The Unix Haters Handbook

[serkan sendur]

yesterday i read that book, i was relieved.
Do you also think that unix and programming on unix sucks?(i would also say c++ language but i know that Narue may prove me wrong, so i dont dare to say it)

[mvmalderen]

I think I've seen that book before, you don't have to take it seriously :) ...

[Narue]

>Do you also think that unix and programming on unix sucks?
Unix is fabulous and programming on Unix is sheer joy. X programming on Unix is what sucks. I think more programmers have lost their sanity to X than MFC.

[serkan sendur]

I think I've seen that book before, you don't have to take it seriously :) ...

the book is written by some phd holders from MIT, how cant you take it seriously?

[serkan sendur]

>Do you also think that unix and programming on unix sucks?
Unix is fabulous and programming on Unix is sheer joy. X programming on Unix is what sucks. I think more programmers have lost their sanity to X than MFC.

can i ask an ignorant question like what is "x programming"?

[mvmalderen]

can i ask an ignorant question like what is "x programming"?

>> What is X ? http://www.google.com/search?q=define:x+window+system&oi=definel&defl=en

>> X programming is programming for X (duh :P)

[siddhant3s]

I think the book is pretty much fun.
Though being a Linux(which it originated from MINIX which in turn originated from UNIX) user, I have my full sympathy and support over UNIX,

But the book is really hilarious. Thats it. Nothing more.

UNIX has changed the meaning of OS. No doubt.

Moderators: Don't you think this thread will be more good for the Geek Lounge.

[edit] : Anyone interested in reading book, is freely available for download:http://www.simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf

[mvmalderen]

Moderators: Don't you think this thread will be more good for the Geek Lounge.

I was also thinking that :)

[serkan sendur]

yeah maybe it was better for geek lounge but c++ is a better way to attract Narue's attention, i am honored when i get posts from her.

[mvmalderen]

yeah maybe it was better for geek lounge but c++ is a better way to attract Narue's attention, i am honored when i get posts from her.

Ah you think in that way lol :P

[Narue]

>c++ is a better way to attract Narue's attention, i am honored when i get posts from her.
That's sad. The really pathetic part is that you're probably serious. :icon_rolleyes:

[serkan sendur]

>c++ is a better way to attract Narue's attention, i am honored when i get posts from her.
That's sad. The really pathetic part is that you're probably serious. :icon_rolleyes:

what is wrong with being "Narue obsessed"?

i found a good saying by the way :

Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
-- Henry Spencer Usenet signature, November 1987

[~s.o.s~]

> what is wrong with being "Narue obsessed"?

Nothing is wrong in being obsessed with 'XXX'; just make sure you don't end up causing inconvenience and chaos with your *obsession*[which you just did by posting this thread in C++ forum, making it an off-topic thread].

[NicAx64]

i would also say c++ language but i know that Narue may prove me wrong, so i dont dare to say it

not only the Narue will hate you , all the C++ community will
hate you. Please don't talk like this. Even think that I feeling
hard time learning java and java GUI , it is not a good
idea to boost like this "java programming sucks , I hate java".
then the ppl who interested to the java and spend their time mostely on java will definitely hate you and be offense with you.

and as I feel C++ makes the life easy , it is a great tool.Go forward and use it.

Even the X programming will be fun. I personally don't like to program with MFC even I own the legal visual studio 6.0 too.
that comes with MFC.I use wxWidgets for the purpose of the
MFC.

so what I telling is Narue++ .and C++ is for the human beings , and
it's the #1 fav programming language that I'm studying .

[nav33n]

so what I telling is Narue++ .and C++ is for the human beings , and
it's the #1 fav programming language that I'm studying .

:D umm.. What are you talking about ?

[NicAx64]

:D umm.. What are you talking about ?

source: Think in C++ free book.
http://www.mindview.net/Books/TICPP/ThinkingInCPP2e.html

we also say that C++ is also a productive programming language.
Read the first chapter , you will get the point.and he also said that
C++ is hybrid to the abstract problem domain and underlying hardware.

It is the power of C++ and make it consider as a productive programming language. So C++ is a good programming languge
and will be use in future too.

[nav33n]

No. I was talking about you mentioning Narue++ ;) Well, Nevermind!

[Nick Evan]

This thread made me a bit sick in the stomach...

[NicAx64]

No. I was talking about you mentioning Narue++ ;) Well, Nevermind!

that means I agree with Narue

and ppl who are interested in other than C++ it's good for them. But
C++ is also good.

[Ancient Dragon]

Do you also think that unix and programming on unix sucks?

Absolutely yes. I hate *nix because its just too damn complicated to get anything done. There are, however, a few features I like, such as shell programming, awk and sed. MS-Windows batch files aren't in the same league with *nix shell programs. But doing simple things like installing programs on *nix is a nightmare.

