Apropos http://www.daniweb.com/forums/faq.php?faq=daniweb_policies, a suggestion: look up "infraction" in a dictionary e.g.

http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chref.py/main?title=21st&query=infraction
infraction noun, formal the breaking of a law, rule, etc; violation.

infraction noun, formal the breaking of a law, rule, etc; violation.

Seems like the word matches the definition to me. What's your point?

Seems like the word matches the definition to me.

Word does. Usage does not.

"member is given <a breaking of a law>" makes no sense.

We're starting a new meme. Soon, 4chan will give out "infractions"
Later--

commented: haha +0

As long as it gets the point across I could care less if Dani calls it No-No's

commented: I would vote in favor of "no-no" +0

The word police will never rest :)

commented: Wasn't that a Cheap Trick song? "The Word Police" +0

You call someone who makes a suggestion "police", Davey?? :)

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diafol

Can't you just issue an infarction for an infraction?

There are lots of labels attached to those who perhaps get a little too obsessed with semantics, and word police was amongst the nicer of them so I used that. The smiley betrayed the humour in my posting, I would have hoped.

Seriously though, the infraction system is something that comes as default in many forum systems and has been accepted as a de facto method of rule enforcement. Does it really matter if it does not fit the dictionary definition in terms of usage as long as it helps DaniWeb mods to keep the community rolling along?

> Does it really matter if it does not fit the dictionary definition

It doesn't fit everyday usage either.

The meaning of words matters as much or as little as one's desire to communicate effectively.

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diafol

I'd like to think that improper usage is just laziness as opposed to stupidity. Either way, there should be no place for it in a mature 'grown-up' app. like DW's vBulletin. As a journalist HG, I'd have thought that you would appreciate that? Clear communication is essential.

Me now gonna righting stop is.

My comments here are not as a journalist but as the community admin on DaniWeb.

I am surprised that reponse of the community admin on DaniWeb to one suggestion for improved wording is to brand that person "too obsessed with semantics".

I'm not surprised that you ignored the obvious humor in said admin's response. To do so would surely cause your well reasoned suggestion to be mocked and ignored by everyone rather than nearly everyone. :icon_rolleyes: Let's also ignore that the infraction system is built into vBulletin and your complaints are better directed to the creators (www.vbulletin.com) rather than a single client (www.daniweb.com).

I'm not terribly familiar with vBulletin beyond simply using the features. Perhaps Dani could chime in about whether such a change is even possible?

Do a quick net search for "given an infraction." It's a widely used, do I dare say, idiom. Language revolves around usage. From a practical standpoint, in the scheme of things it probably does not matter one bit.

20 years ago "the net" was something you used to catch fish with, mail was brought to you by the mailman and a web was something a spider used to trap flies with. Times change, so does vocabulary.

commented: My point exactly! +0

> "given an infraction." It's a widely used,

If you can find even one dictionary that agrees with this usage, I'd love to see it.

If an industry or group or otherwise has a particular parlance you're not likely to find definitions for its words in any dictionary.

I'd say take your "passion" and challenge people on programming language semantics instead.

> If an industry or group or otherwise has a particular parlance

A moment ago you were saying it was widely used.

It doesn't fit everyday usage either.

I was just thinking to myself, "what the hell is this kid talking about", so I went and looked up the "dictionary definition" on websters dictionary, which states,

breach; violation; infringement: an infraction of the rules.

The only example websters gives for usage of the word is exactly how it is being used on Daniweb. Communicating effectively is about getting the point across between two parties, and I believe, as does everyone except you, that the infraction system is pretty clear in its meaning: don't do XXX again.

> The only example websters gives for usage of the word is exactly how it is being used on Daniweb.

What example is that? You omitted to quote it.

"An infraction of the rules" is the example. The word infraction being a synonym in that context for [breach, violation, infringement]. The language "given an infraction" comes from this definition and has only a slightly different meaning, i.e. to be given one means you were caught committing an infraction. I don't see what's complicated here. English has plenty of words that are similarly used.

commented: Yes +0

> i.e. to be given one means you were caught committing an infraction.

I think you'll find given means given.

Hence "given an infraction" means "given a breach of the rules".

I.e. nonsense.

Sheesh man who really cares. I hope you're not going to be getting that many infractions that the grammar actually annoys you.. :P

So for all of your pedantic criticism, you have yet to offer an alternative suggestion to this gross linguistic infraction.

So for all of your pedantic criticism, you have yet to offer an alternative suggestion to this gross linguistic infraction.

Do you need one?

> i.e. to be given one means you were caught committing an infraction.

I think you'll find given means given.

Hence "given an infraction" means "given a breach of the rules".

I.e. nonsense.

I think you'll find that in colloquial English the meaning of expressions change based on the context in which they are used. Hence to be "given an infraction" means you were just penalized.

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diafol

Have to agree with chrisjj here guys. The usage in DW/vBulletin whatever, is just wrong. "Given an infraction" is the same as saying "given a transgression" - it just doesn't make sense. Lazy translations are forever creeping into everyday language, which, to my mind end up diluting it, rather than enriching it. As English isn't my first language, I shouldn't really give a fig, but I find it infuriating all the same. I'm sure that the statements within the English language pack that comes with vBulletin could be changed quite easily to 'clear English'.

Have we been brought up to accept the Book of English as written by Dubya?

Perhaps DW is looking to create "baby talk" and more memes. Later--

@HG - I realise that you're speaking as a DW admin - point taken.

commented: Later-- +0