0

I never said all were druggies.
All I said was that those who went there as druggies usually came back worse.

If I'd not been rejected for military service I'd likely be in the military now, though probably not in a warzone (by now I'd be too senior to be sent into battle, instead being confined to a headquarters' job).

Can't help it that I was born too late for Korea, too early for Afghanistan (we were never in Vietnam).

0

I don't think the Dutch were ever in Vietnam.

we weren't.
Indonesia, New Guinea, Korea, Iraq, Afghanistan.
And UN peacekeeping missions in (among other places) the Lebanon, Sinai, Cambodia, Bosnia, and Kosovo.

0

I never said all were druggies.
All I said was that those who went there as druggies usually came back worse.<<what you actually said:
But IMO NOTHING justifies drugs, and the majority of the drug cases in Vietnam were druggies before they went over. They just replaced pot with easy to get opium and heroine when over there.>>
If I'd not been rejected for military service I'd likely be in the military now, though probably not in a warzone (by now I'd be too senior to be sent into battle, instead being confined to a headquarters' job).

Can't help it that I was born too late for Korea, too early for Afghanistan (we were never in Vietnam).

It is amazing how many conservatives managed to dodge any actual military service - we have an administration full of warhawks who thought Iraq would be a walk in the park and yet they all had 'other priorities' during the Vietnam police action. You did not go to VN, did not spend any time in the military and still manage to 'know' what and who was a druggie. I have buddies who think if you haven't killed anyone, you don't get an opinion - but, sometimes, I wonder if at least some of neocons had pee'd in a foxhole, we might not have gone into Iraq

0

ah, the leftists are down to their usual practice again, uttering lies and abusive language in an attempt to bully others to stop telling the truth which they don't like.

"neocons" are the ultraleft wing of the Republican party, people who're more leftwing than most so-called "Democrats".
Iraq was a necessity. It was in fact mandated by the UN resolutions determining the terms to the 1991 ceasefire, and should have been initiated in 1995 when Iraq broke those terms.
But Billyboy Clinton was too weak, too soft, to do what needed be done.
Had he done his duty as commander in chief and president of the US Iraq would have been free and at peace in 1996, 9/11 would never have happened as AQ would have been destroyed in their hideouts in Afghanistan after the embassy bombings and the attack on the Cole.
Clinton gave AQ 5 years to prepare their network to survive the onslaught they knew would come after 9/11, he gave them the time to prepare their operations in Iraq.
There's your draftdodger behaviour.

0

yeah but why didnt they just do that then!

the government lied and the public to believe we were going to war because iraq had links to al-quaeda and 11/9 and that it had weapons of mas destructions which could be used within 45 minutes.

0

they didn't lie, though they may have acted on incorrect information.
There is a difference, you know...

0

http://www.vhfcn.org/stat.html

interesting statistics but i dont believe it. Seems to pro-us , especially the line

Myth: The United States lost the war in Vietnam.

The American military was not defeated in Vietnam.

well, south vietnam was defeated, the us faught a bloody war for many years, and north vieynam is still communist to this day. I call this a defeat.

0

ah, the leftists are down to their usual practice again, uttering lies and abusive language in an attempt to bully others to stop telling the truth which they don't like.

So you are attacking me for quoting you directly? You are saying that I am bullying you? Show me your truth - you specifically stated that you did not serve in the military; you specifically stated that most of the GIs who did drugs in VN were druggies before they went over, then you tried to change what you said.

"neocons" are the ultraleft wing of the Republican party, people who're more leftwing than most so-called "Democrats".

Man you are so wrong that there is nothing in this statement that even makes sense let alone approach the truth. "most younger neocons never experienced being left of center. They've always been "Reagan" Republicans."; they believe that the United States should not be ashamed to use its unrivaled power – forcefully if necessary – to promote its values around the world. Some even speak of the need to cultivate a US empire."

Iraq was a necessity. It was in fact mandated by the UN resolutions determining the terms to the 1991 ceasefire, and should have been initiated in 1995 when Iraq broke those terms.

