>>and his statement of them being able to beat mexico again could just as well have been that they could beat anybody in the world. lets face it. they can
If you think that, then see Iraq and Viet Nam :) USA may have the big stick, but they don't use it very well.

>> have no doubt that a portion of migrants become criminals. but to say that all of them are criminals is stereotyping
Not migrants but illegal migrants -- there is a huge difference. ALL illegal immegrants are criminals by definition. That doesn't mean they all go out and rob/murder/rape someone, just the fact that they entered the country illegally makes them a criminal.

>>they are entrepeneurs mostly. they open up small business and try very hard. others accept the worst kinds of jobs with an unbelievable gratitude.
That does not excuse their criminal act of entering the country illegally. If my next-door neighbor decides he doesn't like his house any more and moves in on me, does my laundry, cooking and cleaning, should I be expected to just welcome him, his family and all his cousins into my house even if I don't want them there ? No -- in USA I could shoot them all as then walk through the front door.

>> have no doubt that a portion of migrants become criminals. but to say that all of them are criminals is stereotyping
Yes I think you are right on that topic. At my age it would probably be close to impossible for me to move to Africa and learn the language.

Which country are you talking about? The Netherlands is not the only country out there!

I'm talking about the US here. The bill was narrowly defeated but ready to be introduced again.

@ancient dragon

>iraq and vietnam.

maybe. in my opinion vietnam never beat the US but the US defeated themselves. same in korea.

>illegal migrants ... rape, murder rob....

i agree that they are criminals for the simple fact that they have entered a country ileegaly. but i am sure that both josch and jwentig believe that they are rapists and robbers and murder loving scoundrels. that is where i say they are wrong.

>neighbour

excellent point. i am of course not saying that they are within their rights but two things. one they do th US more good than harm and if you are going to say that it still does not give them the right then i am going to cede the point.

second. lets see where these people come from. i cannot speak for mexico but here in south africa they flee from war and poverty. i am sure that you have heard of zimbabwe. that is only one. and still when these people come here they meet with nothing but xenophobia or even worse unreasonable jealousy and hatred.

what mellowed me for these people is what i have once read on something of one of them in Cape Town. The words: Si Dieu avec nous que peutre contre nous? I dabbled in french some time back and even though i cannot read half a children's book i could decode that. it says that if God stand with us then who can stand against us. it demonstrates what these people goes through. they face hardship and misery and often persecution in their own country. South africa is over 5000 km from the french speaking parts of africa. and yet these people still have the courage and the determination and will to hope and try for a better life.

>>but i am sure that both josch and jwentig believe that they are rapists and robbers and murder loving scoundrels. that is where i say they are wrong.
I think you are wrong. It is very obvious to anyone with an IQ above that of a grape that it is not the case. If it were true then we'd have to put them all in prision, and we don't have enough prisons for that. Their crime is that they crossed the border illegally. Most of them, once here, are probably hard-working people.

Your description of Cape Town is where I think things get a little sticky. Mexico is not that bad -- people are not starving to death, probably hungry yes but not anything like the pictures I have seen of people in parts of Africa (see thumbnail).

If you import all the poverty from other countries, you will end up with poverty in your own country.

Not all illegal aliens take to criminal enterprise beyond the federal crime of crossing the border illegally maybe, but it is a fact that those who do are often among the worst repeat offenders.
And they often get very light sentences, being usually just kicked out of the country only to come back in a few days later.

Not all illegal aliens take to criminal enterprise beyond the federal crime of crossing the border illegally maybe, but it is a fact that those who do are often among the worst repeat offenders.
And they often get very light sentences, being usually just kicked out of the country only to come back in a few days later.

Is this Holland or the USA?

Is this Holland or the USA?

He must be talking about Holland, since he is from there!

In France we keep our illegal Immigrants happy. We just give up, and let them burn our cars and buses.

In France we keep our illegal Immigrants happy. We just give up, and let them burn our cars and buses.

Lol. they all come over to us in england through the eurotrain/trucks at the ferry ports when you guys kick them out or they get fed up

You westerners have all things needed.you are rich and prosperous and will never under stand our problems.millions are being immigrants every in quest of a beeter life,its not their will .its a struggle for survival......when you people own all resources and go for war and kill innocent people just to get controll of oil and gas and every single valuable resource on earth wat rae they supposed to do.....?.....

mexico is in the west dumbass

You westerners have all things needed.you are rich and prosperous and will never under stand our problems.millions are being immigrants every in quest of a beeter life,its not their will .its a struggle for survival......when you people own all resources and go for war and kill innocent people just to get controll of oil and gas and every single valuable resource on earth wat rae they supposed to do.....?.....

They still should not break the law. If you want to call it a struggle for survival fine, we struggle to make sure we stay ahead and prosperous.

this thread is ridiculous. aren't we all brothers and sisters? and aren't we human beings? we should help each other instead of retarded laws, instead of spending billions on a stupid war for oil.

i believe its more like trillions

No we are not all brothers and sisters. Yes it is a stupid war but I do not see how that relates to illegal immigration. And yes, last time I checked, we are all human beings.

It relates to immigration, illegal or otherwise, in that the war creates a debt of $20,900 for each family of four in the United States. This is money most families just don't have. So we have to create more families to spread the enormous cost.

Next time, before you scream for war, think about that someone has to pay for all of this madness. Some soldiers pay with their lifes, hard to put a price on that! Right now we are borrowing money from the Chinese to pay for the war.

