Must goverment be the center of our existence? - Page 3

[jwenting]

nope. Obama isn't black. And there are a lot of non-black Muslims as well as a lot of black non-Muslims.

But Obama was born a Muslim, and never abdicated his religion (not that Islam even allows that, he'd have a fatwah on his head if he had and that would have been all over the news).
His goals are clear. Surrender Iraq to the fundamentalists, treat the mullahs in Iran as friends while declaring effective war on Israel who have been the only trustworthy country in the Middle East since the founding of the Jewish state.

[Ancient Dragon]

One link -- if you dare to read it.

[GrimJack]

There are other terms, but for simplicity (much like lumping me in with neocons or such) popular generalizations are sometimes used. And, opinions vary.

Well, Dave - other people have a different opinion (I hope that it does not surprise you that I am one of those people). Much of the information in that article is based on information from Herb Romerstein. He is not considered a neutral observer nor even a particularly believable observer. I chose my particular link from amongst many because I like the VRWC (it seems that you might have been co-opted by them) and they seem as neutral as your reference.

[GrimJack]

Both Obama and McCain have extremely strong communist agendas. Restriction of personal freedoms, increased government power over both people and the economy, etc. etc.

Come on, duuuude - your talking Bush stuff now; all that is in the <poorly named> Patriot Act

Both are enemies of the constitution, though McCain maybe not quite to the degree that Obama is.

Pure cow pucky from you unless you can offer some support for this. So far everything you impugn to either or both are actually being done right now by the Bush administration.

Really the only difference between them is that McCain is a Christian and Obama a Muslim pretending to be a Christian.

Well, I have been wondering how you can spew this sort of stuff and I think I finally found the source of your outbursts.

[GrimJack]

I apologize, I went for the cheap shot (but, at leaste, it was not ad hominem).

[ZZucker]

I love my country, it's the government I fear!

[techbound]

Dont fear the government. Fear those individuals who work for "The Company".

[Aia]

You can even consider the basic family as a government of sorts -- mom & dad are the dictators and the children are the governed.

It almost sounds blasphemous to compare “government” with the dynamic of the caring for a family, the tenderness of wanting to provide every needful thing for their development, to the point of sacrifice if necessary for their well-being. What a corrupted view to think that family life is some “government sort”.
In fact, if any parent tries to impose any implementation of the government form, to which we are subject, I don't have doubts that the children would be removed from them.
Government is an absolute corrupted form of family. Second, only, perhaps to “The family”, the way the Mafia refers to its organization.

Prove it. There has never been a time in human history where there was no government wherever more than 2 people live together.

I will not demand you to prove it, as you did. But since you went as far in history, I will give you my take in what most probably happened. Your great-great-great-many-more-times-over-grandfather meet this young cute female, that became your great-great-great-many-more-times-over-grandmother. They formed an instance of the basic unity of what it would become civilization, and then, a more powerful individual came along, followed by his “compadres”, and bitted the head of your great-ancestor, and subjugated him to follow this individual's rules, using your great-great-and-so-on's family as hostage.
No, I can't prove it. Don't believe me? Look up the Assyrian empire or the Babylonian, or so on.
History is full of the despotism and blood-shed of state and government. It is only at these times, that we have become civilized and instead of an center figure dominating everything, now is a group of elites. Instead of blood and slavery, they demand your work, and subjugation to their judgment, and it must be with the firm believe in the doctrine that it is all for the your own good.

For the record. I am not proposing anarchism, nor chaos. A body of laws to deal with conflicts among individual is desirable. A group of individuals united in a common goal for mutual benefit is a must, since certain endeavors can not easily be achieved by one along. More than that, should be carefully waited due to the risk of robbing from the given endowment of free agency, bestowed upon being born in this earth. Which lately it is taken for naught, but at times past, men and women and children paid preciously for save-guarding it.

[Lardmeister]

Mister Aia's and Mister Sinkula's avatars and ideas almost match, very interesting.

[sneekula]

Mister Aia's and Mister Sinkula's avatars and ideas almost match, very interesting.

Those avatars must come from the days of the black panther movement!

[Aia]

Mister Aia's and Mister Sinkula's avatars and ideas almost match, very interesting.

I summit you don't know what you are talking about.
Even when I would not hesitate to promptly include Mr. Dave Sinkula as a good friend, any similitude you are trying to draw upon our different avatars and that said friendship is nothing more than de-railing the topic.
For a long time I used as an avatar a picture of a lovely lady. Wanting a change of avatar and not finding anything close to the beauty of the said young lady, I decided that a hidden avatar presence behind some shadow was appropriated change.

[Ancient Dragon]

Aia -- I like your new avatar -- its sinister and mysterious.

[sneekula]

Aia -- I like your new avatar -- its sinister and mysterious.

Yeah, cool avatar! A timely reminder that we are all being watched!

[Aia]

And now an inspirational thought to uplift our souls.