How to create a hypocrite in C++ (or any other language)

[Jamblaster]

I think I have the answer to this:

First you get a self proclaimed expert who says it is absolutely wrong to ask for other people to write code for you (a la iamthewee) in this discussion here--> http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/cpp/threads/467572/question-a-car-class

Then you find this self proclaimed expert begging for other people to give them code here--> http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/cpp/threads/144681/way-to-do-this

Generally speaking, whenever you find a narcissist who thinks they know it all and claims to be an expert you also find a hypocrite with an amoral personality.

Personally my experience is that the less you know the more you are capable of learning.

With "Experts" like these on this site it isn't surprising to me that honest people with actual good intentions (more than just to propagate their own fantasies of grandiose and or superior intellect) who offer help on here are branded as unhelpful and verbally chastised by those same "Experts".

Just wanted to let everyone know on here that these so-called experts aren't always what they appear to be and anyone who would ask for code and then tell others who would do the same thing that they are bad or ignorant in some way isn't really an expert in anything at all except serving their own small self interests.

One final note is that this message about the experts on here (obviously) isn't aimed at any of the actually helpful people like ddanbe and ancient dragon (who I have seen many helpful comments by and found no evidence of hypocracy from) so you can disregard this post. I have a lot of respect for people who ask for and or offer help to others, but I sincerely disdain those with small minds who think that they know everything. Anyway, I don't think I am going to use this site anymore and will have to find one which offers less negativity and more help. In the few posts which I have had on here asking for help I have generally had to solve the problem myself (and that is always the best way right?) and when I haven't been able to I appreciate the help I was given. However, one rotten apple can ruin a barrel so I think I'll just find another barrel to swim in, thanks. Don't bother responding here becasue I'm sure it will just be more negativity by those incapable of being both intelligent and civil so...

[deceptikon]

This thread is clearly inflammatory, but I'm letting it slide because there's potential for good discussion iff everyone remains civil. Please keep that in mind, thanks.

[Ancient Dragon]

In the few posts which I have had on here asking for help I have generally had to solve the problem myself (and that is always the best way right?)

Actually -- yes, that is right. We are here to "help" you solve the problem, not solve it for you. You learn a great deal more if you are forced to research the problem and write the code yourself. Programming is all about problem solving, not about getting someone else to do your work for you. How long do you think you will last on a job if you can't solve programming problems?

Additionally, almost everyone here are unpaid, they post here and try to help you out with only the goodness of their own hearts. So don't get mad when volunteers ask you to post the code you try so that they can help you. Instead, you should be greatful for whatever help you get. If you want paid tutors then it's going to cost you a lot more than you have to pay to ask questions on DaniWeb (which is free).

And don't get too upset if someone disagrees with you. Heaven only knows the number of times I've been critisized for things :) I'm not right about everything, and all the regulars here knows it. My post cound only means I'm a blabbermouth, has no relationship to being an expert at anything.

[mike_2000_17]

First you get a self proclaimed expert who says it is absolutely wrong to ask for other people to write code for you

It is absolutely wrong to ask for other people to write code for you. That is stated in the Rules of Daniweb:

"Do provide evidence of having done some work yourself if posting questions from school or work assignments"

We get a lot of people who simply post their homework question and demand to have full working code for it. We generally tell them that nobody will do their homework for them, because it is (1) against the rules, (2) probably against the school's ethics policies, and (3) not helpful to them, as they should do their homeworks by themselves if they want to learn.

Then you find this self proclaimed expert begging for other people to give them code here--> http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/cpp/threads/144681/way-to-do-this

The two threads you are referring to are 5 years apart. I don't know about you, but 5 years is plenty enough of time to go from needing help to being able to help others. And I'm having trouble finding where iamthwee self-proclaims to be an expert.

It's hard to take you seriously. This sounds a bit too much like you're trying to smear iamthwee because he ruffled a few of your feathers.

It's no secret that iamthwee can be a bit obtuse at times, even as far as getting dangerously near a "keep it pleasant" infraction. His comment directed at you in that thread was a bit blunt, that's all, forget about it and move on, just like in real life.

