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Well a bunch of farmers and poorly trained army men beat the most powerful army in the world to gain independence (American Revolution) so I am sure it is possible.

well, they had some things going for them...
- The British supply lines were extremely long and overstretched.
- The British were at war at the time with France (among others) so couldn't send all the troops they would normally have been able to send).
- Communications were rather slow. Sending a request for reinforcements took weeks to arrive in London, the reinforcements themselves weeks more to cross the Atlantic by which time it was usually too late.

The forces opposing Iran right now don't have most of those problems.
Supply lines for the US are long, but reinforcements and supplies can now be airlifted and be in theater within 24 hours rather than a month or so.
The US is already in theater in force, having considerable forces on both the east and west borders of Iran, plus a fleet blocking Iran's only access to the open ocean.
To the north Iran is bordered by Turkey and Russia, not exactly friends of the Ayatollahs either.

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Iran ruling the world... very BAD idea. They would probably start by killing everyone whom they don't like, starting with Jews, then Americans, then probably everyone else who isn't Muslim and doesn't want to be. What do you expect from a country run by a murderous liar and a bunch of religious fanatics, who claim they speak to Allah and he commands them to conduct Jihad upon everyone?

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in other words they'd do pretty much the same thing the Ottomans did whereever they ruled.
Enslave everyone who's not a muslim except those who could become dangerous to you (and kill those).

And worse, according the the Q'uran that's exactly what every good muslim should do...

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I believe that people here posting are all non-muslims and I also believe you people are much more intelligent... so you may have heard Quran says this and that but do remember you havnot read Quran or understood it while who ever read it accepted it and that is the reason there exists so many Muslims today.
I About Iran yes there is fanaticism. Also I am Muslim and I know what Islam says... Usually human being has in his very nature that he supports his community and his own understandings but philisophically this leads to the wrong judgments. Ottoman empires were Muslims but if you read their ruling history they killed the Muslim preachers and clerics at Large because they were threat to the Ottoman imperialism. Also Quran doesnt order any non muslim to be killed. Quran says to defeat the enemies of GOD. now see who can be enemy of GOD. Ofcourse we all are note here enemies of GOD... we are not trying to disobey GOD. Quran sets example of Pharoh as a person who tried to claim himself as a GOD. Now this thin shall be clear here... if a person is Muslim then according to Quran he will be judged for his deeds and whether Ottoman or whether suicide bombers and whether Osama Bin Laden and whether Bush and any other (Hitler etc...) who have misdeeds (in this case mass killing of innocents) will have to be accountable for their deeds at the day of judgement.
I put the link in my last post so that you people read before say anything... bcoz it is possible you see front while not back... afterall we all are human beings

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One more thing...if Iran ever became the super power ... Middle east and Arab states will have the first and foremost threat ... so Europeans are safer than Arabs from Iran.

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if you read the Quran, just Like the Bible, or Torah or any other religious book - it preaches for all sorts of niceties.

The problem is historical - every religion went through this. And if the Jews went through their murderous phase in the biblical days killing other tribes, and the Christians went through that later on during their attempts to capture Jerusalem, and during the conquer of America, and with the inquisition days, the Muslims are going through this phase now, when there are nuclear weapons available. THAT is the problem, not this religion, or another.

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That is what I was telling. And I discussed that because In my opinion intelligent people shall not seek weapons and power but instead use their wisdom.... Christians and Jews community has fear that if any Muslim country became super power then world is going to be in a big trouble where Current Muslims feel that they are already in trouble and they need similar weapons as current super power holds. Now if we peer into the matter..then whoever will be superpower the discontinuity in the peace will remain there.... there is no age in the history when no human being ever suffered ... and this is happening 2day and may happen next... but what is the solution then... if US and its allies invade all the territories of the world will that rescue the human beings or if Iran get its hand on the Nuclear Weapon will then Iranian republic will be more safer than no... ofcourse not...
I am discussing this stuff bcoz I believe that Intelligent people shall think differently... I firmly believe that US has so many intellectuals(I m impressed from a lot whom I have met) and institutes but the problem lies in the global politics where each state wants POWER and not PEACE...
Any criticism is welcomed

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Mr. nav33n
As you are from India and thus you may be disturbed from the tensions among Hindues and Muslims out there...
Let me tell you one thing... This concept is wrong if any muslim believes that a Jihadi or Mujahid is permanent state of a person.... Jihad is a concept to fight against evil doers when the threat of the Evil rises... Then there is a Jihad or you can say a war against Evil...
In your country people are using concept of Jihad for Politics... I am not siding any one here. But what I am saying is that only intellectual mind and Knowledge overcome this. I even dont favor Palestenians because any Muslim who kills innocent is a Killer and shall face the penalty as he did a evil thing...
There are muslims at large in India...if you ever confront with any Mujahid or Jihadi then ask him that whether he even has the knowledge about all the Muslim states existing in the world and whether he has any knowledge of Quran other than the topic of Jihad.
Do remember In Quran GOD says that when Muslims will have no trust in GOD then they shall be left in dismay..and that is what happening today... Palestenians, Iraqis and Kashmiris all have poor faith in GOD they want weapons to fight.. and they are not asking peace from GOD...
Also I think that there exists a key muslim figure at India Dr. Zakir Nayak... if you ask him he will explain you better.
Any criticism is welcomed

