London bombs AGAIN!!!

[peter_budo]

This is getting bad. Teroris tried to attack again on 4 different locations.
What is even worster is, one of the attack happend on the bus which I usually take to work.
Unfortunately this guy run a way, hide somewhere between my work place and my recant home. Police is searching for him.

Hope they get them :evil:

[server_crash]

I hope they kill him, his buddies, and all these terrorist countries.

[Rashakil Fol]

What is a terrorist country, and how do you kill it?

[server_crash]

What is a terrorist country, and how do you kill it?

Most middle eastern countries. You kill them the same way they are killing other people. :rolleyes: I would use nukes, but I'm not the president...But really they should start bombing the religious mosques and stuff.

[jwenting]

Nukes are inefficient over large areas. Aerial dispersion of persistent nerve agent is cheaper and more effective.

Luckily the terrorists this time blew it :cheesy: and noone was seriously hurt.

[Cain]

a few years ago I would have said nuke em.. instead i think we should say:
Hussein.. funded his rise to power during the iran-iraq war..
Al-queda and Bin-Ladden.. funded them too.. when the russians entered Afghanistan..
Dont fund the future terrorists. Dont show them how to use weapons or provide them with them. They will use the money/weapons/training you provide on you in the end.

Instead provide medicine and food. Im sure the people will remember in the end.
Besides, who can argue with: "Why are you doing this? We gave you food and medicine when you need it most"

instead of: "Why are you doing this? We gave your
militant cartel revoloutionaries money and weapons so they could recruit your children for their causes and use them as expendable tools for their own militant goals. Were sorry your babies are dead, drugs and chaos fill your country and way of life.. ..its not our fault"

Im sure were training some little militant group in africa or south america.
we'll be talking about that in 10-15 years like we didnt know how or why
its happening all over again and this little militant group has so much power..
..Maybe Hati (again), some CAFTA nation, the congo, eritrea or south africa.. im sure all of these countries appreciate all of the meddeling and lack of genuine aid
we provide... ..often unsolicited.

Cain

[jwenting]

Cain, you can never tell who is a "future terrorist".

Maybe you'll one day come to the conclusion that the only way to get your point across is to blow up something, does that mean noone should ever hire you for a job?

Bin Laden didn't receive any funding from the west (at least directly, organisations he was involved with during the liberation war in Afghanistan agains the Soviet invasion may have).
He doesn't need such funding as he has quite a bit of money of his own (estimated several hundred million, probably less now).
Saddam got funded by everyone at some point, first because he was opposed to the fanatics in Iran (who WERE funding terrorism at that time and still are today), later because there was money in it (oil sales to Russia, France, China, North Korea, etc.).

As a nation you support other nations (and groups in nations) that share your interests.
You can't tell what will happen with those nations or groups years or decades later.
I'm sure the Soviets would never have helped the Chinese in Korea if they'd known those same Chinese would a few years later use that equipment and training to attack the USSR in order to gain access to the mines and oilfields in Siberia (a war that lasted for over 20 years yet was never reported in the west despite involving at its height tens of thousands of troops on either side (making it an effort comparable to Desert Storm in size)).

Of course you can as a nation cower inside your own borders, but that's only a short reprieve as sooner rather than later someone will see you as weak and an easy target at which point your isolationism will have ensured you have no friends who'll come to your aid when that opponent (whom you would never see coming because you're not looking for it, thinking yourself safe inside your shell of false security) decides to strike.

[zeroth]

The world´s problem boil down to politics (politicians), money, and overpopulation. Get rid of these and you start recovery...

[server_crash]

You know, all of these london bombs make me wonder how well it's going over in Iraq. I mean, why would they be doing such a thing if they weren't really pissed off at supporting countries because they are getting beat. If supporting nations over there were getting beat, do you think they would still be doing this? Maybe I'm mixed up in my thinking.