As far as your code is concerned, deceptikon gave you some constructive criticism about it, and I largely agree with them. Your code breaks a number of conventions, uses non-standard headers / functions, uses a class name with a leading underscore character (which is forbidden by the C++ ISO standard), and makes abusive use of comments (and does not use conventional commenting tags such as doxygen tags). I understand it can be hard to swallow criticism on code that you felt good about, but that's how you learn, that's how we all learned.

Generally speaking, whenever you find a narcissist who thinks they know it all and claims to be an expert you also find a hypocrite.

I claim to be an "expert", but I think it's fair to do so when it seems to be the concensus from people around you. It would be false modesty to claim otherwise.

Personally my experience is that the less you know the more you are capable of learning.

I prefer this Mark Twain quote:

"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so."

I think I have the answer to this:

First you get a self proclaimed expert who says it is absolutely wrong to ask for other people to write code for you (a la iamthewee) in this discussion here--> http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/cpp/threads/467572/question-a-car-class

Then you find this self proclaimed expert begging for other people to give them code here--> http://www.daniweb.com/software-development/cpp/threads/144681/way-to-do-this

Generally speaking, whenever you find a narcissist who thinks they know it all and claims to be an expert you also find a hypocrite with an amoral personality.

Personally my experience is that the less you know the more you are capable of learning.

With "Experts" like these on this site it isn't surprising to me that honest people with actual good intentions (more than just to propagate their own fantasies of grandiose and or superior intellect) who offer help on here are branded as unhelpful and verbally chastised by those same "Experts".

Just wanted to let everyone know on here that these so-called experts aren't always what they appear to be and anyone who would ask for code and then tell others who would do the same thing that they are bad or ignorant in some way isn't really an expert in anything at all except serving their own small self interests.

One final note is that this message about the experts on here (obviously) isn't aimed at any of the actually helpful people like ddanbe and ancient dragon (who I have seen many helpful comments by and found no evidence of hypocracy from) so you can disregard this post. I have a lot of respect for people who ask for and or offer help to others, but I sincerely disdain those with small minds who think that they know everything. Anyway, I don't think I am going to use this site anymore and will have to find one which offers less negativity and more help. In the few posts which I have had on here asking for help I have generally had to solve the problem myself (and that is always the best way right?) and when I haven't been able to I appreciate the help I was given. However, one rotten apple can ruin a barrel so I think I'll just find another barrel to swim in, thanks. Don't bother responding here becasue I'm sure it will just be more negativity by those incapable of being both intelligent and civil so...

In reply to this all I have to say is:

[Gribouillis]

I disapprove inflammatory debates in daniweb. I had one once with a knowledgeable programmer and some time later, he ceased to connect. I think he had too strong convictions and he wanted everybody to agree.

[deceptikon]

I had one once with a knowledgeable programmer and some time later, he ceased to connect. I think he had too strong convictions and he wanted everybody to agree.

How much time is "some time"? Maybe he just left for other perfectly legitimate reasons. Even if your assumption about his motivation are accurate, it's impossible to avoid offending everyone. I'd much rather see civil airing of grievances and productive discussion than let things silently stew.

[ddanbe]

Sometimes people find your post offensive, because first, you have to write it down in words(a mail is different from a phone call), second, not all people(me included) understand all the subtleties of the English language.
Example: You can ask or demand an answer. Demand will be rather rude to an English speaking person, while a French speaking person will find that most natural.

Well really. Of all the load of nonsense to get your knickers in a twist about. Having read all the 'offending' articles, I can't see anything in them. iamthwee actually asked for "sample code", all of 5 years ago, as mentioned.

I hope Jamblaster checks his facts before swinging his handbag again. 'Sigh...'

We've had too many of these thin-skinned "I'm offended and I'm taking my toys home with me" outbursts lately. While I don't like to see anybody leave a community, sometimes it pays to take a break from something, mature a bit, and then hopefully have another go.

[Reverend Jim]

Let's keep in mind that while there are genuine "experts" here on daniweb, there are also a lot of regular folk like me who are competent, but far from experts. I may not know more things than the person posting a question, just different things, so I may be answering a question one day and asking one the next. I also have the benefit of many years of experience which have taught me that there are many cases where the slick or clever solution is not the desirable (ie maintainable) solution.

[deceptikon]

I also have the benefit of many years of experience which have taught me that there are many cases where the slick or clever solution is not the desirable (ie maintainable) solution.