Nope! Not even close.

But Billyboy Clinton was too weak, too soft, to do what needed be done. Had he done his duty as commander in chief and president of the US Iraq would have been free and at peace in 1996

So you are saying that Bill Clinton would have been such a good commander-in-chief that he would have done in a year what Bush2 couldn't do in 5? Here is what Cheney said about why Bush1 left Iraq (he was Sec of Defense)
"I would guess if we had gone in there, I would still have forces in Baghdad today. We'd be running the country. We would not have been able to get everybody out and bring everybody home....
And the question in my mind is how many additional American casualties is Saddam [Hussein] worth? And the answer is not that damned many. So, I think we got it right, both when we decided to expel him from Kuwait, but also when the president made the decision that we'd achieved our objectives and we were not going to go get bogged down in the problems of trying to take over and govern Iraq"

9/11 would never have happened as AQ would have been destroyed in their hideouts in Afghanistan after the embassy bombings and the attack on the Cole.Clinton gave AQ 5 years to prepare their network to survive the onslaught they knew would come after 9/11

Revisionist bull-pucky

he gave them the time to prepare their operations in Iraq.

Even Bush2 and Cheney admit there were no AQ in Iraq when they attacked - you gotta keep up with the talking point memos - remember, it was 'mushroom cloud', biological WMD, then AQ in Iraq, ending with <<sputter,sputter>> Saddam was evil (no one contests this one point).

There's your draftdodger behaviour.

name one civilian in the Bush administration who served his country in the military (signing up for AF reserves then never going to the meetings does not count)

0

>>name one civilian in the Bush administration who served his country in the military
I'm certain there are lots of them. Afterall there are 1.8 million civil service employees not counting postal service. That has to include thousands of prior military people.

Secretary of State: Colin Powell -- retired General.

Of the others found here, you'll have to research them yourself.

0

http://www.vhfcn.org/stat.html
interesting statistics but i dont believe it. Seems to pro-us --
well, south vietnam was defeated, the us faught a bloody war for many years, and north vieynam is still communist to this day. I call this a defeat.

I noticed that only Westmorland and Nixon were quoted - both of them had a horse in that race.

0

>>name one civilian in the Bush administration who served his country in the military
I'm certain there are lots of them. Afterall there are 1.8 million civil service employees not counting postal service. That has to include thousands of prior military people.
Secretary of State: Colin Powell -- retired General.
Of the others found here, you'll have to research them yourself.

Congratulations, you found the soldier in the Bush administration - the one that regrets his participation in the drumbeat to war; he was humiliated by the lie he was told and that he passed on to the UN in that fateful speech. I was surprised to find that 2 others were also in the military - hoist by my own bombast (heh,heh - I just love my sense of humor), I guess. Unless you are completely clueless, you know that the phrase "Bush Administration" means those members of the executive branch that he appointed or hired. Do you know what the civil service is? You don't get to count them as part of the Bush Admin.

Would you like to take on any of the other points I made?

Here is an interesting article written in '02 Drumbeat for war.

0

http://www.vhfcn.org/stat.html

interesting statistics but i dont believe it. Seems to pro-us , especially the line

well, south vietnam was defeated, the us faught a bloody war for many years, and north vieynam is still communist to this day. I call this a defeat.

The US military didn't loose a single engagement in Vietnam.
The US was defeated politically, not militarilly.
And it was defeated most of all by its own politicians placing rules of engagement on the military that made it impossible to make strategic gains.
Because of politically imposed constraints the USAF could not attack NVA air defence batteries and airfields for example, for fear that Soviet and Chinese crews there would get hurt.
The US Army was not allowed to hold ground taken from NVA forces, so they never gained a strategic position. Instead the grunts would storm up a hill under fire, clear the gooks from the top, and be lifted out by helicopter.
A week later they'd have to do it again when the gooks put fresh troops on top of that hill.
Such engagements were highly predictable. Their was no doubt that US troop strenght and firepower would win, all the communists had to do was kill enough of them to make (in combination with leftist propaganda, another area where the US politicians and public were their own undoing) cause the US public to get tired of the conflict and give up the struggle.