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problem is - the technology is already there. and you can't really rest peacefully, when others, who preach for jihad and murder are getting their hands on nukes.

the US do not care for asian territories, all they care about is their economic interests. so does every advanced country in the world, ruled not by the ambitions of a single tyrant, but by democracy. the situation in Iran is different - they haven't got much to lose, but they have an ambitious tyrant and they have enough fanatics in the top echelons to make disasters happen.

the cold war between ussr and the us was a much quieter conduct, because both countries were just holding each other back - the US knowing it has nothing to look for in Russia, and the Russians knowing they can't install communism in the states. so it was a quiet struggle for border regions, not like now with Iran - a plunge into the depths disregarding everyone else in the civilized world.

look at Turkey, Egypt, Jordan - they all have a much better level of life and are much richer, because they dropped the fanatics off the ruling wagon. While in the really fundamentalist countries life is really bad. and wherever life is bad - it's easy to incite the masses for a jihad and get even more fanatics.

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I believe that people here posting are all non-muslims and I also believe you people are much more intelligent... so you may have heard Quran says this and that but do remember you havnot read Quran or understood it while who ever read it accepted it and that is the reason there exists so many Muslims today.

For how long? I've heard of several instances where those who believed the Quran later abandoned it and Islam in favor of the Bible and Christianity. And from what I understand, many of those who did so also died for this choice. Can you prove this to be inaccurate?

Or for another example: I have heard of a text called, in the english language at least, something like 'The True Furquan'. It was, if I recall correctly, supposed to be something like a rebuttal to the Quran. When I did a google search on this, the first item that came up was the following: http://forums.almaghrib.org/showthread.php?t=6299. I admit I only read the first post and part of the second. (Basically, what showed on my screen without trying to scroll the image.) The commentary in just these posts was interesting, though. Care to expand?

Also Quran doesnt order any non muslim to be killed. Quran says to defeat the enemies of GOD. now see who can be enemy of GOD. Ofcourse we all are note here enemies of GOD... we are not trying to disobey GOD.

Just to get this clear, which 'god' are we talking about? The generic kind most people seem to think of when they talk about various religions, or the Islamic Allah?

Quran sets example of Pharoh as a person who tried to claim himself as a GOD. Now this thin shall be clear here... if a person is Muslim then according to Quran he will be judged for his deeds and whether Ottoman or whether suicide bombers and whether Osama Bin Laden and whether Bush and any other (Hitler etc...) who have misdeeds (in this case mass killing of innocents) will have to be accountable for their deeds at the day of judgement.

Is there any man or woman alive who doesn't have some form of misdeed? I admit that I'm not an expert, but it would seem to me that this would indicate that every human being alive is going to be in serious trouble when that day comes.

I put the link in my last post so that you people read before say anything... bcoz it is possible you see front while not back... afterall we all are human beings

Given what I know of humankind, I'd say it's more likely we're seeing things from the back rather than the front. Try turning over a crocheted image and looking at the back of it sometime and you ought to get what I mean. At best, you'll get a blurry copy of what's on the front; more likely, you'll have strands of yarn weaving all over the thing.

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That is the point... this fight is for Power and hatred... Many people in Muslim community back fight because they have fear to become a state like Palestine ... where Muslims are killed because they are not powerful enough. Remember I am not backing palestinians or Israelities. Where as tyrany has to be defeated by their own public (in Iran's case the Iranian republic) but Iranian government has made their public think that US and Israel will overtake them for OIL and Power so to defend they have to be ready for weapons. About this theory that is plausible for Iranian republic as US has invaded the neighbouring country .. its effect will be there. And I wonder why Israel and Muslims have so tension among them. If there are Muslim fundamentalists (by the way can anyone tell me what exactly you perceive by the meaning of Fundamentalist) then Israel is also using a force so both are balanced in making the situation worse. In previous posts people have talked about the different wars... dont you see that there were wars because of lacking of harmony. I firmly state that any person calling himself mujahid today is not a mujahid as he is fighting for his own benefit and not for the cause of Islam...in kashmir they are fighting to be independent and then after independence forget islam and jut do merry making..in palestine they only want to live like GULF dynasties just say ALLAH name and do every possible evil doing in behind... in Afghanistan they had proved before US invasion that Taliban only wants Power and not an Islamic state... Where as Iran..it never served Islam as it never had any Islamic conference or any literary event or Research... but insisted to fight against the world... where as AlQaeda .. I believe they only want to become a part of history as Hitler and Communist has become part of history and if they would have been alive today they would have boastfully narated their stories...

