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There is plenty of evidence that proves a universal moral code is completely idiotic. For one, It would require the existence of a supreme being. For how could a sense of morality be incorporated into evolution? The human genome has been mapped, and there is no 'soul'. Nothing that sets us apart from any other species on the planet (Other than the +-2% difference in code from chimps.

Aside from the existence of a god, we know that a person's environment helps to shape his character and actions. If you travel to different cultures, you will find that they do NOT all share moral similarities. Just open a single history book! Ancient tribes were not always against stealing, murder, etc. Ancient civilizations have created games in which if you lose, you die. They have sacrificed other people.. People have fought and killed others for "the glory of god!" People who fought in the crusades thought they were killing on behalf of god, and thus it was morally right. Tribes in Africa and many other places still practice pagan rituals that the western world would consider immoral. The novel okonkwo is also a perfect example. Okonkwo was a wise and powerful leader of his tribe.. They did many 'evil' things such as murder(killed babies that were thought to be evil) and thievery. They followed what their prophet said, b/c they thought it was moral and right. Then the Christian missionaries come along and force their ideas on the people.. Okonkwo ends up committing suicide.

Society decides morality. People are shaped by their environment. There is no universal moral law.. Morals exist only b/c people create them. Again, look at many mass murderers throughout history. Hitler, for example. He truly thought that the Aryan race was supreme, and that all other people were inferior. He risked his own life and killed millions b/c of his belief. He obviously thought what he was doing was moral and just, but people disagree based on their own principles.

Ok, I'll buy that. Several things to consider, though:

1) Being the science/reason-based person you are I'll treat the debate like this. Your very second sentence nullifies this. One must never not consider something becuse of the implications it causes.

In a similar sense, a scientific study that somehow goes against evolution (and yes, there are some reputable ones) arn't automatically thrown out simply because they go against evolution.

2) "The entire genome has been mapped"

While off topic, I will still mention into it. While yes, the entire human genome has been mapped, you must realize that all it has shown is a similiary to other organisms (predominantly apes). However, it's basic Biology to point out that our DNA consists of introns and exons, and we currently do not know the combinations of the exons that produce mRNA. With that said, there are still a pletora of differnet mysteries surrounding the genome. For one, what happens to snRNPs? We still do not know where they go after production.

3) Hitler, etc.> I think we all will agree that Hitler, along with Stalin and the current leaders in Uganda, arn't fully mentally and morally there.

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Also, much of human behavior is social not bilogical.

e.g If you took someone and grew them from birth in isolation then they would probably be more like a chimp than a person.

That is what makes the human race very special.

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Agreed fully. I've actually read books specifically targeting this mentality. (Evolution: A Triumph of an Idea by Carl Zimmer).

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In a similar sense, a scientific study that somehow goes against evolution (and yes, there are some reputable ones) arn't automatically thrown out simply because they go against evolution.

No scientific theories go against evolution completely. Some may produce results that evolution cannot fully explain, but nothing scientific has ever disproven evolution..

2) "The entire genome has been mapped"

While off topic, I will still mention into it. While yes, the entire human genome has been mapped, you must realize that all it has shown is a similiary to other organisms (predominantly apes). However, it's basic Biology to point out that our DNA consists of introns and exons, and we currently do not know the combinations of the exons that produce mRNA. With that said, there are still a pletora of differnet mysteries surrounding the genome. For one, what happens to snRNPs? We still do not know where they go after production.

3) Hitler, etc.> I think we all will agree that Hitler, along with Stalin and the current leaders in Uganda, arn't fully mentally and morally there.

Oh, of course.. the human genome project is far from over. We simply have completed phase 1: mapping the entire genome. We have yet to fully understand how dna works, and what each chromosome and such codes in the human body.

As far hitler and stalin.. why are they considered mental and immoral? Simply b/c they killed many people and had radical visions of the future? Why do people always think murderers are mentally ill? I think it is a very judgmental assumption. Hitler was a very intelligent man, and although I don't agree with what he did.. I think he was fully aware of what he was doing. Killing innocent people doesn't make someone crazy..

It is simply a human defense mechanism to make killers out to be inhuman. Society condemns them for what they have done, and people do not want to consider the perpetrators as human.. b/c then the killers would be just like us.. And we unconsciously rejects this idea.

