Destiny - Page 2

[Sturm]

I do not believe in other deities because they are false; by your statement, you claim that my Lord is false as well. To me, all that states is that you refuse to test his word, and I sorrow for you over that.

Yes, sheep need shepards. I presume that, from the emphasis you placed on that, you would consider yourself to be a goat instead.

Do you know how arrogant, dogmatic, stupid, and misled you sound?

The Dark Ages are called so because it was a time when the church ruled.

Yes. If you are an atheist, then you will go to hell, and from there to the lake of fire. There is only one escape from that fate, and that is through the salvation offered by Jesus Christ. Without that, you have no hope.

This Jesus Christ guy does not seem very compassionate. Isn't the devil supposed to do awful things? This Jesus Christ guy seems to be a lot more sadistic, cruel, twisted, insane, and evil things than the devil.

Should I fear hell, a hell that I do not believe exists. Should I seek the salvation of my heart, only to condemn my brain to hell?

Gods are fragile things, they can be killed with a whiff of science and a dose of common sense. Our contemporaries will look back on this age and wonder why we practiced barbarity.

If free will does not exist, then you cannot posess it. If you do not posess free will, then I submit that your life is pointless.

Yes my life is pointless, as is yours. My life has no meaning, nor does yours. My life does not mean ANYTHING, I exist only to die. Does that make you feel better? (note, I was not being sarcastic)

[EnderX]

Do you know how arrogant, dogmatic, stupid, and misled you sound?

To one who has rejected that which my Lord has offered? I have a few ideas...

For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The Dark Ages are called so because it was a time when the church ruled.

The Catholic institution is not the Church. Catholicism did have great political power in that time, (and still does to a lesser extent even in this day,) but it is a counterfeit of the true Church. It looks close enough to match on the surface, for one who is unfamiliar with the real thing, as a well-made counterfeit bill will look like its legitimate counterpart, but that is all. The Roman Catholic system is basically the ancient Baal worship of Babylon with a nice 'churchy' cloth spread over it to hide the truth. The Catholic institution has always attempted to spread darkness in the guise of light. However, the Church itself has always fought to spread the freedom that comes from knowing God personally.

This Jesus Christ guy does not seem very compassionate. Isn't the devil supposed to do awful things? This Jesus Christ guy seems to be a lot more sadistic, cruel, twisted, insane, and evil things than the devil.

Please give me some examples of what you mean...I do not know of anything such as you describe in the scriptures, unless you are referring to death and hell and the lake of fire themselves. And in that case, it is our own sin, our own fault and failings, that condemn us there. Indeed, what Jesus Christ did goes beyond mere compassion; he, being without sin, gave himself as a sacrificial offering, paying the bloodprice of our sins himself, that we might not have to suffer the true cost of sin. To me, that shows the great love and grace of the Lord.

Should I fear hell, a hell that I do not believe exists. Should I seek the salvation of my heart, only to condemn my brain to hell?

Yes. It does not matter whether you believe in hell, any more than it matters whether or not you believe the earth is round, or that it orbits the sun at ~93,000,000 miles distance. What you choose to believe does not change what is real. And please, pray tell me, how is seeking salvation condemning your brain to hell? Unlike what you apparently believe, you don't have to set your brain aside at the Church entrance. Look at the illogic of that idea; if you believe (as I do) that God gave you the intelligence you posess, then why would you believe he doesn't want you to use it?

Gods are fragile things, they can be killed with a whiff of science and a dose of common sense. Our contemporaries will look back on this age and wonder why we practiced barbarity.

Science as you understand it would not be possible without the Judeo-Christian backing that underlies it. Think: pretty much every source agrees that the ancient Greeks had a fairly large amount of the same information about the world that we have; so how come they weren't able to create some of the same scientific marvels and wonders? Because in a world ruled by Chaos, whether that of 'The Gods' or that of random chance, scientific laws are meaningless. It took the idea that there was one Creator, Who had crafted the laws of the world from the first to the last, for the idea that said laws were knowable to emerge.

