Collins: Why this scientist believes in God - Page 2

The Bible is meant to be proven... why else was it written?

The Bible is meant to guide us through our daily lives. As a Roman Catholic, I'm taught that the Bible is only part of becoming closer to God (the other two parts are Prayer and community service). (From my religion) the Bible wasn't written to be proven (true or false; rather, it's a tool to get us closer to God.

Now yes, I know that you're probably not Catholic, but I'm simply stating my viewpoint.

"A theory is a scientific hypothesis that has been tested thousands of times, and has been proven true every single time."

Nope, completely wrong. NO theory has been proven true in every instance. Not even gravity (look up Born-Einstein Condensate if you don't believe me). And as you said yourself, theories cannot be proven.

Hm.. I have never heard of this 'Born-Einstein Condensate", but gravity is a scientific law, so I doubt there is anything that is contrary to it. Most theories have been proven true in scientific experiments, but are not yet laws b/c there have not been enough tests to know for sure. But come on, most scientists to believe in evolution. And it is possible to believe in evolution and be a christian

I understand the concept of natural selection. But just because you study something that might or might not be true... or if you observe something... you still make your own conclusions... so yes, what I said was just the simple form of that. He did study it and write essays about it... but it was still thoughts from his mind.

The Bible is meant to guide us through our daily lives. As a Roman Catholic, I'm taught that the Bible is only part of becoming closer to God (the other two parts are Prayer and community service). (From my religion) the Bible wasn't written to be proven (true or false; rather, it's a tool to get us closer to God.

Now yes, I know that you're probably not Catholic, but I'm simply stating my viewpoint.

That's not what I was trying to explain....

The Bible is meant to guide us through our daily lives. As a Roman Catholic, I'm taught that the Bible is only part of becoming closer to God (the other two parts are Prayer and community service). (From my religion) the Bible wasn't written to be proven (true or false; rather, it's a tool to get us closer to God.

Now yes, I know that you're probably not Catholic, but I'm simply stating my viewpoint.

Actually 'Stein, I was formerly Roman Catholic. My entire family is orthodox catholic, and I have recieved all sacrements that I should by my age. However, throughout school I began to question my beliefs.. mathematics, science, even history eventually led me to the conclusion that there is no god. Christianity is just another religion meant to make humans feel as if they have a purpose. You seem intelligent enough, so I just ask you to be open minded. I was once catholic, so I know where you're coming from.

Hm.. I have never heard of this 'Born-Einstein Condensate", but gravity is a scientific law, so I doubt there is anything that is contrary to it. Most theories have been proven true in scientific experiments, but are not yet laws b/c there have not been enough tests to know for sure. But come on, most scientists to believe in evolution. And it is possible to believe in evolution and be a christian

Wiki: "If a system is at such a low temperature that it is in the lowest energy state, it is no longer possible for it to reduce its energy, not even by friction. Without friction, the fluid will easily overcome gravity because of adhesion between the fluid and the container wall, and it will take up the most favorable position, all around the container."

There is no such thing as a scientific law.

"But come on, most scientists to believe in evolution."

Indeed, and I believe in evolution as well, but that doesn't make it simply true. Most people didn't believe in Einstein's Theory of Relativity when it was first introduced, but that doesn't make it incorrect.

"And it is possible to believe in evolution and be a christian"

Indeed. I am both a devout Roman Catholic and a believer in evolution.

I just don't like believing in something that says humans evolved from monkeys. But hey, that's my opinion, right?

So I have a question for you, if you are a Christian but you believe in evolution, what are your beliefs? Does that mean you don't believe in Creationism?

"But just because you study something that might or might not be true... or if you observe something..."

For all we know, the Bible is completely false. Under your reasoning, why isn't the Bible false, and the Quar'an (alternate spelling: Koran), or the Vedas (Hindu holy book) true?

"
That's not what I was trying to explain...."

I apologise.

"You seem intelligent enough, so I just ask you to be open minded. I was once catholic, so I know where you're coming from."

Haha why thank you. I myself have also doutbted the presece of God, and havn't always been a devout Catholic.

