How can we make DaniWeb more welcoming to newbies? - Page 4

Option could be quite managable as it would basically be giving the current interface for mobile phones to some users always as option.

Turning off the wysiwyg preview below the editor and the live wysiwyg in the editor itself may be an attractive feature.

The problem presently is that disabling the live preview would cause formatting issues due to disconnects between how the editor does highlighting and how the live preview/final result do it. Another issue is Markdown can be somewhat finicky with "complex" formatting such as quoted code blocks, nested lists, or code blocks as a list item. While I agree the live preview is confusing given the highlighting of the editor, I also think it's somewhat necessary.

Another possibility is a preview request instead of a live preview, kind of like we had before. Maybe more AJAXish, but still on request as opposed to always there when you're working with the editor.

I'd also be interested in going with something closer to raw text in the editor and keeping the live preview. Or, since Dani doesn't like that idea at all, at least make it optional. But off the top of my head, that seems tricky. I have an idea of how to do it, but I'm not confident that it'll work without some testing. ;)

I'd also be interested in going with something closer to raw text in the editor and keeping the live preview. Or, since Dani doesn't like that idea at all, at least make it optional. But off the top of my head, that seems tricky. I have an idea of how to do it, but I'm not confident that it'll work without some testing. ;)

If you could do that, it'd be great!
I'm gonna use Stylish to hide the live preview on my browser.

Or, since Dani doesn't like that idea at all, at least make it optional.

Every single seminar attended on website usability and every single article read about website usability I've ever attended or read tells me with every ounce of my convictions (if that's even a phrase) that you never ever make UI functionality optional.

It's after 3 am and I can't think straight but I'll explain tomorrow ...

you never ever make UI functionality optional

'functionality' ? I suppose that's one word for it. Wouldn't be my choice, but there again, the bad language feature would probably filter out my phrase. :)

you never ever make UI functionality optional

Usually true, but if the people using your site disagree, you may have to rethink/fix the functionality. Like all software, it should be built for the intended audience. Like often happens in business, you get the feedback after it's built (mainly because it is not clear what the users want).

You didn't use the link mechanism for the link you posted, that's why it is broken. For the link, you should have used this: the link name which produces the link name, and it is not broken. You can also use the link button of the editor by selecting the link name, clicking the Link button, and entering the URL. This is just as easy, if not easier than it was before, it also encourages giving names to links as opposed to just dumping the URL in the middle of the post. But I guess this minor issue could be solved by disabling markup when a link is detected (from http://). I suggest you read the formatting help page, because the new markup system is very nice to use compared to the old BBCODE, once you get to know it (and it is also more in harmony with markups used in other forums).

Is there any other forum our there that uses this "link mechanism"? No.

Forums use this:

[url="Title"]www.google.com[/url] (or reverse cant remeber right now)

its always been this way. So yes, it is broken.

You might want to read up on Markdown formatting. Note that we switched from BBCode to Markdown, and * is the starting character for italics. If it bothers you in the editor, you can escape that character with a backslash and it won't be highlighted.

Once again, read up on Markdown. Double asterisks are the starting sequence for bold. And once again, you can use a backslash to escape the starting sequence so that it won't be highlighted in the editor.

Markdown parses the square brackets as a starting sequence for a URL. The two parts of the URL (the display text and the link itself) are colored blue and red, respectively. Please don't take this the wrong way, because I've been told I sometimes unintentionally phrase things in an offensive way, but the majority of your complaints so far stem from not learning how to use the new system. It's akin to complaining about an Apple computer because you're used to Windows; learn how to use the new system and then complain. You're far too irate for issues where the answer amounts to "learn Markdown".

Markdown is shit. Period. And your "Apple" analogy doesnt really work MORESO when you say "learn how to use the new system and then complain". A month (or maybe more) ago I complained about this same crap. I said "Obviously they arent going to change it so I might as well get use to it" I CANT get use it to it because it is SO annoying. It is the only forum where everything is different. Why do you want to be a Apple computer (since you thru that out there)? Apples are not cool, special, easier to use, smarter, faster, etc. In fact, all this Javascript you use to render this stupid shit, slows down the site. Everytime I try to paste a big text, my browser freezes, doesnt matter if its IE, FF, Chrome, Opera, etc. It freezes. Its horrible.

I know you want to be hard headed and say your system is better because obviously you designed it/made it and we are all proud of our creations but Im sorry to tell you this but it is horrible.

Switching back is not an option. vBulletin was both woefully inadequate for Daniweb's needs and completely cracked by spam bots, the latter being a primary reason why we pushed to get the new system in place before the site was completely killed by them. Yes, it was that bad. The system we have was written by us (Dani and myself), so we can certainly modify it. But no matter what we do, the user experience won't satisfy everyone. We're unlikely to try being everything to everyone when it comes to features and configurability. If you have a feature you'd like to see, by all means ask for it. I can't guarantee that we'll implement it in the exact form you want, or even at all, but we'll definitely consider it.

If you made this new posting system from scratch, Im sure you can make something to fight against those spambots. That being said, it really hasnt done anything because I still receive daly spam in my PM (which I dont from much larger forums than yours)

Parentheses in URLs are notoriously problematic for linkify algorithms. The regular expression we're presently using is ((?:https?|ftp)://[^\s\'"<>()]+). You'll notice that parens are specifically disallowed, which means something like (http://www.google.com) will be parsed correctly. If we naively allowed parens then the closing paren from wrapping the URL would be mistakenly encoded as part of the URL and it would be a broken link. As it turns out, it's not possible to properly handle embedded parentheses and the closing paren in a URL without extra logic (at least not for me). A single regex match just doesn't cut it. So there are three options: Disallow parens even though they're legal URL characters. Naively allow parens and suffer the consequences of parsing errors. Write the special logic to handle parens. The library we use has taken the approach of option 1 (note that we didn't write it, we're just consuming it). I'll look into extending the algorithm to support embedded parentheses without breaking the use case of a paren wrapped URL.