Yes my life is pointless, as is yours. My life has no meaning, nor does yours. My life does not mean ANYTHING, I exist only to die. Does that make you feel better? (note, I was not being sarcastic)

No. How would knowing that someone has condemned themselves to eternal suffering make me feel better? As I have already stated, if you continue to hold to these beliefs, then I sorrow for you, and will pray for you.

[Sturm]

Look at the illogic of that idea; if you believe (as I do) that God gave you the intelligence you posess, then why would you believe he doesn't want you to use it?

Because apparently he wants me to believe in absolute nonsense. That does not sound intelligent to me.

Do you believe that the majority of the world is going to go to hell?

What proof exists that hell exists? (Besides of course the infallible bible :-p)

[joshSCH]

This Jesus Christ guy does not seem very compassionate. Isn't the devil supposed to do awful things? This Jesus Christ guy seems to be a lot more sadistic, cruel, twisted, insane, and evil things than the devil.

Should I fear hell, a hell that I do not believe exists. Should I seek the salvation of my heart, only to condemn my brain to hell?

Gods are fragile things, they can be killed with a whiff of science and a dose of common sense. Our contemporaries will look back on this age and wonder why we practiced barbarity.

Yes my life is pointless, as is yours. My life has no meaning, nor does yours. My life does not mean ANYTHING, I exist only to die. Does that make you feel better? (note, I was not being sarcastic)

I agree with you completely, as I'm sure you know by now. These Christians twist everything so that their beliefs hold strong. Don't worry about them man, they are insecure.. They could not live if there was no false God to praise, and no eternal hell to fear.

The Catholic institution is not the Church. Catholicism did have great political power in that time, (and still does to a lesser extent even in this day,) but it is a counterfeit of the true Church. It looks close enough to match on the surface, for one who is unfamiliar with the real thing, as a well-made counterfeit bill will look like its legitimate counterpart, but that is all. The Roman Catholic system is basically the ancient Baal worship of Babylon with a nice 'churchy' cloth spread over it to hide the truth. The Catholic institution has always attempted to spread darkness in the guise of light. However, the Church itself has always fought to spread the freedom that comes from knowing God personally.

Um, The Catholic institution is the church. And yes, they were very powerful throughout the dark ages. Look at the Christian crusades! The Catholic church pretty much had their own army, and fought their own war. Today, the Catholic religion has the most members of any other religion in the world. They were the first Christians, and the only true followers of your jesus Christ. So, if anything, all the other sects of Christianity have gone against Jesus' original teachings and his disciples.

Please give me some examples of what you mean...I do not know of anything such as you describe in the scriptures, unless you are referring to death and hell and the lake of fire themselves. And in that case, it is our own sin, our own fault and failings, that condemn us there. Indeed, what Jesus Christ did goes beyond mere compassion; he, being without sin, gave himself as a sacrificial offering, paying the bloodprice of our sins himself, that we might not have to suffer the true cost of sin. To me, that shows the great love and grace of the Lord.

It's all a load of bull.. can't you see? As sturm said, intelligence and a little common sense will help you to realize the truth..

Yes. It does not matter whether you believe in hell, any more than it matters whether or not you believe the earth is round, or that it orbits the sun at ~93,000,000 miles distance. What you choose to believe does not change what is real. And please, pray tell me, how is seeking salvation condemning your brain to hell? Unlike what you apparently believe, you don't have to set your brain aside at the Church entrance. Look at the illogic of that idea; if you believe (as I do) that God gave you the intelligence you posess, then why would you believe he doesn't want you to use it?

haha.. you speak of logic as if you understand it.. The idea of a supreme being is not logical.. and yes, the church does require you to forfeit your brain, and any intellect that you have. The Christian religion is a brainwashing clan.. try to escape from it, and you will be intellectually saved..

Science as you understand it would not be possible without the Judeo-Christian backing that underlies it. Think: pretty much every source agrees that the ancient Greeks had a fairly large amount of the same information about the world that we have; so how come they weren't able to create some of the same scientific marvels and wonders? Because in a world ruled by Chaos, whether that of 'The Gods' or that of random chance, scientific laws are meaningless. It took the idea that there was one Creator, Who had crafted the laws of the world from the first to the last, for the idea that said laws were knowable to emerge.