Had WW2 been run by the US government the way they ran Vietnam the Axis powers would have wond a handsome victory.
The US would likely be speaking Japanese by now, Europe German, with Asia split between the two.
Italy would likely have been allowed to colonise Africa.

0

>>name one civilian in the Bush administration who served his country in the military
I'm certain there are lots of them. Afterall there are 1.8 million civil service employees not counting postal service. That has to include thousands of prior military people.

Secretary of State: Colin Powell -- retired General.

Of the others found here, you'll have to research them yourself.

Including the president himself who was a fighter pilot assigned to continental air defense.

0

Including the president himself who was a fighter pilot assigned to continental air defense.

Sorry but you missed my qualification that stated you don't get to count anyone who joined the reserves then missed all the meetings (jumping to the head of the waiting list of 150 other Texans who were applying for AF Reserve).

0

Congratulations, you found the soldier in the Bush administration

Yup -- 1 for me and 0 for you :)

I guess. Unless you are completely clueless

I'm not -- I just like to act dumb sometimes.

Do you know what the civil service is?

Yes -- all of us who spent a lot of time on active duty know that. I'm not really as stupid as some people think you know.

Even Bush2 and Cheney admit there were no AQ in Iraq when they attacked

Yea, that's because Sadaam killed them all -- that's all those bodies in the mass graves our military people found all over Iraq. At least Sadaam knew how to deal with them.

0

Sorry but you missed my qualification that stated you don't get to count anyone who joined the reserves then missed all the meetings (jumping to the head of the waiting list of 150 other Texans who were applying for AF Reserve).

Wrong. The Guard aren't reservists.
He didn't miss "all the meetings".

But your hatred of anything not extreme leftist blurs your vision to the point where you see only he shining white light over the head of Stalin and thinks it's a halo when in fact it's the KGB's desklamp they shine in your eyes during an interrogation.

0

Wrong. The Guard aren't reservists.
He didn't miss "all the meetings".

But your hatred of anything not extreme leftist blurs your vision to the point where you see only he shining white light over the head of Stalin and thinks it's a halo when in fact it's the KGB's desklamp they shine in your eyes during an interrogation.

jwenting - you spew the most amazing, er 'stuff'. George W. Bush was a draft dodger who got into the Guard thru political influence. While in the guard, he essentially went AWOL and was not seen by his commander for over a year.

To be honest, I don't 'hate' much and don't like personal attacks but I enjoy a good discussion. Unfortunately, I don't get much from you but 'stuff' -- I will keep trying.

0

Yup -- 1 for me and 0 for you :)

Yeah, I am one of those rare guys who will actually learn something from discussions and admit when they 'mis-type' or are 'mis-quoted'.

Yea, that's because Sadaam killed them all -- that's all those bodies in the mass graves our military people found all over Iraq. At least Sadaam knew how to deal with them.

AD, I can't tell when you are being serious and when you are joking.

Oh, I get it - the Kurds were AQ! The definition "if they are dead, they must have been our enemy"

0

We (I) don't really know who all those dead people are. Saddam was so insane that he killed anyone who disagreed with him.

One thing we do know -- there were no living AQ or other insurgents in Iraq until after Bush invaded Iraq.

0

jwenting - you spew the most amazing, er 'stuff'. George W. Bush was a draft dodger who got into the Guard thru political influence. While in the guard, he essentially went AWOL and was not seen by his commander for over a year.

To be honest, I don't 'hate' much and don't like personal attacks but I enjoy a good discussion. Unfortunately, I don't get much from you but 'stuff' -- I will keep trying.

Hey Grim, don't waste your time with this fellow! We all kow he invents 'stuff' to make himself look important.

This topic has been dead for over six months. Start a new discussion instead.
Have something to contribute to this discussion? Please be thoughtful, detailed and courteous, and be sure to adhere to our posting rules.