Illegal Immigration - Page 2

[Infarction]

Why not help make some of these places better places to be? One poster said it himself; mexico is crap.

Aside from the political and economic reasons not to, the US does give a lot out. There are many, many non-profit organizations that do improvement projects overseas, and the US government gives out a ton of aid every year (enough so that some people at home would rather see the money put to use cleaning our own country first). Unfortunately, a lot of those funds end up going through corrupt government channels, and the aid never reaches it's intended destination or purpose. If you'd prefer, the US could go around and depose all the corrupt governments guilty of this, but somehow I think the rest of the world would frown on such action.

[EnderX]

If you'd prefer, the US could go around and depose all the corrupt governments guilty of this, but somehow I think the rest of the world would frown on such action.

Forget the rest of the world for a moment, the US citizens who'd like us to provide world welfare would be the first to start clamoring if we tried that.

[joshSCH]

Well, apparently the state of Oklahoma just passed the strongest illegal immigration bill of any other state. Finally, perhaps now it will spread to other states.. and politicians will have the balls to enact it.
http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?p=3550

[Ancient Dragon]

“In a word, it’s nationalism, and nationalism is very, very scary. It pro motes segregation and racism. That’s what this bill does. It promotes racism and segregation. It’s very scary that this is what Oklahoma wants.”

What a lot of crock.

During debate, Sen. Judy Eason McIntyre, D-Tulsa, called the bill mean-spirited and a sham.

It imposes costly and ineffective mandates on state and local agencies and and theatens access to key public services, she said

You better bet your boots it does! And its about time too. Is it "mean spirited" to protect one's home from an invador? If someone illegally moves into my home should I be expected to pay for their medical expenses ? Hell no!

[Infarction]

This is why I vote R instead of D.... :icon_twisted:

[Lardmeister]

This is why I vote R instead of D.... :icon_twisted:

Of course illegal immigration has skyrocketed under the R's watch, since the R's supporters needed cheap labor and give the labor unions a good stomp!

[jwenting]

not really. The Republicans just have failed to seal the breaches created by 10 years of Clintonism.
That's a major fault of theirs which cost them dearly in last year's elections and will cost them in next year's presidential elections. But they're not the cause of the problem, merely the cause of it not being handled properly.

[Lardmeister]

not really. The Republicans just have failed to seal the breaches created by 10 years of Clintonism.
That's a major fault of theirs which cost them dearly in last year's elections and will cost them in next year's presidential elections. But they're not the cause of the problem, merely the cause of it not being handled properly.

Ouch, your ignorance of American politics is blatantly obvious. Clinton was president of the US for 8 years not 10. Newt Gingrich, an extremely capable man, let the house since 1995, plenty of power to seal the border. This was followed by 4 years of absolute control of all branches of the US government. To blame the huge influx of illegal imigration into the US since 2000 on Bill Clinton is at best rather silly and plain old unsmart.

[joshSCH]

Of course illegal immigration has skyrocketed under the R's watch, since the R's supporters needed cheap labor and give the labor unions a good stomp!

I will agree that republicans have used illegals as cheap resources. However, it is the democrats that want them here purely for political reasons.. to create a new voters class who will vote democratically.

[jwenting]

Clinton was president for 8 years. It took another 2 to flush most of his appointees out of important offices and start bending his disaster policies around...
Some might argue that a lot of those policies are still in place to this day due to bureaucratic inertia.

[bumsfeld]

I will agree that republicans have used illegals as cheap resources. However, it is the democrats that want them here purely for political reasons.. to create a new voters class who will vote democratically.

I understand that illegal immigrants in the US cannot vote in elections. The Democrats must be pretty stupid to get voters that way!

[bumsfeld]

Clinton was president for 8 years. It took another 2 to flush most of his appointees out of important offices and start bending his disaster policies around...
Some might argue that a lot of those policies are still in place to this day due to bureaucratic inertia.

Conversely it would have taken Clinton 2 years to flush out Bush Sr. appointees and to bend his disaster policies around ...

[jasimp]

Obviously, jwenting and joshSCH, you have not met the Democrats I have. Most of them, including me, want all the Illegals out of this country. They are breaking a law and need to be deported immediately. I though Stephen Colbert summed it up beautifully on his show, his "congressional bill" was one post-it note which said "Get Out".

[joshSCH]

I understand that illegal immigrants in the US cannot vote in elections. The Democrats must be pretty stupid to get voters that way!

That's why the democrats want the illegals to stay in American and become citizens... so they will have more people who will vote for them.

[Ravenous Wolf]

@ josch

<snipped>

you seems to think that might is right and that the mighty america can very well do as they please. the words beat them fair and square denotes just what a sick and ethnocentric person you really are. i hope not all americans are like you for if even a quater is half as demented as you then one can understand all the anti-american sentiment going on around the world. i suppose the very first american migrants(by the way were they legal or illegal. and if legal by whose laws? on second thought dont answer that.) also stole the north american continent fair and square. there was this preacher who if i remember correctly distributed blankets amongst the native americans. blankets infected with some disease. and when challenged he said that god gave him the right or duty to clear the new land for the white man.

and almost everything you say about migrant legal or illegal is false. they are not criminals, lazy or what you wish to call them. illiterate yes. but very little else. migrants are amongst the hardest working people i have ever seen in my whole life. even in south africa they do the jobs no one wants for far less money. and if i understand correctly the americans are ten times as uptight as we are so migrants in america would probably work twenty times harder then the average american citizen.

you problem is you think you or your country is the only entity fit enough for earth. many of my friends make jokes revolving about the idea that americans dont know that there any other countries on earth. i dont know. they all must have met you.

and what do you have against spanish anyway. you hate people for not knowing english? does the whole world have to revolve about america? what percentage of americans knows more than one language? we in the rest of the world knows at least two. very often more.

there is an american expression. i believe it is get off your high horse. i advise you to do so josch.

one last thing. fair and square? study your history. mexico never signed texas away. santa anna did and he had no right to. or perhaps the european union should offer canada a piece of california in exchange for nova scotia. stealing is the correct word if that is what mexicans calls the taking of new mexico, california and texas.

