The Quebec government recently proposed a tax on the unvaccinated. Their reasoning is that the Covid crisis is being exacerbated because so many people are refusing the vaccine. In Canada, health care is publicly funded so the extra costs associated with the flood of mostly unvaccinated people into hospitals must be borne by all taxpayers, so anyone who willingly contributes to that extra cost should be penalized.

The main argument against this is that adding that tax flies in the face of universal health care. After all, we don't penalize people who engage in high risk activities like skydiving, rock climbing, or downhill skiing.

My viewpoint is that this is a false equivalence. Generally speaking, engaging in these high risk activities does not pose a danger to others, whereas refusing a vaccine almost certainly contributes to the spread of Covid. We already penalize people for not wearing a seatbelt, although that penalty comes in the form of a fine rather than a tax. That is pretty much just a semantic difference.

Perhaps they should try the carrot instead of the stick. Give everyone who gets vaccinated a cash bonus. No vaccine - no bonus. This avoids the tax conundrum and does not violate universality.

Thoughts?

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Why should people be given money for NOT being stupid? Where's my incentive each and every time I use my seat belt? Each and every time I don't jaywalk? Each and every time I look both ways before crossing the street? Where's my incentive each time I get an annual flu shot? Where's my incentive each time in my life I interact with society in a way that benefits society as a whole?

My first thought is that we (Canada and US) already get a bonus. This vaccine is free here and from what I've been told, free in Canada.

It's beyond risky behavior as they are taxing your health care system if and when they get so sick they head to the ER.

These folk also tend to not mask up and in my view today are cold blooded killers.

In an ideal world people would not have to be incentivized to do the right and sensible thing. Unfortunately we live in this world. What do we need to do to get through the pandemic as soon as possible? So far the vast majority of actual experts agree that the solution is to get as many people vaccinated as quickly as possible.

Now the question becomes, how do we accomplish this? Since just waiting for everyone to do the right thing isn't working we are left with

  1. Reward people for getting the vaccine
  2. Punish people for not getting the vaccine

If you just want to wait for people to do the right thing, I'll remind you of a quote by Benjamin Franklin.

He who lives on hope, dies farting.

Where's my incentive each time I get an annual flu shot?

Apparently not dying is not enough of an incentive for a lot of people who are refusing to get the vaccine. I would say that these people are beyond reason and the only way to deal with them is the stick.

Incidentally, Quebec saw a quadrupling of the number of people who wanted the vaccine when they said it would be a requirement if you wanted to buy alcohol or cannabis.

It keeps getting worse.

commented: Hang in there. Yes, there's a lot of good discussions how a virus mutates to get around protections. We need mask up and more now. +0

I've had that conversation with a conservative in Canada. His stance is COVID is not real and only another way to control the masses. According to his and his kind, all the news and statistics are fake. Yet he has both doses of a COVID vaccine. His other stance is that hospitals murder those that didn't take the vaccine. It's why I rarely talk to my old friend any longer.
Here's the chart I think is good to know about:
image_2022-01-17_123603.png

sadly the politicisation of covid has caused a lot of people to think that way.
I've seen people flip-flop on it even. A leftist friend before Biden became president was all opposed to "the Trump vaccine that's going to kill everyone", there was no virus, Fauci was the literal devil. The day Biden took office those same vaccines were suddenly the best thing since sliced bread, covid was a killer disease created by Trump to kill everyone, and Fauci was literally god.
Conservative friends flipped the other way.

To a degree I see the same with people I know in other countries as well.

Personally, I think both attitudes are idiotic.

It seems that competency is dead. Is that because appointees are chosen for their politics rather than their abilities? And in private industry the motivation is almost entirely greed. I understand the governor of California just passed legislation to prevent price gouging for Covid test kits. It used to be axiomatic in politics to "never let a crisis go to waste". Seems to be true in business as well. They used to shoot looters during a crisis. We need more harsh measures (not as harsh) to prevent economic looting during the pandemic.

On the bright side, I see Texas researchers have made their Covid vaccine patent-free. Pfizer and Moderna must be livid. Let the FUDding continue.

Truckers are protesting near the border in Manitoba. It seems they don't like the quarantine requirement for unvaccinated drivers (apparently most of them). I wonder how many of these truckers (who refused the vaccine because "I don't know what's in it") will happily take the new Pfizer five-day anti-viral regime after they get Covid?

commented: I'm not in favour of those price gouging laws, they're creeping price controls +0

Unverified but a possible Herman Cain award winner. See https://imgur.com/gallery/XyxP4TK

Antivaxxer looks like they spent about 5 days in the hospital till they died.

Some say I should have sympathy but that's all gone now for the antivaxxers as they kill others due to delays in needed surgery for others.

Yvette "QT" Clark, 50, Bixby, OK, QTWIQ1 on Twitter, anti-vaxxer, Hospitalized with COVID.

Her Twitter account had some 187,000 tweets. Great place to put your efforts into not dieing.

commented: I've never had any sympathy for antivaxxers, they've been causing outbreaks of far more deadly diseases for decades if not longer. +0

The main problem at the moment is that there has been so much misinformation and lies from everyone (plus simply changing data causing people to update their opinions on matters, something that is often not understood to be possible in our highly polarised society) that many people no longer trust anything anyone says (or very selectively only trust what their chosen ideological leaders tell them, even if those leaders change their mantra radically overnight without telling people why).

This level of mistrust is bad now, when we're dealing with a relatively mild disease that kills only a very small percentage of those who get it and has serious long term effects in a very small percentage as well (mind that given the number of people who get covid the actual numbers are still high, but that's statistics for you).
What worries me far more is what will happen when that mistrust and refusal to do the smart thing "because they're all lying to us anyway" will do when another, far more lethal, pathogen emerges. Something like an airborne strain of ebola or measles that nobody has natural immunity to and is highly resistant to medication and vaccines.

@jwenting. My wife called COVID mild at first but digging into the numbers we have 1 to 3 percent mortality (all ages) and then it gets worse if you look at older people.

Next we have LONG COVID where you can be saddled with health issues for years if not the rest of your life.

Then we have those the die, not of COVID but because their organ transplant or other surgery was delayed because the hospitals are full.

COVID is not mild from my view. We have two nurses in our immediate family and the stories started early and never stopped.

I'm not in favour of those price gouging laws, they're creeping price controls

So it's OK for someone to scarf up a bunch of rapid tests then resell them for five times as much? Are you also in favour of someone trucking bottled water to a disaster area and charging $10 a bottle? How about buying a drug company and increasing the price of life-saving drugs by 1000% just because you can? Where exactly would you draw the line, and why?

@Reverend Jim. Our system is able to overcome price controls and waste tax dollars with ease. Example: https://abc7news.com/san-mateo-ppe-waste-dan-noyes-benito-county-shredded-face-masks/11489391/

The cost for that incident alone is 7 to over 10 million dollars of PPE which has always been in short supply.

Update: The Marines have been called in to sort the PPE into the trash and what will be salvaged.

We have a lot of waste due to

  1. Politics
  2. Greed
  3. Incompetence

While I think there should be consequences for all three, I think the most severe should be reserved for 1 & 2. The first two are deliberate (like first degree murder), while the third is not (manslaughter). Intent matters.

commented: I'll find a good article soon but Austria and a few other countries are moving to MANDATORY COVID vaccinations and fines. +0
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