it say so in the Bible? If so, I missed it, sorry!

Does it say so in the Bible? If so, I missed it, sorry!

Well, even if it did, it would be irrelevant - so you needn't be sorry.

... no one can know the End of the world except God ...

Will that be the day HE considers the experiment failed and throws all of mankind into the trash?

He already did once, if you believe the Bible.

He already did once, if you believe the Bible.

Technically, not all of mankind.