The ancient greeks had the same information about the world as we have today? Haha.. my ass.. Our technology and knowledge of the universe is far superior to any other nation that has ever lived on this Earth..

No. How would knowing that someone has condemned themselves to eternal suffering make me feel better? As I have already stated, if you continue to hold to these beliefs, then I sorrow for you, and will pray for you.

The fact of the matter is, God does not exist. Religion has evolved over the years to encompass science, and our technology. Religion is required by the weak for support and guidance.. In fact, there is a positive correlation between atheism and intelligence. I have posted the website in the God vs. Atheism forum. The more intelligent one is, the less likely he is to believe in God. So, are you trying to tell me that the world's finest are going to burn in hell? The richest, most accomplished, and most intelligent of all the word?

[Sturm]

The bible and religion is not only illogical its repulsive. As the video points out, the says that everyone that works on Sundays should be put to death. Does this sound good? Does this sound logical? IT SOUNDS SICK.

for six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does work on the Sabbath day must be put to death.
-Exodus 31:15

This means that most of the world should be put to death. Does this sound logical?

Anyone who blasphemes the Lord must be put to death. The entire assembly must stone him.
-Lev 24:16

This sounds barbaric.

If your hand or your foot causes you sin, cut it off and throw it away.
-Matthew 18:7-9

This sounds absolutely retarded. Only idiots would do this. If you want to amputate yourself you need to seek medical help.

The law of the Lord is perfect.
-Psalm 19:7

This law does not sound perfect it sounds disgusting!

[christina>you]

Do you actually think I am going to hell because I am an atheist?

This is a verse in the Bible where Jesus is speaking: "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me." John 14:6

I contend that you and I are both atheists. When you understand why you dismiss all other gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

ONLY SHEEP NEED SHEPHERDS.

I am certainly not an atheist. Atheists are as EnderX said, they don't believe in any kind of deity.

Yes. If you are an atheist, then you will go to hell, and from there to the lake of fire. There is only one escape from that fate, and that is through the salvation offered by Jesus Christ. Without that, you have no hope.

Exactly.

I do not know for Christina>you, as I do not know her other than by this board, but for myself, I am not an atheist; I believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Ditto! :)

I will be praying for you, Sturm.

As will I.
And EnderX, I commend the way you handle situations like this and I also commend the way you stand up for our Lord.

Do you know how arrogant, dogmatic, stupid, and misled you sound?

Do you know how arrogant you sound?

This Jesus Christ guy does not seem very compassionate. Isn't the devil supposed to do awful things? This Jesus Christ guy seems to be a lot more sadistic, cruel, twisted, insane, and evil things than the devil.

So you're basically saying that Jesus is not compassionate even though He was crucified for your sins?? HOW is He in any way sadistic, cruel, twisted, insane, and evil? Are you ignorant? Have you even researched anything about Christ? If you're going to point out these things, support it with evidence!

Should I fear hell, a hell that I do not believe exists. Should I seek the salvation of my heart, only to condemn my brain to hell?

Wait, did I read this right?! Or did you just contradict yourself. It doesn't make a bit of sense.

Gods are fragile things, they can be killed with a whiff of science and a dose of common sense. Our contemporaries will look back on this age and wonder why we practiced barbarity.

Yeah, I'm sure. That's why Judaism has been around for thousands of years right? =/ And after Jesus, Christianity. And look at how far it's come!

Yes my life is pointless, as is yours. My life has no meaning, nor does yours. My life does not mean ANYTHING, I exist only to die. Does that make you feel better? (note, I was not being sarcastic)

Your life is a gift from God. Cherish it. Don't be selfish to the ones who's lives are cut short.

The bible and religion is not only illogical its repulsive. As the video points out, the says that everyone that works on Sundays should be put to death. Does this sound good? Does this sound logical? IT SOUNDS SICK.

What video are you talking about?!?! Jesus never said that anyone who labored on the Sabbath should be put to death. He only said that the Sabbath should be kept holy.

This sounds absolutely retarded. Only idiots would do this. If you want to amputate yourself you need to seek medical help.