[serkan sendur]

Absolutely yes. I hate *nix because its just too damn complicated to get anything done. There are, however, a few features I like, such as shell programming, awk and sed. MS-Windows batch files aren't in the same league with *nix shell programs. But doing simple things like installing programs on *nix is a nightmare.

thanks, you seem to be the only one who agrees with me. i think it has to do with age and experience(these guys are just too young :))

[MosaicFuneral]

Youth is vitality, so it's all no problem than.

By the way, Serkan, how do you manage to make all your threads so creepy, and how old are you again?

[William Hemsworth]

>how do you manage to make all your threads so creepy
So true :icon_rolleyes:

Serkan, seek help to get over your Narue obsession. :icon_cheesygrin: or just keep it to yourself.

[jbennet]

Do you also think that unix and programming on unix sucks?(i would also say c++ language but i know that Narue may prove me wrong, so i dont dare to say it)

If it wasnt for UNIX, C probaby wouldnt be as famous as it is today.... learn your history...

Unix is fabulous and programming on Unix is sheer joy. X programming on Unix is what sucks. I think more programmers have lost their sanity to X than MFC.

Agreed. GTK+, QT etc... make easier though,

the book is written by some phd holders from MIT, how cant you take it seriously?

The same MIT that wrote the X Window System?. MIT used UNIX extensively...

can i ask an ignorant question like what is "x programming"?

The X Window System is the server which provides the basis for you to run your window manager and/or desktop on.

But doing simple things like installing programs on *nix is a nightmare.

We arent discussing the merits of UNIX as a desktop OS, but as a development platform. As a development platform, it is very versatile.

>how do you manage to make all your threads so creepy
Serkan, seek help to get over your Narue obsession. or just keep it to yourself.

Agreed. He scares me...

Also, this book is like 20 years old, lots have changed since then... the UNIX wars are over, for one...

[serkan sendur]

why do i scare you guys? i am physically 28 years old, but if you ask my mind age, it varies from time to time, most often i feel 20..

[jbennet]

You scare me because you seem to have some strange narue-fetish....

[serkan sendur]

You scare me because you seem to have some strange narue-fetish....

yeah it scares her too :( i am not serious actually, but if she understands that i am not, then it wouldnt be that fun for me. i like her maternal feelings, she has good sense of compassion. And sometimes putting someone to center of my life makes me happy for a while, like a meditation..
i hope i didnt scare you more :)

[William Hemsworth]

Yep, you did :-(

[serkan sendur]

how about this :
From: Linus Torvalds <torvalds-AT-linux-foundation.org>
To: Dmitry Kakurin <dmitry.kakurin-AT-gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [RFC] Convert builin-mailinfo.c to use The Better String Library.
Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 18:50:28 +0100 (BST)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Cc: Matthieu Moy <Matthieu.Moy-AT-imag.fr>, Git <git-AT-vger.kernel.org>
Archive-link: Article, Thread

On Wed, 5 Sep 2007, Dmitry Kakurin wrote:
>
> When I first looked at Git source code two things struck me as odd:
> 1. Pure C as opposed to C++. No idea why. Please don't talk about portability,
> it's BS.

*YOU* are full of bullshit.

C++ is a horrible language. It's made more horrible by the fact that a lot
of substandard programmers use it, to the point where it's much much
easier to generate total and utter crap with it. Quite frankly, even if
the choice of C were to do *nothing* but keep the C++ programmers out,
that in itself would be a huge reason to use C.

In other words: the choice of C is the only sane choice. I know Miles
Bader jokingly said "to piss you off", but it's actually true. I've come
to the conclusion that any programmer that would prefer the project to be
in C++ over C is likely a programmer that I really *would* prefer to piss
off, so that he doesn't come and screw up any project I'm involved with.

C++ leads to really really bad design choices. You invariably start using
the "nice" library features of the language like STL and Boost and other
total and utter crap, that may "help" you program, but causes:

- infinite amounts of pain when they don't work (and anybody who tells me
that STL and especially Boost are stable and portable is just so full
of BS that it's not even funny)

- inefficient abstracted programming models where two years down the road
you notice that some abstraction wasn't very efficient, but now all
your code depends on all the nice object models around it, and you
cannot fix it without rewriting your app.

In other words, the only way to do good, efficient, and system-level and
portable C++ ends up to limit yourself to all the things that are
basically available in C. And limiting your project to C means that people
don't screw that up, and also means that you get a lot of programmers that
do actually understand low-level issues and don't screw things up with any
idiotic "object model" crap.

So I'm sorry, but for something like git, where efficiency was a primary
objective, the "advantages" of C++ is just a huge mistake. The fact that
we also piss off people who cannot see that is just a big additional
advantage.

If you want a VCS that is written in C++, go play with Monotone. Really.
They use a "real database". They use "nice object-oriented libraries".
They use "nice C++ abstractions". And quite frankly, as a result of all
these design decisions that sound so appealing to some CS people, the end
result is a horrible and unmaintainable mess.

But I'm sure you'd like it more than git.

Linus
you can see the article at :
http://lwn.net/Articles/249460/

[jbennet]

What does that have to do with anything?