Open minded> I try my best. For the longest time, my beliefs have actually mirrored what your's appear to be. I'm simply asking both sides in this to keep personal beliefs to a minimum, and have a concise discussion, rather then a banter foddy. ;)

I have no doubt that we may have evolved as humans... though I do believe it started at creation. I'm sure people back then couldn't run as fast as us or jump as high, which proves at least moderate evolution... though I refuse to believe it to be the factor of life as we know it.

Actually, It is scientific FACT. All theories are pretty much fact, and almost every scientist will tell you that evolution is true. Even this man believes so. The entire genome project and DNA among many other things prove evolution. I have no time to explain it to a closed minded fool like you.. why don't you do a little research before you just start bashing scientific theories?

As for the bible, there are tons of lies throughout it. Have you even read it? As I mentioned before, the bible says the earth is about 6000 years old. However, it is actually about 4.5 BILLION years old. Scientists have discovered this through carbon dating and many other processes... And there are many more lies than this. Simply google it, and you will see.

No, Evolution is not a proven fact; a theory is not a series of proven theorums but only a series of tests (or observations) backed-up at times by successful, single experiments that may-or-may-not-be able to be repeated. How does this prove Evolution?

As to reading the Bible: most of the people in this discussion are Christians and yes, we read the Bible-- what is your point? Are you suggesting we use Google as a sort of reference for the Bible? :rolleyes::lol:

I just don't like believing in something that says humans evolved from monkeys. But hey, that's my opinion, right?

So I have a question for you, if you are a Christian but you believe in evolution, what are your beliefs? Does that mean you don't believe in Creationism?

I acutally don't like believing that we evolved from monkeys either, but this is our opinion. :)

Question> Before Pope John Paul II, he released a long statement promoting a new belief of God's Creation. According to the Pope, it is still OK to believe in evolution, as long as one still believes that the Universe itself was created by God (which I myself believe).

Wiki: "If a system is at such a low temperature that it is in the lowest energy state, it is no longer possible for it to reduce its energy, not even by friction. Without friction, the fluid will easily overcome gravity because of adhesion between the fluid and the container wall, and it will take up the most favorable position, all around the container."

Ah, but it is possible to "overcome gravity". Gravity still exists, it has simply been "overcome". Think about it, the gravitational constant on earth is 9.81 m/s^2. But if someone was traveling upward at an acceleration of 20 m/s^2, he would also be "overcoming gravity". Gravity has never been disproven. The relative acceleration of the person at 10.19 m/s^2 upward would still prove that gravity exists in a scientific experiment. Same is true for this 'Bose-Einstein_condensate'

another thought...

if what you say is in fact true josh, that the DNA copared to other species is only 2% difference.. then why wouldn't that lead you to believe that they were created by the same source?

:o My apologies.

I still hold the belief though, that theories can still be proven false in certain cases.

I acutally don't like believing that we evolved from monkeys either, but this is our opinion. :)

Question> Before Pope John Paul II, he released a long statement promoting a new belief of God's Creation. According to the Pope, it is still OK to believe in evolution, as long as one still believes that the Universe itself was created by God (which I myself believe).

I agree.
Although my opinion is a little different ... I do believe we have somewhat evolved from what we were in the beginning, but not to the extent of being a monkey. I believe that God created the universe with Adam and Eve as described in the Bible... but I also think that we have changed since then...

No, Evolution is not a proven fact; a theory is not a series of proven theorums but only a series of tests (or observations) backed-up at times by successful, single experiments that may-or-may-not-be able to be repeated. How does this prove Evolution?

As to reading the Bible: most of the people in this discussion are Christians and yes, we read the Bible-- what is your point? Are you suggesting we use Google as a sort of reference for the Bible? :rolleyes::lol:

I agree with MattyD :)

another thought...

if what you say is in fact true josh, that the DNA copared to other species is only 2% difference.. then why wouldn't that lead you to believe that they were created by the same source?

Created by the same source? Well, we all evolved from one organism.. And about what you said earlier, how can you believe in microevolution, but not macroevolution?