Do you take everything literally?! It isn't telling you to literally amputate a part of your body! Goodness. The Bible is poetic, Jesus used analogies, words are not taken literal all the time.

[Geek 8-)]

What is with all these people bashing my Savior?

He died for you.

[joshSCH]

Haha.. no.. There is no god. It really doesn't matter how I try to prove it to you.. you will just twist it around to fit your beliefs.

>>Do you take everything literally?! It isn't telling you to literally amputate a part of your body! Goodness. The Bible is poetic, Jesus used analogies, words are not taken literal all the time.

Christina, I thought you took the bible literally? This is exactly why the majority of Christians do NOT take the bible literally at all.. but you said that you did.

And whats up w/ everyone disagreeing with me about free will and omniscience? I am not over analyzing it.. you are just under analyzing it. The two cannot exist together at all.. The definition of free will is "The ability or discretion to choose". How does anyone have the ability to choose if God already knows what you will choose? You only have one choice, therefore it is not free will! And since God created everyone, and some people would be destined to go to hell through this predestination system, then it is God who is condemning people to eternal damnation before they are even born!

[Sturm]

Do you take everything literally?! It isn't telling you to literally amputate a part of your body! Goodness. The Bible is poetic, Jesus used analogies, words are not taken literal all the time.

Most christians take the bible literally. Either way, this "holy book" of yours is disgusting. The video is here.

Why do all these religious people pray for me? What exactly are you praying for? In your opinion, I am a dirty sinner that has condemned myself to eternal suffering and pain. How will praying help me?

[christina>you]

>>Do you take everything literally?! It isn't telling you to literally amputate a part of your body! Goodness. The Bible is poetic, Jesus used analogies, words are not taken literal all the time.

Christina, I thought you took the bible literally? This is exactly why the majority of Christians do NOT take the bible literally at all.. but you said that you did.

NO, I told you we took it literally in the terms that we believe in every part of the Bible... the miracles, the teachings, etc.

And whats up w/ everyone disagreeing with me about free will and omniscience? I am not over analyzing it.. you are just under analyzing it. The two cannot exist together at all.. The definition of free will is "The ability or discretion to choose". How does anyone have the ability to choose if God already knows what you will choose? You only have one choice, therefore it is not free will! And since God created everyone, and some people would be destined to go to hell through this predestination system, then it is God who is condemning people to eternal damnation before they are even born!

I don't even know what to say anymore... I've told you everything I know and I'm not going to repeat it.

Most christians take the bible literally. Either way, this "holy book" of yours is disgusting. The video is here.

That video is disgusting! It doesn't prove anything, all it does is twist the words of the Bible into their own sickening translation. That was ignorant. Btw, did you even realize what kind of video that was? You simply found it on Google by typing in the words proving, Bible, and repulsive. Of course the makers of that video are going to try and make you believe the Bible is evil, you knew that when you decided to watch it!

Why do all these religious people pray for me? What exactly are you praying for? In your opinion, I am a dirty sinner that has condemned myself to eternal suffering and pain. How will praying help me?

We don't have the power nor the ability to call you a sinner, that's not our place. We don't condemn you and neither does Jesus. "For God sent not his son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved."
And I'm a Christian by faith not by religion. Yes, it's my religion but I don't like being stereotyped and put into the category of 'religious.'

Does it make you angry when we pray for you or other people?

[christina>you]

The information on the video even says:
"By watching this short video, you will be able to prove to yourself that the Bible is repulsive."

I think you should research it yourself without watching crazy videos like that.

[joshSCH]

I don't even know what to say anymore... I've told you everything I know and I'm not going to repeat it.

Yea.. And you know how I feel too.. It's frustrating that I keep saying something, but you don't understand it. (And vice versa for you)

Does it make you angry when we pray for you or other people?

I do have to say that it's rather annoying.. Everywhere I go there are Christians.. If you tell them you are atheist then they just try to convert you or pray for you as if they are better than you or know more than you. Everywhere I go, Christianity is staring me straight in the face. And I thought this country was supposed to be unbiased towards religion. At my work, the managers always have us pray. At school, there is always prayer. It's always on T.V. or in a magazine.. it is really hard to avoid.