[jwenting]

Wolfy, your personal attacks are out of line.
Josh said already he has nothing against Spanish. But everyone with a grain of sense can see that illegals are a scourge on society. They're highly criminal, most having multiple arrests for violent crimes to their names.
Immigrants (legal ones too) who refuse to learn the language of the land show they're not interested in becoming a part of society, that they're only there to leech money away from it at minimal expense to themselves.
They're the ones who go running around London with explosives strapped around their chest, or knifing the locals because they don't like white people.

Mexico lost Texas fair and square in a military defeat.
Maybe we should give the UK back to Italy, after all they never signed a piece of paper giving it back after the Romans left...

[bumsfeld]

That's why the democrats want the illegals to stay in American and become citizens... so they will have more people who will vote for them.

You cannot get citizenship, if you entered the country illegally!

[TheNNS]

>You cannot get citizenship, if you entered the country illegally!

yeah you can. it just takes forever.

[bumsfeld]

...
Mexico lost Texas fair and square in a military defeat.
...

Does that mean the US can keep Iraq?

[bumsfeld]

>You cannot get citizenship, if you entered the country illegally!

yeah you can. it just takes forever.

That is your opinion, not the truth!

[Ancient Dragon]

Does that mean the US can keep Iraq?

Probably -- but we don't want it. Besides, it wan't really a fair fight -- I don't call a playground bully beating up on a whip a fair fight either. In this case we were the bully and Sadaam was the wimp.

[bumsfeld]

You could always dump it after the oil is gone!

[jbennet]

Does that mean the US can keep Iraq?

Iraq is not "winnable".

[Lardmeister]

I think if you conquer a country, even if they had their pants down at that moment, you can keep it. After all, "give me back my land because I had my pants down" doesn't sound heroic.

[Lardmeister]

Just saw it on the news:
"The Sunday Mirror newspaper (UK) reported that up to 5,000 illegal immigrants have been able to secure security jobs in the UK, including guarding the prime minister's car."

[jbennet]

the home office is a piece of crap

[jwenting]

You cannot get citizenship, if you entered the country illegally!

Tell that to the millions who would get just that under the "immigration reform bill" or whatever euphemism they now use for what amounts to a wholesale amnesty for illegal aliens.

[jwenting]

Probably -- but we don't want it. Besides, it wan't really a fair fight -- I don't call a playground bully beating up on a whip a fair fight either. In this case we were the bully and Sadaam was the wimp.

The wimp however started the fight, so it's no problem with me that it wasn't fair. If the wimp is stupid enough to kick the bully in the back and he gets what he's got coming to him that's what he deserves.

Saddam kicked the US and the entire world since 1992, it took until 2003 until someone said "enough's enough" and kicked back.

And indeed, the US could keep Iraq going on historical precedent, but they don't want it.
Too much sand, too much trouble (Iraq is the cradle of civilisation, if by civilisation you mean organised warfare and political assassination).

[bumsfeld]

Tell that to the millions who would get just that under the "immigration reform bill" or whatever euphemism they now use for what amounts to a wholesale amnesty for illegal aliens.

Which country are you talking about? The Netherlands is not the only country out there!

[Ravenous Wolf]

>spanish
no. he does not have anything against spanish speaking people. he only has a problem with people unlike him. and his statement of them being able to beat mexico again could just as well have been that they could beat anybody in the world. lets face it. they can. but that gives him no reason to act like some superior creature. it fully denotes his ethnocentric nature.

>give UK back to italy
i never said that america should give back california, new mexico or texas. i merely siad that the mexicans have a right to call it stolen land. once again lets face a fact. if all the conquered and stolen land were to be given back then more than 50% of the world is going to be given back. depending on how far in history you want to go back we might even say that 100% would be displaced. but just because it is an unpleasant truth lets not hide from it. stolen land is stolen land.

>criminals
i have no doubt that a portion of migrants become criminals. but to say that all of them are criminals is stereotyping. in my experience, and south africa is rife with migrant both legal and legal; far worse than that of the USA, a very small portion of these people resort to crime. they are entrepeneurs mostly. they open up small business and try very hard. others accept the worst kinds of jobs with an unbelievable gratitude.

>by not wanting to learn english ... integration
learing a new language later in life is very difficult. still many does just that when given a fair chance. i can of course not speak for the spanish speaking migrants in USA but i have seen it many times in south africa. what might be problem is that these people never abandon their original language. like here they often speak french amongst themselves. this irritates south africans because they dont understand it. but that again only demonstrate xenophobia. and even if these migrants does not learn english in USA then their children definitely will.