If humans have slightly evolved (become stronger, faster, etc., then why couldn't that same thing have happened to monkeys millions of years ago. They gradually get faster, smarter,.. until they are actually a new species.) Macro and micro evolution are linked.

Chrtistina

I apologize, I didn't make it clear enough. ;)

The Catholic Church teaches that it's ok to believe that we as humans evolved from bacteria. Also, it's ok to believe that life wasn't sparked by God. However, under Catholic teaching, we need to believe that God created everything.

>Your opnion: I live in the South now, and I know many, many people that hold that same viewpoint. :)

(edit for grammar)

Created by the same source? Well, we all evolved from one organism.. And about what you said earlier, how can you believe in microevolution, but not macroevolution?

If humans have slightly evolved (become stronger, faster, etc., then why couldn't that same thing have happened to monkeys millions of years ago. They gradually get faster, smarter,.. until they are actually a new species.) Macro and micro evolution are linked.

If we all evolved from one organism, then that would mean every species has the potential to evolve into a human... surely you do not believe this?

hah i better stop myself be4 I go off on some tangent talking about how illogical it is to have a single creator that is both omnipotent and who created a world in which free will exists... infinity is not really, nothing is immortal.

Yeah. I understand that many people have different opinions, but all in all I think it's most important that everyone believes in Jesus Christ rather than Creationism... The gospel of Jesus is the one thing I will never stop fighting for. Besides, I'm sure God will tell us in Heaven what really happened. We'll see who's right :) jk.

hah i better stop myself be4 I go off on some tangent talking about how illogical it is to have a single creator that is both omnipotent and who created a world in which free will exists... infinity is not really, nothing is immortal.

I could make fun of your beliefs if I wanted to.... but we're more mature than that here... so you can save your energy for another time.

so in that case, everything has the potential to eventually evolve into a human... is that what you are trying to convey?

Well, not exactly. For one, realize that the human species is not the best-adapted to our enviroment. In fact, our body is still quite geared toward a tetrapod (walking on 4 legs).

Secondly, it is important to differentiate between 'anything' and 'a population'. A single animal cannot undergo evolution. Rather, evolution occurs on a population-scale. A population evolves, while an organism alone does not.

With that said, yes, it is hypothetically possible that every other species will evolve to the human species, but is extremely unlikely.

hah i better stop myself be4 I go off on some tangent talking about how illogical it is to have a single creator that is both omnipotent and who created a world in which free will exists... infinity is not really, nothing is immortal.

you would rather believe we came from a single organism than a loving creator?

so in that case, everything has the potential to eventually evolve into a human... is that what you are trying to convey?

No, you do not fully understand the concept of evolution. It's not like one day, all the monkeys in the world suddenly evolved. It's much more complicated.. Microevolution and "survival of the fittest" naturally select those most likely to continue life... A single monkey eventually brought about the race of humans through microevolution.

I do not like this idea any better than the rest of you.. But would you not rather know the truth than a lie that makes you feel better?

What lie are you instigating? We do not believe in a lie.

you would rather believe we came from a single organism than a loving creator?

No, but I realize the truth, and I accept it. The truth isn't always what we want to hear.

With that said, yes, it is hypothetically possible that every other species will evolve to the human species, but is extremely unlikely.

why is this unlikely, but not in the single case of the human evolving from what would seem to be a ludacris species or organism at one point? How is human evolution from one species more likely than that of another; why is it not considered extremely unlikely now?

hah i better stop myself be4 I go off on some tangent talking about how illogical it is to have a single creator that is both omnipotent and who created a world in which free will exists... infinity is not really, nothing is immortal.

Hehe, well as most philosophers agree, logic cannot describe a divine being. So yes, it would be 'illogical" ;)

And I'm pretty sure infinity does exist.

you would rather believe we came from a single organism than a loving creator?

Would you rather believe that you lived in paradise, or in hell? Simply because you believe in something does not simply make it true.

And secondly, why can't you believe in both? I know I sure do.

I do not like this idea any better than the rest of you.. But would you not rather know the truth than a lie that makes you feel better?

well, my lie has cured cancer... has your truth done that yet?