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Mr.EnderX
You seem very nervous. You have understood my points. This is the painful thing that I am alluding. Just think you will die one day and you were not existing before you had a birth. Where were you and where will you go. I ask you not to watch the front and I mean front. dont see what other shows to you see what you can understand... Why dont you study Quran (real Quran) yourself from first page to th end and then tell me what you get. I havent heard any person turning over Quran. And if someone tell me I dont care ... y shall i go behind others and the media coverage. when I am an intelligent person y dont I myself study and comprehend. You must be an intelligent and mature person..think if you would have been born Muslim then what you would have done...
You can ask specific queries at www.islamonline.net
Do study what is Islam and how it differs from Christianity and how Christianity differs from Judism and people who believe non of them ... then they need to think the purpose of their life and what is this life what is spirit
Any criticism is welcomed

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i think religion in general is evil. thrughout history it has been used as a method for opressing people

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That is the point... this fight is for Power and hatred... Many people in Muslim community back fight because they have fear to become a state like Palestine ... where Muslims are killed because they are not powerful enough.

when was the last time you visited palestine, to make such stupid remarks?

Remember I am not backing palestinians or Israelities.

sounds like you are

Where as tyrany has to be defeated by their own public (in Iran's case the Iranian republic) but Iranian government has made their public think that US and Israel will overtake them for OIL and Power so to defend they have to be ready for weapons.

of course! but that is actually a lie, if you know anything about Israel or the US.

About this theory that is plausible for Iranian republic as US has invaded the neighbouring country .. its effect will be there.

the US originally stopped the invasion of Iraq into Kuwait

And I wonder why Israel and Muslims have so tension among them.

1. historical reasons
2. money to keep the conflict up flowing in from every muslim country out there
3. corrupt palestinian authorities, basically terrorists and murderers themselves
4. brainwashed palestinians blaming israel for their poverty, while being ripped off by the corrupt authorities

all these - known and proven facts.

If there are Muslim fundamentalists (by the way can anyone tell me what exactly you perceive by the meaning of Fundamentalist) then Israel is also using a force so both are balanced in making the situation worse.

if Israel doesn't retaliate, they are perceived as weaklings by the palestinians, and that only brings in more terror. Israel has tried to remedy the situation several times, to no avail, because no matter what they do everything gets flushed down the drain by the palestinians who do NOT want peace - they are getting paid to fight.

In previous posts people have talked about the different wars... dont you see that there were wars because of lacking of harmony. I firmly state that any person calling himself mujahid today is not a mujahid as he is fighting for his own benefit and not for the cause of Islam..

that is true. all those militants are being paid top dollars for their activities.

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i think religion in general is evil. thrughout history it has been used as a method for opressing people

Well...not a bad point...religion has its ups and downs..for example..religion has tried to promote good family ethics (i'm not so sure about now). Some religous groups do voluntary stuff (buliding, aid in times of crisis). Some donate money, it promotes their Bible standards ect...but religion has also been at the center of much controversy..such as why there is so much denominations in christianity..after all...isn't it the same Bible some may reason...Also, look at the abuse and financial scandals that have hit may churches in recent times...look at the wars that some agree with..religion has it's good, but also misleads people and can be a source of division...has even caused people to divorce due to religous differences! People have also used Holy Writings...such as the Bible to back-up how they want to live...for example, some church leaders have used the doctrine of hell to drive fear into their church members.

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Christianity (the catholic church) was immensley corrupt in medievil times

I trust you know that Christianity is not just made of the Catholic Church, and basing your theory that religion is evil based on their actions is a bit premature.

It isn't so much that religions are evil as the people who get carried away by them are. Religion can by a very healthy part of an individual's life (and is for most) if practiced the right way. You would notice that most major recognized religions at their cores teach good values to their followers.

Of course, the different denominations of each religion might have ways of thwarting these teachings in ways that benefit them. Some might deliberately mis-interpret the teachings for profit/personal gain(corruption you mentioned above).

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No religion if is divine is evil. Religion means message and orders from GOD. Those who are atheist they need to think that this is not their fault ... why who are believers are believing in any religion. Uptill now you people are not thinking but just looking the glamour and what is shown to you. Each soul has been purposefully sent to this world.
And I am not backing palestinians or Israelities.
I have met many palestenians. They tell me their situation that seems horrible and ofcourse at other(west) forums I see other views. The basic problem is that we are only looking this life.
A friend here in previous posts tried to rise a question that it is impossible that any human being is free from misdeeds. Well that is the point that then who is monitoring us and who is judging and what are exactly misdeeds.
I believe that most of you have never lived or discussed any muslim (true muslim) before and all you know is through the western media or west biased arabic media. I have communications with all religion public and atheist as well.
Any criticism is welcomed

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Thanks for your explanation Mr.Peace.

Mr. nav33n
There are muslims at large in India...if you ever confront with any Mujahid or Jihadi then ask him that whether he even has the knowledge about all the Muslim states existing in the world and whether he has any knowledge of Quran other than the topic of Jihad.
Any criticism is welcomed

I really DONT want to have any face to face talks with a mujahid or a jihadi. I love my life. Thanks again !

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U see you love your life alone... that is what called materialism and religion is different in this manner.
I appreciate you people are discussing things.

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U see you love your life alone...

Nope. I love everything which has life, even those clean/dirty cockroaches which live in gutter. I just hate people who kill others in the name of jihad or allah.

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I am not afraid of "natural death",cuz one has to die some day. But, I dont like getting shot. :)
oh, btw, I dont care where i go after death.

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