[server_crash]

Cain, these fundings you are talking about were indirect and incidental. First of all, we funded Sadam like this:

For a while we were giving to some charities..Millions and millions were given over time. Later we realized that instead of the proper people recieving it, it was Sadam secretely stealing the money from the charities. There was no way we could have known that at the time, and really nothing we could do about it but throw his smelly butt out of Iraq like we did. I'm not saying that was the cause of the war, by the way.

We funded Osama by giving him training. He was actually a well renowned person in his business though. No one suspected him of what he is now, or hated him like they do now. I don't know what made him hate the US, but something sure has. You know, if people want to come over here from other countries and recieve military training, a job, or whatever, they should be able to. There is no way to tell who is bad, and who is not.

[jwenting]

Osama was being forgotten after others in Afghanistan succeeded to drive out the Soviets and depose of the communist government.
He then supported those who were the best equipped opposition to those people, which happened to be the ultra orthodox Taliban.
Being anti-US and a religious nutcase was politically expedient for him at that time and has since helped him gain recruits and followers in communist and fanatical Muslim terrorist groups.
His personal fortune and the Taliban's (and his own no doubt) connections in the international arms trade helped him gain a key role as an organiser and supporter of those groups, to the point where he can now to a degree dictate their policies.
That is what Al Qaeda is, not a single organisation but rather a diffuse network of interlinked and mutually supportive terrorist cells with Osama and his inner circle controlling to some degree all of them and liaising between them.

Saddam never had anything specifically against the US until the point where the US beat the hell out of him (with support from others of course) after Saddam's invasion of Kuwait.

[Cain]

How very patriotic of you jentwing. We can just bomb them into oblivion.
Then we can have a big ol cakewalk, sing kumbaya and roast some marshmallows. genius.

A big ol bomb is just going to emphasize the US place in the world as pushy tyrants.
The US never admits wrong doing or its own naive actions. Our approach to politics
is in no way humble. In fact it is juvenile in its way, ignorant in its approach and
often disrespectful to the various cultures of the world. The US sends a clear message to
anyone even half asleep and not paying attention: If were talking to you or meddling its because
we want something from you or have something to gain from it.

Hussein was directly funded in support of an effort to allow us to play a middle eastern
game called "The enemy of my enemy is my friend." To this day I'm certain the Condoleeza
Rices and George Bushs of the world really have no clue as to what this means.
While funding Hussein We had two interests to profit from:
We were going after Moammar Kadalfe and ended up blowing up his daughter in a US lead
air raid instead. (thats right, the US bombed his house with bad intel and he wasn't home,
blew up his daughter & the world wonders why this guy is nuts.)
The "western thinking " Iranian sha had just been ousted from power. (thats right the
guy we had bought into power, our own Manchurian puppet and the people weren't buying
it one bit) The neighboring Iraq was not happy with the "western" Iran and sought to take
advantage of the power struggle going on. Saddam was able to further commit genocide and
rise to power through our means provided. He is our monster as is Kadafi.

The US really didn't care until a resource was threatened in Kuwait.
Condaleeza Rice further validates this as the primary interest of the US in Afghanistan/Pakistan
when she visits the region and threatens to DISCONTINUE AID to the region (were talking
about WITHHOLDING food, water, medicine for locals and refugees alike) in an attempt to stop
the oil pipeline from Iran to India via way of Pakistan. Then she further iterates to India and
Pakistan that they can use the us funded, supported and recently secured from Oman. The
Pakistan/afghan region was key to the construction of a pipeline(s)? in the area. The US has
a controlling interest in the area. Seemingly revolving around gas fields. And they would like to
protect it I'm sure. People seem to have forgotten the proposed southern route from the Caspian
sea through the afghan Pakistan region as well. One would think that an Indian ocean distribution
point would be the logical end point for this proposal.. ..but what if India was the target all along.
This is the result when two Oil barons rule our country in less than a twenty year span.

