AI art. Seems you can check if your art has been included in AI training.

[rproffitt]

I'll skip the intro and mention haveibeentrained com so you can look into it yourself so here we go again with AI unleashed without restraint or any rules such as Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics. Even Asimov's laws are now being violated with lethal autonomous weapons (LAWs).

Much like textual AI that is now banned from discussions here, AI art has created another J. Robert Oppenheimer moment with the ability to mimic a particular artist's style. I searched for living artists such as Alex Katz and Sarah Anderson and yes, their works are in the training data.

It's a rather big deal with living artists since they already were challenged enough making art their livelihood.

There's no putting the Genie back in the bottle here and no sign any legislation is on the way to set rules and limits to AI applications. Just like the claim here that it's all spun content, AI is spinning content in text, art and music.

So should discussions of AI applications be banned altogether on Daniweb?

[Reverend Jim]

So should discussions of AI applications be banned altogether on Daniweb?

By implementing such a rule we would be unable to have this discussion.

[Dani]

Discussions about AI are fine. Answering technical questions, and posting editorial, written by an AI is not. It does not benefit anyone.

[rproffitt]

"Microsoft announces 'multibillion' dollar investment into (name we can't use here) maker OpenAI"

Daniweb bans using AI responses and editorial reviews with examples from same.

As to benefit, it's a direct assault on the current SEO system so as I understand it, is the reason for the ban here.

I disagree that it does not benefit anyone. RIGHT NOW, the people in my circle are finding it very useful and beneficial.

1. AI generated Art. Background art for an app that is royalty free.
2. AI generated music. Background sound for an app that is again royalty free.
3. AI generated code. Not the entire app but turbo-charging the dev process, reducing the workload for methods that we no longer have to write.
4. AI generated articles and more. Outside of Google's need to stop AI now as it upsets SEO and search (a debate on its own), companies have embraced it. Some won't, but it's here and tipping a lot of apple carts.

This is now. I can see why Daniweb would ban discussions where we examine AI's capabilities today. It's the SEO impact due to Google.

Maybe that sentence should read "It does not benefit anyone that relies on Google's SEO."

[Reverend Jim]

The big argument, as I understand it, is that this takes away opportunities for real artists/musicians/etc. to earn a living from their work product. While true, that argument has often been used to try to halt the use of any automation. Technology progresses and certain jobs get left on the garbage heap of history. Go to youtube and watch some of the "how it's made" videos to see how machines make things much more efficiently than humans. Nobody makes industrial chains by hand anymore. And nobody makes buggy-whips at all. I don't recall ever seeing a blacksmith shop other than at a historical theme park like the fortress at Louisbourg (Nova Scotia). I remember when musicians unions came out strongly against synthesizers, fearing that they would be out of work as electronic music evolved.

Then there is the argument that AI will put coders out of business. Even long after the introduction of personal computers into the workplace, most code had to be developed from scratch. A lot of that was grunt code that was time-consuming and tedious to write. Now we have packages for just about everything. These packages are generally well written and highly optimized. When developing a Python app for managing my photo collection, instead of spending weeks or months researching digital photo manipulation in order to look for similar images, I can import pyPIL and code up something to do the comparison in just a few hours. I don't find this a threat. I find it liberating. After all, my job as a (former) programmer was not to write code. It was to provide solutions.

[Dani]

I disagree that it does not benefit anyone. RIGHT NOW, the people in my circle are finding it very useful and beneficial.

I absolutely, absolutely, absolutely never said that AI does not benefit anyone. I said that using ChatGPT to answer technical questions on DaniWeb, and using it to post editorial on DaniWeb, does not benefit anyone. I don't find ChatGPT beneficial to the OP nor to community members involved in the discussion.

The big argument, as I understand it, is that this takes away opportunities for real artists/musicians/etc. to earn a living from their work product.

The flip side of the argument there is they are saying that neither ChatGPT, nor any AI, for that matter, has a "soul" or capacity to understand the nuance of emotion, and therefore, by its very nature, all art it creates is quite derivative.

Then there is the argument that AI will put coders out of business.