[christina>you]

I do have to say that it's rather annoying.. Everywhere I go there are Christians.. If you tell them you are atheist then they just try to convert you or pray for you as if they are better than you or know more than you. Everywhere I go, Christianity is staring me straight in the face. And I thought this country was supposed to be unbiased towards religion. At my work, the managers always have us pray. At school, there is always prayer. It's always on T.V. or in a magazine.. it is really hard to avoid.

Well I'm sorry that you feel like that. You must live in a religious place then... because where I used to work, the people smoked marijuana in the back room and cussed ridiculously ever day. We don't pray in school. And there are very few that can be considered 'Christians.' The worst part is, I live in the freaking Bible Belt! It should be more religious here than anywhere, almost.

[Geek 8-)]

That video didn't even make sense. It had a verse from Exodus about keeping the Sabbath holy and then tried to use it against today's society.

Do you know who wrote Exodus?! - Moses.
Do you know where it's located in the Bible? - The Old Testament.

Today's Christians use the New Testament as a guide for our lives not the Old.

I also suggest you research these things before you fall for false statements.

[joshSCH]

Well I'm sorry that you feel like that. You must live in a religious place then... because where I used to work, the people smoked marijuana in the back room and cussed ridiculously ever day. We don't pray in school. And there are very few that can be considered 'Christians.' The worst part is, I live in the freaking Bible Belt! It should be more religious here than anywhere, almost.

Yes, well I would certainly switch cities with you any day! The south is extremely conservative.. and no one even follows the "no religion in school" laws.. There are prayers at football and basketball games.. in the morning announcements, etc. People are too nice.. Our city council even had the Chippendale Dancers thrown in jail a couple months ago! I hate it here, and I'm ready to leave :(

[Sturm]

I think you should research it yourself without watching crazy videos like that.

You can claim that the video is crazy but you cannot deny the quotes from the bible in the video. The bible is immoral, sick, repulsive, and wrong. Yet ministers somehow always manage to be on the moral "high ground", if ministers can take the moral high ground, than so can rapists, Nazis, serial killers, etc. The ideology Christianity preaches is unfit for kids and probably should have a label on it that reads "for mature audiences only" (like some of my favorite D&D books). Yet people swear on it, and read to their kids.

Do you question your beliefs Christina? Do you analyze your opinion? Do you have doubts, questions, anything? Or do you blindly follow a path that clearly leads to a cliff?(or are you just myopic?)

Yes, well I would certainly switch cities with you any day! The south is extremely conservative.. and no one even follows the "no religion in school" laws.. There are prayers at football and basketball games.. in the morning announcements, etc. People are too nice.. Our city council even had the Chippendale Dancers thrown in jail a couple months ago! I hate it here, and I'm ready to leave

I am lucky enough to live in the north.... On the note of regions, did you know Switzerland is comprised of almost 85% atheists?

[christina>you]

You can claim that the video is crazy but you cannot deny the quotes from the bible in the video. The bible is immoral, sick, repulsive, and wrong. Yet ministers somehow always manage to be on the moral "high ground", if ministers can take the moral high ground, than so can rapists, Nazis, serial killers, etc. The ideology Christianity preaches is unfit for kids and probably should have a label on it that reads "for mature audiences only" (like some of my favorite D&D books). Yet people swear on it, and read to there kids.

Actually, did you read Geek's post??? He explained it pretty well.
Today's Christians do not use the OT as a guide for our lives anymore! You need to research the Bible before you make your decisions based on a bs Google video that some crazy person decided to make for the purpose of deceiving people who don't know any better. Do you even realize what you wrote just now? You typed every idea that was in that stupid video. Research it yourself! Those verses in the OT don't apply to our lives now!

Do you question your beliefs Christina? Do you analyze your opinion? Do you have doubts, questions, anything? Or do you blindly follow a path that clearly leads to a cliff?(or are you just myopic?)

No I don't question my beliefs. It is my faith that keeps me.