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I agree with Josh. The only reason Hitler, Stalin, Mussolini, and all the other Communist leaders are considered crazy was because:

A) The winners take the spoils and write history. If the winners say they're crazy, they're crazy.

B) They thought this was an all-around reasonable solution..

But they were incorrect. The leaders may, and very likely were geniuses in their own right. However, we tend not to think so approvingly of those who changed the world for worse.

Einstein changed the world - but he was hailed as a genius.

Edison changed the world - and he was hailed as a master inventor.

Hitler started a war that was built on his visions of marauding the entire continent of Europe and building a capital out of his hometown, Linz. He was denounced as an insane man, but there was little doubt in anyone's mind that he was a genius.

The shooter at V Tech may well have been a genius. No one knew him well enough to realize it, if he was.

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But they were incorrect. The leaders may, and very likely were geniuses in their own right. However, we tend not to think so approvingly of those who changed the world for worse.

Of course society doesn't approve of people who slaughter innocent lives. =/

The shooter at V Tech may well have been a genius. No one knew him well enough to realize it, if he was.

I wouldn't take it that far. How can you lift someone like him up to be called a 'genius?' He was a murderer. And in my mind, murderers are not geniuses. They are just simply selfish with a strong lust for power.

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3) Hitler, etc.> I think we all will agree that Hitler, along with Stalin and the current leaders in Uganda, arn't fully mentally and morally there.

Yep.

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Of course society doesn't approve of people who slaughter innocent lives. =/

I wouldn't take it that far. How can you lift someone like him up to be called a 'genius?' He was a murderer. And in my mind, murderers are not geniuses. They are just simply selfish with a strong lust for power.

Yep.

aww.. you are doing exactly as I said in my post.. You are using denial as a defense mechanism..

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Denial?

Denial that murderers may or may not be geniuses.. Just b/c they do stuff that you consider immoral and inhumane doesn't mean that they are psycho

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Denial that murderers may or may not be geniuses.. Just b/c they do stuff that you consider immoral and inhumane doesn't mean that they are psycho

So you're saying Hitler wasn't psycho?

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Precisely. He was a very intelligent man.. Knew how to get his way.. a powerful millitary mind.. Why do you say he is psycho?

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Precisely. He was a very intelligent man.. Knew how to get his way.. a powerful millitary mind.. Why do you say he is psycho?

You go to extremes to try and make yourself look smart... why?
Here's a reason he's psycho... he had millions of people killed for no reason...

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aww.. you are doing exactly as I said in my post.. You are using denial as a defense mechanism..

rofl and here you act like you know something about psychology... give me a break. lol

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You go to extremes to try and make yourself look smart... why?

How so? No I don't.. I really couldn't care less what any of you thought of me..

Here's a reason he's psycho... he had millions of people killed for no reason...

And that makes someone psycho? Hmm.. I don't think that the definition of psycho is someone that kills millions of people.. People think hes psycho b/c they don't like what he did.. Killing another person does not make someone psycho.

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The shooter at V Tech may well have been a genius. No one knew him well enough to realize it, if he was.

haha! yeah ok...
this doesn't make you smart, looking at every point of view that is. No, it simply makes you ignorant. both of you.

would you tell that to the families of those kids? give me a break.. you're ridiculous.

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rofl and here you act like you know something about psychology... give me a break. lol

Well, I actually have taken a 3 or 4 hour college psychology course.. Obviously, I'm no master at it.. but I know the basics..

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psychosis: A general term for a state of mind in which thinking becomes irrational and/or disturbed. ; a serious metal disorder, characterized by disturbance of the ability to cope with the environment and other people as well

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haha! yeah ok...
this doesn't make you smart, looking at every point of view that is. No, it simply makes you ignorant. both of you.

would you tell that to the families of those kids? give me a break.. you're ridiculous.

You know whos ignorant? YOU! You fool, we aren't saying that what he did was right or in any way moral (to our standards). We are just trying to make the point that killing doesn't necessarily make one psychotic..

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psychosis: A general term for a state of mind in which thinking becomes irrational and/or disturbed. ; a serious metal disorder, characterized by disturbance of the ability to cope with the environment and other people as well

Who is the judge of 'rational' behavior?

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Well, I actually have taken a 3 or 4 hour college psychology course.. Obviously, I'm no master at it.. but I know the basics..

how was she portraying anything that resembled a deffense mechanism?? Noone is denying he was human... he was very deranged.