That's a good point. I've found (also through experience) to start with the simple and obvious solution and only get clever when that doesn't work out for some reason. The reason is usually performance, but that's not as common as some would have you believe.

[Ancient Dragon]

The reason is usually performance, but that's not as common as some would have you believe.

At least not any more with present-day fast computers. When I started out in the 1980s computers were ungodly slow, so we had to get every bit of speed that we could muster. Many of the things we did back then I wouldn't bother with today.

[Dani]

It seems from your post that you took offense to iamthwee's personality, but yet you found members such as ddanbe and Ancient Dragon very helpful and pleasant. Well ... we're a community of over one million members. Like any community in the world, there are going to be people you like, and people that rub you the wrong way. When you say you're going to leave the site due to a poor interaction with one of our members, I can't help but think that it's near synonymous to you wanting to move out of your otherwise pleasant neighborhood, with neighbors you're friendly with, because someone cut you off and directed a serious case of road rage towards you on your way to the local supermarket.

Iamthwee is known for needing an attitude adjustment from time to time. That's why when you look at his member profile, he only has a 59% Post Quality Score, as opposed to 85% for Ancient Dragon or 93% for ddanbe. The community, as a whole, via member profiles, tend to be pretty good at weeding out the best from the worst. But that's like any real world community too. Only, in the real world, the more arrogant of the bunch don't wear a scarlet letter.

[Dani]

P.S. Different personalities is what makes the world go 'round. I think that's what makes for the best community ... that there's always the super arrogant one, and the super funny one, and the smart one, and the egotistical one, and the extra helpful one, ...

[ddanbe]

Different personalities is what makes the world go 'round.

Indeed! If all members of DaniWeb would be like me, this would be a very booooring site I guess. ;o)

I take the point of looking at stats, but before we start assassinating personalities, perhaps it would be best to focus on the merits of this particular case.

[ernie.cordell]

It is an inflammatory post, but it's enjoying a nice bit of reasonable discussion, so perhaps a reaction of some kind is in order. You can tell quite a bit from the title of a post, in this case, when to turn the other way -- unless you must administer some executive action. When I saw hypo-crite, I wanted to make sure I hadn't missed something in the latest standard.

Sometimes how inflammatory something appears may derive from the forms of expression used: Some of us may have a florid style that is interpreted as hostility. On many of the memos I wrote to my team, I only intended to be thorough, descriptive and provide detail: Yet it seemed that members of the team took the volume of the message as an indication of anger. On another message, I addressed an issue to someone who had previously expressed concern to her and 'the gang.' She took it to mean that I was insinuating she ran with a pack of hoodlums. I just got tired of using the word 'team' all the time.

While it is important to observe language differences that can be at the heart of malentendue, sometimes what seems an ad hominem attack is just that.

Not to reawaken ill will (he's a growing boy and needs his sleep), comments exist in just about every language (I can't think of any noteworthy exceptions). I should think, for that reason, that just about anyone who has cut code in one of those languages would be entitled to an opinion on good commenting style and capable of offering advice on the subject. Concurrently, commenting a simple class shouldn't be so challenging as to require special knowledge in C++.

I notice that Ancient Dragon speaks of a time when speed measures drove us to extremes and professors recommmended ample commenting and ignored its excess rather than encouraging its neglect, while systems analysts paced the floor over the storage cost of those things of which we now take for granted.

In order not to raise ire that may have calmed, I won't address further the merits of the plaint, the words that inspired it or the worthiness of this post. I do feel, however, all of us involved in this post can discern the difference between the reporting of fact and superfluous and derogatory assaults.

[vegaseat]

I have to admire the folks that help on the C++ forum. The language can be tough for beginners and the questions are endless. So, I am hiding out on the Python forum, where programming can be downright fun.

If I remember it correctly, I got my Hypocrite Medal during a battle of words on the C++ forum. Was it a memory leak problem? I forgot!

[deceptikon]

I got my Hypocrite Medal during a battle of words on the C++ forum

It's not easy to be consistent. Also, one's opinions may change over time, which can smell like hypocrisy but is really just adjusting to new experiences and knowledge.

Also, one's opinions may change over time, which can smell like hypocrisy but is really just adjusting to new experiences and knowledge.

So true +1.