>You westerners have all things needed.you are rich and prosperous and will never under stand our problems.millions are being immigrants every in quest of a beeter life,its not their will .its a struggle for survival......when you people own all resources and go for war and kill innocent people just to get controll of oil and gas and every single valuable resource on earth wat rae they supposed to do.....?.....

So we should just "let" immigrants from every poor, corrupt, and violent nation in the world take over our country(s)? The people who are causing the violence and poverty in 3rd world countries are same as those illegally trespassing our borders.

@ sturm but also plenty of the others.

this is an utterly rediculous thread which does not really warrant reply accept amongst you elite group of ethnocentric migrant haters. but before i leave let me point out that most of america's wars were wars in which they were the agressors. the second wold war was of course a notable acception.

as to migrants. you guys have no problem with skilled people migrating there do you? scientists, artists, athletes and engineers are more than welcome. you want the world's human capital to increase your GDP but none of its population to divide that GDP to produce a smaller per capita GDP. at the end of world war two you even imported nazis.

let me remind you of werner von braun. i cannot say that he was a nazi nor was my above comment aimed at him. but you do remember that he designed the V1 and V2 flying bomb which was used against the women and children of your allies the english dont you?

also take a look at your green card lottery project. it is supposed to be random but since i graduated from tech i had at least one email or ad or something every few months. some of my friends say the same. especially the once who had great results. yet other people with no qualifications receives almost none. the point is that if it really is random then i fail to see how we the skilled get many offers while the unskilled get so few.

and the people naive enough to accept quickly realize that they cant bring their families with. why? scared that it would lower your per capita income?

if america has such an issue with migrants then they should not try and draw the skilled migrant while trying to discourage the unskilled. or is fairness an outdated concept in this modern world.

i dont fully agree with codder. the americans have built their pool of capital stock which forms the backbone of their economy. and i have already said all that i have to say about stolen land so i am not going to say it again. but cooder's point was perhaps that the rich nations of the world stole some. two hundred years ago thay colonised. now they steal human capital. if you feel that migrants have no place in your societies then dont get selective by alowing the skilled and the rich easy acces to your country. these can do a lot for their own poorer countries.

From the above post I deduct that the USA should create more jobs in other countries, so they can keep their skilled and unskilled workers at home.

Actually, I think we are doing this right now! The USA is exporting a lot of good jobs to other countries.

On a personal note, my beloved grandmama just ended up in the hospital, and I have been visiting her every day. All the nurses are from Asia and are wonderful people.

I think exporting jobs is horrible. Creating jobs in other countries is a good thing, but do it a different way than outsourcing. By doing that your chance of getting a job lowers.

>So we should just "let" immigrants from every poor, corrupt, and violent nation in the world take over our country(s)? The people who are causing the violence and poverty in 3rd world countries are same as those illegally trespassing our borders.

the US is just as corrupt, messed up and full of criminals as any other country.

the US is just as corrupt, messed up and full of criminals as any other country.

Yep, so we don't need more streaming in under the fence :P

>Yep, so we don't need more streaming in under the fence

you still don't get it, no one gets it! most of the illegal immigrants aren't even criminals. they're not scum, they're hard workers looking for job opportunities which they don't have in their own countries.

Illegal/legal immigrants are scum. No ifs or buts. It would be better if they remained in their own countries of origin.

Illegal/legal immigrants are scum. No ifs or buts. It would be better if they remained in their own countries of origin.

They are not scum.

>Yep, so we don't need more streaming in under the fence

you still don't get it, no one gets it! most of the illegal immigrants aren't even criminals. they're not scum, they're hard workers looking for job opportunities which they don't have in their own countries.

Actually I do get it. I've lived around communities of them for years now. I know that most of them are just looking for work. However, they choose to ignore the legal immigration channels and by definition become criminals when they are illegally in the country. By necessity of their illegal status, they also break tax laws, driving laws, insurance laws and others. They cannot comply with them because they lack the legal status to do so. What good are those laws if a large portion of a population ignore them? We should just let them live outside the bounds that are established for everyone else I guess?

Actually I do get it. I've lived around communities of them for years now. I know that most of them are just looking for work. However, they choose to ignore the legal immigration channels and by definition become criminals when they are illegally in the country. By necessity of their illegal status, they also break tax laws, driving laws, insurance laws and others. They cannot comply with them because they lack the legal status to do so. What good are those laws if a large portion of a population ignore them? We should just let them live outside the bounds that are established for everyone else I guess?

I agree with you, they are criminals in that sense, but they're not scum. They're just trying to make a living, and as I've mentioned before, migrating legally to the US is a pain, a long process that takes a lot of time and money, which is why most immigrants are illegal.

Yes they are scum. And the ones that are granted refugee status bring forward cases that beg the government to let the rest of their family (uncle raj, auntie balvinder) into the country.

So in the end we have to support not just one scumbag but an entire family, who then go on to settle down and give birth to second generation scumbags.

No thank you.

Immigrants are a scourge to society. What they contribute doesn't matter.

Yes they are scum. And the ones that are granted refugee status bring forward cases that beg the government to let the rest of their family (uncle raj, auntie balvinder) into the country.

So in the end we have to support not just one scumbag but an entire family, who then go on to settle down and give birth to second generation scumbags.

No thank you.

Immigrants are a scourge to society. What they contribute doesn't matter.

Prove it then. You're probably one of those ignorant white people. You've probably never lived close to immigrants.