[christina>you]

That video didn't even make sense. It had a verse from Exodus about keeping the Sabbath holy and then tried to use it against today's society.

Do you know who wrote Exodus?! - Moses.
Do you know where it's located in the Bible? - The Old Testament.

Today's Christians use the New Testament as a guide for our lives not the Old.

I also suggest you research these things before you fall for false statements.

Exactly!

[joshSCH]

I am lucky enough to live in the north.... On the note of regions, did you know Switzerland is comprised of almost 85% atheists?

No kidding? I had no idea.. Perhaps I should move there lol ;) Which country has the highest percent of atheists? I think the European nations have a higher percent of atheism than the U.S., but I could be wrong.

No I don't question my beliefs. It is my faith that keeps me.

Maybe you should. It isn't good to blindly follow something b/c your parents do or your friends do. Just step back, and think about it as I did. Even though I live in a very conservative town, my entire family is orthodox catholic, and most of my friends are Christian, I discovered the truth. You've just got to use common sense and intellect, which you seem to have plenty of both.

[christina>you]

Maybe you should. It isn't good to blindly follow something b/c your parents do or your friends do. Just step back, and think about it as I did. Even though I live in a very conservative town, my entire family is orthodox catholic, and most of my friends are Christian, I discovered the truth. You've just got to use common sense and intellect, which you seem to have plenty of both.

I don't follow it blindly. I have the truth.
I'm not going to leave something that has been with me since the day I was born. I've witnessed too many miracles, I've seen too many answered prayers to turn back now.

[Sturm]

Questioning is vital to be an intellectual. Without questions, without doubt, a person cannot claim to think, to understand, to analyze, to process anything. One must always be doubtful. For ignorance and acceptance is the beginning, and end, of a person.

I don't follow it blindly. I have the truth.

Absolute truth is never known and never will be.

If you were presented with extreme evidence that absolutely proved that god did not exist. Would you still believe in him?

[twomers]

>> follow something b/c your parents do or your friends do.
Christina>you (can' I just call you Christina for now on?), honestly, do you follow Christianity now because of what your parents/friends do? Did it start off that way? Is it now that way?

Can't people just accept that some people have some views that others just can't agree to. Consider the views of the OP - they're mad (really) :) who has dissed him for putting forward such an obscure idea? Nobody did seriously. Why do you feel the necessity to give out to Christians? Just accept that they have certain views. Does it hurt you?

[christina>you]

Questioning is vital to be an intellectual. Without questions, without doubt, a person cannot claim to think, to understand, to analyze, to process anything. One must always be doubtful. For ignorance and acceptance is the beginning, and end, of a person.

That doesn't make sense. So on a test, I should always doubt my answers? =/ Don't try to explain to me why I should question my faith, it's been proven already to me.

Absolute truth is never known and never will be.

Well, I've found absolute truth.

If you were presented with extreme evidence that absolutely proved that god did not exist. Would you still believe in him?

That will never happen, and even if it did, yes. I would still believe. I'm never going to deny Jesus. He gave His life for me. Like I said, I've seen too many miracles and too many answered prayers to believe anything else.

[christina>you]

>> follow something b/c your parents do or your friends do.
Christina>you (can' I just call you Christina for now on?), honestly, do you follow Christianity now because of what your parents/friends do? Did it start off that way? Is it now that way?

Yes, you can call me Christina.
I don't follow Christianity, I follow Christ. And I do this because I've witnessed it first-hand what it can do for a life that's been changed, such as my own.
My mother used to be Buddhist (born and raised in Korea) - My father used to be a heavy drinker/smoker. But they're both Christians now. So yes you can say I was born into a Christian home, but I haven't always been 'devoted.'
Only one of my friends is a true Christian.

Can't people just accept that some people have some views that others just can't agree to. Consider the views of the OP - they're mad (really) :) who has dissed him for putting forward such an obscure idea? Nobody did seriously. Why do you feel the necessity to give out to Christians? Just accept that they have certain views. Does it hurt you?

I don't know if this is pointed towards me, but when I read a post that says something untrue about my faith, I will stand up for it, regardless.