As for 'predicting' future terrorists even I will admit that this is a stretch. But what I wont relent
on is the fact that we can certainly do things differently. Americans are a proud people. Pride
is a wonderful thing but often clouds the judgment of a society. When two proud societies clash
it is often the result of so much pride and so little humility that a disastrous outcome is certain. I
am sure no nation wants a terrorist in their backyard. But its hard to cooperate with those you
choose to have no understanding or empathy for. A humble nation or individual is much
easier to respect and empathise with every time.

The current estimated cost of the US occupation in Iraq is around 600billion and is expected
to exceed $700billion shortly. The estimated cost of the war in Afghanistan is over 300 billion now.
(plus lives, dont forget the lives folks)
That would have mad a major impact on diseases and hunger. We could have even bought out
nearly all central American Chinese Oil interests which are to be purchased by china for 18 billion
or so.. ..and were enabled to do so with our new CAFTA plan that the US decided was such a
good idea since NAFTA worked out great for Americans. (really it sucked and it still does.)

This history of action leads me to believe that the US simpy doesnt care.
It doesnt mean the a single terrorist is right but I dont think were making it
any easier for these idiots to put down thier guns and start kissing babies and
helping people. Looks like were making monsters to me and we have noone to
blame but ourselves.

[jwenting]

what the hell are you ranting about?

You seriously think just cowering in abject fear of the outside world (a.k.a. isolationism) is better than taking an active position and trying to change the world to stamp out those who would threaten you as a nation?

Do you seriously believe the hardline leftwing view that the US caused all the terrorism in the world and had they just not invaded Iraq 9/11 would not have happened (yes, that has been claimed by people voicing the same idiotic arguments you use)?

[Cain]

I said nothing about cowering in abject fear. As a matter of fact, while the
rest of the world was sound asleep and feeling safe. I served eight years in
this mans army to defend those scared little sheep. I know what its like to
pull the trigger. Do you? I have probably come alot closer to living the "Kill
em all and let god sort em out" mentality that you are goose stepping about
with. It solves nothing and helps no one. There are better ways to solve
ones problems. Our whole nation could use a lesson.

[server_crash]

What do you suggest we do? Sit back and do nothing? I think we should be more ruthless with our tactics...Maybe not just bombing the crap out of the place, but definately opening a can on some people. These people don't follow rules and crap like we have to. I say drop the freakin UN and stomp some butt, while not worrying about what liberals and gay anti war people think. If they don't like it, then kick them out of the country and let them sit in a terrorist sanction and see how long they last. I gurantee you, that when they show up on tv and know they are about to get their head cut off on live television(this actually happens) that they will want to kill everyone of these people.

[jwenting]

No, I've not been in the armed forces.
But that't not of my own choise. If I hadn't been disqualified on medical grounds I'd likely have been a professional officer at the moment (or RIFfed, given the state of our armed forces or what passes for them).

With terrorists there are no better ways than to kill them all. They can't be reasoned with, they can't be "corrected" by locking them up or forcing them to undergo psychiatric treatment, and they won't stop unless they kill you first.

I don't agree with stooping to their level and indiscriminately killing anyone and everyone in their societies, but I do hold that our own safety is always more important than that of any civilian in a society that harbours and shields terrorists.

[Asif_NSU]

The type of terrorism the world is facing today can not be eradicated by means of arms and forces. To my understanding this is a propaganda war rooted deep with in Islamic extremism. It can only be won with arguments. You might be wondering how can you even reason with such ruthless terrorists?
If you see closely you will find that none of the suicide bombers hardly had any criminal records whatsoever. They were just brainwashed by extremism. And as long as terrorist organisations keep preaching their propaganda their is always the chance that one day you will discover your the next door neighbour who happens to have an arabic name has died as a suicide bomber. My point is that they recruit members by preaching their faulty propaganda, and this can only be fought effectively by educating people with the correct spirit and message of Islam. We need to fight arguments with arguments. That has to be the primary means to defeat terrorism. Everything else is secondary.

[peter_budo]

Nice one, we need more people with your way of thinking

[Cain]

Agreed. Certainly a worthwhile sentiment.

[Asif_NSU]

Thank you, Cain and peter_budo.