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Who is the judge of 'rational' behavior?

obviously you are... i mean you are the smartest one here... right? At least you seem to think so.

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Precisely. He was a very intelligent man.. Knew how to get his way.. a powerful millitary mind.. Why do you say he is psycho?

I don't consider him intelligent (he was a high school dropout and made poor grades while he was there!), but he was good at hypnotizing people into believing his ways were right. Yes, he did have a powerful military mind, but what kind of person wouldn't, if they were searching for world domination?
Why do I think he was a psycho? Well for one, he hated himself. He wanted to get completely rid of the Jewish community, although he had Jewish heritage in him! He had a vision of an Aryan German race that did not include Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, and several other groups of people. He redefined the meaning of 'evil.' Two words: mass genocide. Oh and I also think he's a psycho because although he was considered this great and powerful leader of the Nazis, he killed himself in the end. What did that message send to his followers?

So tell me, is that not psychotic? Come on. This is HITLER we're talking about. He is renowned as one of the most evil, perhaps the most evil man that has ever walked this earth! And studies have shown that he was indeed mentally unstable.

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ra·tion·al play_w("R0053500") adj.
1. Having or exercising the ability to reason.
2. Of sound mind; sane.
3. Consistent with or based on reason; logical: rational behavior. See Synonyms at logical.

How do you know that killers aren't rational? Cho probably knew exactly what he was doing.. Knew he would kill many people, and kil himself as well. He may have logical thought it through.. and came to the conclusion that he was tired of life, and just wanted to die.. Perhaps he thought, hey.. if I have to die.. I might as well take a few people out with me..

Obviously, I don't know what he was thinking.. but either do any of you..

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You know whos ignorant? YOU! You fool, we aren't saying that what he did was right or in any way moral (to our standards). We are just trying to make the point that killing doesn't necessarily make one psychotic..

oh my bad sir.

I just think it's a little pathetic to pick out every word in a sentence to try to find more ways that will further the respect people have for you. I mean... it's a computer message board?? HELLO!

"Oh my dear.. i do believe you meant to say troubled. Yes... troubled is the word. The deffinition of psychosis is blah blah blah and you in fact didn't use the correct verbage here."

get over yourself. you're arrogant and a jerk. period.

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obviously you are... i mean you are the smartest one here... right? At least you seem to think so.

I never said anything like that at all!! You are putting words int my mouth!!

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I never said anything like that at all!! You are putting words int my mouth!!

ha like i have to do that for you.. you don't have to say it directly.

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I just think it's a little pathetic to pick out every word in a sentence to try to find more ways that will further the respect people have for you. I mean... it's a computer message board?? HELLO!

I don't pick out every little detail.. I just post my views.. which are unbiased and actually make sense..

"Oh my dear.. i do believe you meant to say troubled. Yes... troubled is the word. The deffinition of psychosis is blah blah blah and you in fact didn't use the correct verbage here."

get over yourself. you're arrogant and a jerk. period.

haha.. Did I ever say anything of the sort? Please link me to the post in which I said that..

I am not arrogant.. Hmm, seems as if you have resorted to name-calling.. what are you, 5? lol..

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ha like i have to do that for you.. you don't have to say it directly.

oh okay.. Show me where I have implied anything like that..

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Precisely. He was a very intelligent man.. Knew how to get his way.. a powerful millitary mind.. Why do you say he is psycho?

I don't consider him intelligent (he was a high school dropout and made poor grades while he was there!), but he was good at hypnotizing people into believing his ways were right. Yes, he did have a powerful military mind, but what kind of person wouldn't, if they were searching for world domination?
Why do I think he was a psycho? Well for one, he hated himself. He wanted to get completely rid of the Jewish community, although he had Jewish heritage in him! He had a vision of an Aryan German race that did not include Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, and several other groups of people. He redefined the meaning of 'evil.' Two words: mass genocide. Oh and I also think he's a psycho because although he was considered this great and powerful leader of the Nazis, he killed himself in the end. What did that message send to his followers?

So tell me, is that not psychotic? Come on. This is HITLER we're talking about. He is renowned as one of the most evil, perhaps the most evil man that has ever walked this earth! And studies have shown that he was indeed mentally unstable.

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