[sk8ndestroy14]

Because apparently he wants me to believe in absolute nonsense. That does not sound intelligent to me.

Do you believe that the majority of the world is going to go to hell?

What proof exists that hell exists? (Besides of course the infallible bible :-p)

Don't go into proof. That is where the world of science is vulnerable. Where is there proof that every living organism is composed of cells? Where is there proof of evolution? Even the "proof" of classical physics has fallen at the time of quantum physics. Scientists once believed the world was flat, they once thought protons, neutrons, and electrons were the fundamental particles of matter. Many parts of science have been proven wrong and are constantly changing. This religion that you challenge has remained unchanged for thousands of years, despite challenges and attacks against it.

"Because apparently he wants me to believe in absolute nonsense."

That doesn't make any sense. If he doesn't exist, then he doesn't want you to believe in anything because he doesn't exist. If he does exist, then obviously it isn't absolute nonsense.

[twomers]

>> What proof exists that hell exists?
Dark Matter/Energy :P

Nah. It's called faith for a reason. There's always going to be doubt (maybe not for the person who has the faith, but for 'observers'), so you have to trust in something.

>> but when I read a post that says something untrue about my faith, I will stand up for it, regardless.
You're dead right. Stand up for what you believe in!

[sk8ndestroy14]

Yea.. And you know how I feel too.. It's frustrating that I keep saying something, but you don't understand it. (And vice versa for you)

I do have to say that it's rather annoying.. Everywhere I go there are Christians.. If you tell them you are atheist then they just try to convert you or pray for you as if they are better than you or know more than you. Everywhere I go, Christianity is staring me straight in the face. And I thought this country was supposed to be unbiased towards religion. At my work, the managers always have us pray. At school, there is always prayer. It's always on T.V. or in a magazine.. it is really hard to avoid.

Where do you work and go to school? Unless you go to a private christian school (doubtful, no offense) then it's illegal. And the same is true at your work unless you work at a religious place like a church.

[EnderX]

Where do you work and go to school? Unless you go to a private christian school (doubtful, no offense) then it's illegal. And the same is true at your work unless you work at a religious place like a church.

Actually, as I understand it, if the school or workplace as a whole is in agreement with the idea/ideal, then it's government interference with religion (the original reason for the purported 'wall of separation') to say "No, you can't do that."

[sk8ndestroy14]

But at a public school you would need the approval of every single student and faculty member. In this case they wouldn't likely have Josh's approval (or at his work). And after that they still would have to leave the school open to nonbelievers or forfeit any government funding. I'm pretty sure that's how it goes at least.

[sk8ndestroy14]

Before I abondon this thread I want to say a few more things. I'm probably not going to make another reply after this one.

I'm not sure what OP means but if it means the person who started the thread, then my original idea was only something I thought was interesting. It definitely isn't something I believe in at all, I just wanted to see what people thought of it.

As for the christian-atheist bash going on, it would appear to me that in most cases (not all) atheists try to force their nonbelief on others with angst. As if they were betrayed by religion, which would only mean in the back of their mind they actually do believe in it. The true atheists don't really see the need to debate the topic at all. But like I said that description doesn't fit everyone. From a third party perspective it seems as though the atheists are bashing and the christians are remaining humble. Which in any case shows a lot about one's beliefs and character and establishes who is a credible source and who isn't.

As for doubt, I began to doubt my religion once. I even hated it for a little bit. I questioned it, and I looked at science for answers too. I decided I needed to know what's right and what isn't. I ended up a believer again and there is most certainly logic in it. I still disagree with my parents on just about everything so that has nothing to do with God's influence on me.

I also believe omniscience and free will do not contradict. God (for you atheists, hypothetically, to demonstrate omniscence) is active in our lives and not "watching a football game" (but I liked that analogy). He knows someone's destiny is to find Jesus, but that person can only find Jesus if God leads him there, and so God does so, so destiny can be fulfilled. As for those "bound" to go to hell, it isn't that God doesn't want them, but he knows that because he gave them free will there is nothing He can do to change some people's minds. And there you go, omniscience and free will.

I'm done with this thread. Bye everybody.