I think this is very far from the truth. I was having some difficulty trying to find an easy PHP tutorial for XOauth2 the other day, so I asked ChatGPT to code me a PHP class for XOauth2. It wrote a class, and gave me a very nice explanation of how to use it, but it most definitely was not anywhere close to a realistic implementation of XOauth2. It took liberties such as using a native PHP function that doesn't exist and also completely ignored some very crucial XOauth2 requirements. It was pretty useless. Basically it was the equivalent of asking it to write a function to calculate XYZ and it gave me well-formatted code that was free of syntax errors and had a very elaborate description of how to use it:

// Pre: Integer a, Integer b
// Post: Integer
function xyz(int $a, int $b) { return internal_php_fn_that_does_not_exist($a, $b); }

// Very thorough explanation about what function XYZ calculates and what should be passed into it

[Dani]

From what I last read, the AI that can't be named would be a rule violation if written here.

You're being dramatic. I didn't ban the word ChatGPT or high level discussions about ChatGPT. What is against the rules is posting AI-generated content, itself, within DaniWeb posts. Stack Overflow has the exact same rule.

[Dani]

"Microsoft announces 'multibillion' dollar investment into (name we can't use here) maker OpenAI"

Daniweb bans using AI responses and editorial reviews with examples from same.

I don't think ChatGPT is the right tool for DaniWeb. I do think ChatGPT is the right tool for other use cases. Just because a VR company announces a multimillion dollar investment in virtual porn, doesn't mean that DaniWeb should allow porn to be posted in our forums, or else be accused of either being against VR technology or being a prude.

I see the value of AI. I see the value of ChatGPT. I don't think the content is generates brings value to a technical discussion forum. Coupled with Google's stance on the matter being that it would actively hurt our SEO, and other sites like Stack Overflow have already paved the way for banning it, I don't see a compelling reason to allow AI-generated content within our forums.

That doesn't mean I don't see the value of AI.

[Reverend Jim]

neither ChatGPT, nor any AI, for that matter, has a "soul" or capacity to understand the nuance of emotion

Voice of Fire is a piece of "art" purchased by the Canadian Government for 1.8 million back in 1967. It is three vertical bars, two blue and one red. It is a soul-less piece of crap. I'd take just about any AI created art over that. A piece of art does not have to have a soul to be beautiful. Who knows what was in the heart of an artist at the time of creation?

[rproffitt]

Right now my view is this is not a technical forum. It's a forum that is driven by SEO goals.

[Dani]

Right now my view is this is not a technical forum. It's a forum that is driven by SEO goals.

Why do those two things have to be mutually exclusive? Why can’t a company have a social mission and also have business goals? Why can’t a forum work to provide a service to its members but also work equally hard to hit financial milestones to pay its server costs?

Don’t complain about the problem without trying to be a part of the solution.

May I direct you to DaniWeb Premium where it states, “By upgrading to a DaniWeb Premium membership, you are directly contributing to our efforts to be more user-supported, and less reliant on income from advertising. Help us to focus less on ad sales and more on creating a better product for you, our members.” We make less than $100 a month from member contributions right now, and yet our server expenses exceed $4000 a month. 98% of our traffic comes from Google. How is complaining that we are driven by SEO goals helping to solve the problem? Or, if you simply feel it’s not your problem to solve, how is complaining about how I am trying to solve the problem at all productive?

[rproffitt]

The past month has been a whirlwind of developments.

I'm just about to step away but do take a look at https://wordpress.org/plugins/tags/ai/ and wow, that's changed a lot in just a few months.

I'll ponder what you asked and respond later.

[Dani]

I'll ponder what you asked and respond later.

Thank you! :)

98% of our traffic comes from Google. How is complaining that we are driven by SEO goals helping to solve the problem?

Just to clarify, the point of mentioning this statistic is to show how we have all our eggs in one basket, in a very not-so-great way. We are forced to abide by Google's rules because, if we don't, we end up with only 2% of our website visitors remaining. If you're going to complain that we are driven by SEO goals then can you at least suggest some ways that we can get out from being under Google's thumb?

[Abhishek_71]

AI art can be a fascinating and innovative way to create new forms of expression, but today it's very important to consider the ethical implications of using AI to create art, such as issues of authorship and ownership. Additionally, it's important to ensure that the training data used to create AI art is diverse and inclusive, to avoid perpetuating biases in the art created. Overall, I believe AI art has a lot of potential, but it is important to approach it with critical thinking and consideration of the ethical implications.