Outsourcing to Ukraine

[SOFTHEME]

Hi all!

It would be interesting to know your ideas about a new and attractive location for software development outsourcing - Ukraine.

Any information on rates and level of expertise?

Thanks!

[etechsupport]

Check out the comments on this blog;
http://www.managementlogs.com/2006/01/looking-for-new-outsourcing.html

[AlarSoft]

Hi all! It would be interesting to know your ideas about a new and attractive location for software development outsourcing - Ukraine. Any information on rates and level of expertise? Thanks!

Outsourcing to Ukraine allows to minimize project costs and still to get the highest quality and excellent performance. Cost-effectiveness is achieved through competitively low prices for services of IT specialists in Ukraine.
Please contact us to get a free quote on your project!

[bobchrist]

" Eastern Europe outsourcing market will be next hot destination for European company and it will grow especially for local market supporting local European language". This is the prediction referred to this blog; etechsupport.wordpress.com/2007/01/09/etechsupports-outsourcing-prediction-for-2007/

[marketingSS]

There is also Belarus that is a rising outsourcing destination in Eastern Europe. ;)

Among others, this outsourcing destination benefits are:

1/ good educational background of IT specialists
2/ stable market. There are very few day-fly companies.
3/ presense of relatively big IT companies, which has infulence on the general quality of market players' activity
4/ governemental support, including creation of the High Technology Park

Also check the links below:
Outsourcing to Belarus gives Europe benefits only
Belarus Attempts to Become the Eastern European Bangalore

[TkTkorrovi]

Disgusting, i'm for all programmers to get paid for what their work is worth, not playing with them by taking job from programmers somewhere and giving it to programmers somewhere else. And concerning your government supported IT companies led by communists, i would advise not to have any deal with them, i would never work for such companies and i'm by far not the only one. Look, finally, even the programmers who develop the open source software, must get payment for the work, there is no other field in the world where so much work is done for free.

[rybalkin]

Disgusting, i'm for all programmers to get paid for what their work is worth, not playing with them by taking job from programmers somewhere and giving it to programmers somewhere else. And concerning your government supported IT companies led by communists, i would advise not to have any deal with them, i would never work for such companies and i'm by far not the only one. Look, finally, even the programmers who develop the open source software, must get payment for the work, there is no other field in the world where so much work is done for free.

this seems to be a real pain for you
as for what you called the countries led by communists... and not dealing with them...

i guess tolerance is not for you really, i do understand people inshore are losing their jobs but this is business - cost cutting. if you are a true professional you will not lose your place
Eastern Europe with Ukraine, Russia and Belarus will represent highly lucrative locations for IT outsourcing and software engineering soon. the opportunities these countries are offering are huge

also there is a pool of professionals and eastern european countries have always produced great scientists and tech profs

[DimaYasny]

Disgusting, i'm for all programmers to get paid for what their work is worth, not playing with them by taking job from programmers somewhere and giving it to programmers somewhere else.

Russian programming rates are actually not that low, compared to the cost of living. so the programmers aren't really breaking the market. the real market breakers are devs from Indian and Pakistan, who are willing to work very cheap, though in my experience aren't as well qualified as Russian/Belorussian/Ukrainian developers. And concerning your government supported IT companies led by communists,
have you been on EARTH for the last 17 years?

[rybalkin]

Russian programming rates are actually not that low, compared to the cost of living. so the programmers aren't really breaking the market. the real market breakers are devs from Indian and Pakistan, who are willing to work very cheap, though in my experience aren't as well qualified as Russian/Belorussian/Ukrainian developers.

have you been on EARTH for the last 17 years?

good point here! that chap seems to have been in the outer space for the last two decades

what company do you represent?

[DimaYasny]

I represent myself only. And I haven't seen Russia since I was 10 - was growing up in Israel.

[rybalkin]

i see. well still nice meeting you here)

have you worked with some of the ukrainian/russian teams?

[DimaYasny]

I have been maintaining server parks and remote offices for major Russian companies when I was managing an outsourcing company in Israel

[mogilers]

I think that rates for software development are not very high in many regions of the country.

I suppose that the better way to grow is to work for higher rates for customers. Why?

Because customers are ready to pay 50% more in hourly rates, if you are doing projects fast, report real spent efforts and so on.

Certainly, this makes marketing department work two times faster for the same quantity of software development teams, but at least I am happy each of my colleagues - developers and acct managers will complete 20 projects instead of 10 in next 2 years of his life)

[rybalkin]

well i've checked your site, as i understand you have an office in ivano-frankivsk, the cost there should be lower of course but in Kyiv due to office rent and increasing salaries, costs have gone way up

of course if you are oriented towards corporate clients and have stable relations with them you can motivate the price increase. when working with a number of SMBs, flexibility in pricing actually can determine a lot and i doubt that it is a usual practice for software outsourcing companies to offer prices they will not benefit from even if they are considered low

ukraine is still only growing into a popular software outsourcing destination. in addition to quality of work pricing benefits is another thing that can attract more clients.

what geos do you mainly work with? USA?

[mogilers]

We are working with US and EU clients and go directly to different size companies.

'On the internet nobody knows that you are the dog' and the difference between onshore and offshore becomes more unclear.
If you offer good entry conditions to minimize customers' risks and show them good quality and predictability, clients agree for higher rates.

Surely I can afford lower rates due to Ivano-Frankivsk location, and Kyiv is different due to the factors you indicated.

I usually offer low rates, and from technical feedbacks from my clients who are satisfied with the speed and quality of code I've made conclusion that we could rise rates 30-40% for them and they'd be happy nevertheless. If someone estimates the task in 80 hours, we always try completing it in 60 hours, so why wouldn't you get paid more in hourly rates, if you do the same job faster and in shorter D/L?

[rybalkin]

hey there, my name is Vladimir and i believe we can speak the same language but...ok since this is an english language community - let us use English. i am not seeing too much info on Ukrainian companies here, maybe we can see if there are more guys from local area and just provide more info about outsourcing to Ukraine? just exactly as it is without excess of marketing

if you have some time i would recommend reading this article (outsourcing to India and its criticism) and the comments. i've also added something
hope i can place news links here...
http://www.informationweek.com/news/management/outsourcing/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=TPJLC1TFF3ZSSQSNDLRSKHSCJUNN2JVN?articleID=206905890&pgno=1&queryText=&isPrev=

[mogilers]

hey there, my name is Vladimir and i believe we can speak the same language but...ok since this is an english language community - let us use English. i am not seeing too much info on Ukrainian companies here, maybe we can see if there are more guys from local area and just provide more info about outsourcing to Ukraine? just exactly as it is without excess of marketing

if you have some time i would recommend reading this article (outsourcing to India and its criticism) and the comments. i've also added something hope i can place news links here... http://www.informationweek.com/news/management/outsourcing/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=TPJLC1TFF3ZSSQSNDLRSKHSCJUNN2JVN?articleID=206905890&pgno=1&queryText=&isPrev=

thank you, i've read the article...
i think ukrainian companies are well presented and have gained a good reputation worldwide.
in which company do you work?

[ehly888]

The decision to outsource is
often made in the interest of lowering cost or making better use of
time and energy costs, no matter what part of the world you are as
long as you have the capacity, efficiency and dedication to do the
task!!!