Funny, I dont see in other forums having problems with parentheses yet yours does. Even vBulletin didnt if Im not mistaken

I just wish both of you rethink the current system and implement something way better because I think I mentioned it that it because so difficult to sometimes post, that I just close the page and dont post at all. That is how frustrating it is.

Is there any other forum our there that uses this "link mechanism"? No.

Yes, Plenty actually.

For the rest, it appears it is turning into a yes/no fight, and that will lead to nothing.

Markdown is shit. Period.

I'm sorry you feel that way.

I know you want to be hard headed and say your system is better because obviously you designed it/made it and we are all proud of our creations but Im sorry to tell you this but it is horrible.

It is what it is, I'm not saying it's better or worse than other forums. If there are bugs, I'm willing to fix them. If you don't like the system and refuse to compromise in any way, there's not much I can do. Who's being hard headed here, the one open to making improvements to the current system or the one who only wants vBulletin back?

If you made this new posting system from scratch, Im sure you can make something to fight against those spambots.

Yes, and we did. The massive spam attacks that Daniweb was suffering for the better part of last year have halted completely.

That being said, it really hasnt done anything because I still receive daly spam in my PM (which I dont from much larger forums than yours)

I can't do anything unless you report it. Please forward an example or two of those PMs to me and I'll take a look.

I just wish both of you rethink the current system and implement something way better because I think I mentioned it that it because so difficult to sometimes post, that I just close the page and dont post at all. That is how frustrating it is.

To be completely honest, I now think you're intentionally blowing everything out of proportion. While there have been a few complaints concerning known bugs, you seem to be the only one claiming that the new system is completely unusable.

If you don't like it, nobody is forcing you to post. If you can't offer any constructive criticism, I have better things to do than attempt to placate you when you have no intention of being anything but hostile.

Ok, for anybody that does not like the live preview box, here's a Stylish fix to 'hide' it. It's not great CSS I agree, but gets the job done. I tried visibility and display attributes, but couldn't get them to work even with !important.
So:

Note the absence of the preview as I write this post:

BTW - I'm using Chrome. I think it's available for FF. Not sure about other browsers.

I literally cannot quote you because every time I try to copy/paste a line you wrote, the browser crashes........

1: I understand it is a personal opinion
2: The one improvement I stated, I think before vBulletin, is let people choose a plain text mode and post a message "as is". In that plain text box you can support things like [b]hi[/b] and have that converted into **hi or whatever it is.
3: Well im glad you stopped them; I was referring to the PM system
4: I want to post. PMs dont really effect the posting system so I just delete them. If you want, I can forward the
5: It is. The tab has crashed 3 times when copy/pasting your post. 3 times!!! My best constructive criticism would be to allow people to plain text post besides this Markdown crap. Also (I think someone said it) the ability to disable the live preview.

BTW, this has no excuse....

The tab has crashed 3 times when copy/pasting your post.

Just had that in IE9, it appears unresponsive, but after a long wait, you get a lot of copied items (as reported earlier). It is the same in Opera, it just responds better.

For me markdown syntax is really nice - easier than bbcode (except for links). However, it seems to be the usability of the editor as opposed to markdown itself that's causing the consternation. I would very much welcome the ability/option to have a plain textarea, similar to my Android/HTC interface. I remember the old vBulletin system giving the user the option of Basic or Advanced editor. Being able to choose my preference of editor in my settings page would be extremely nice.

BTW, this has no excuse....

Fixed. Sorry!

For me markdown syntax is really nice - easier than bbcode (except for links).

Are you hitting Ctrl+L to insert a link? It should be really easy, no?

I remember the old vBulletin system giving the user the option of Basic or Advanced editor.

We also had a HUGE issue with code not formatted correctly with the old system. That's been all but eliminated with our new editor.

BTW for positive note to discussion, I really like this repeating of the synopsis part of the post in beginning of the pages 2 and later. Even I would try putting those page controls in corner of that box. It does not exist in first page, which could ruin the idea.

Did you give though to wording of the new thread. Like Start my very own topic of discussion

We could maybe hint users to give concise synopsis at beginning of the post for more efficient posting.

IE is acting up for me too, which is weird because I definitely bug-tested the copy/paste solution against it. Note that this is NOT an editor issue, it's a Dani-code issue. I'll look into it ...

I'm trying to come up with a decent solution to quote an existing post, while taking into consideration that I absolutely HATED vBulletin's system of quoting posts in their entirety, because you always ended up with people quoting entire posts in full, and huge duplicates of content on every page. It was obnoxious :)

Another positive note - the related thread - nice. Not all that much use for me, but I can see how it would be extremely useful for somebody seeking a solution. It's all adding up to be a really cool experience. Good job. :)

And seeing how well it links to my previous 'Quiz of the week:' it looks like it pays to serialize the titling if you have series of posts. I do not know but sometimes I miss a metathread to link all related threads explicitely, or interleaved posts in long sticky message on similar series. Sometimes the separation is not clear though, but some posts could appear more than once. I think possibility to give kind of meta-linking tag to many posts could accomplish this. But posts, not only threads. Then we should list available metacatalogues in forums.