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Look at the bottom of the page -- it was NOT America that produced that ranking.

Yep i missed that part.

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By the way that rank was for 2005 the 2007 rank is here. http://www.arwu.org/rank/2007/ARWU2007_Top100.htm

Well UK faired even worse in that link -- Cambridge dropped from 2nd place to 4th place.

Maybe we ought to change the topic of this thread...i know i played a part in the alteration of the original discussion...but it has turned out to be quite interesting!...It's pretty much the repuation that the USA has..for example...and NO disresect to anyone from there....but let us say I had a PhD from a poor, worn torn african nation..and lets say you have the same degree/experience/qualification from the USA..which sounds more appealing? ...

I doubt Africa has any universities, but might be wrong. But generally it would depend on those Ph.D's. I can buy one here in USA for about $100USD or so that isn't worth the paper it's printed on.

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The way they actually compose that rank is actually rather strange however. It is based more on the number of people with awards and the number of papers published and not so much how smart the students actually are at the end of their studies.

Basically the richest University come out on top because they can pay staff with more awards, pay for more research in all areas and in turn have more papers published in specific areas. If you actually look at harvards score. Their average student performance based on size is not the best on that list but because the students grades only count for 10% they come out on top because they can afford to hire better staff.

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Wow.. don't ya think most of the well-known universities are well-known b/c of their good curriculum and staff?

I never said that wasn't the case. I tend to actually agree with you that they probably are some of the best Universities/Colleges in the world because of their huge funding base and therefore ability to hire copetent and knowledgeable staff. What i said was that their reputation alone does not make them significantly better then universities in other countries.

I think i would be able to get the same amount of information and perform just as well in a subject taught by a good teacher at the ANU as i would from a good teacher at Harvard.

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Off-topic, but Josh, out of curiosity, which World Class Institution for Higher Education are you currently enrolled at?

Back on topic, I think it's fair to say, as I intended in my previous post, that the US has - in general - a better infrastructure for higher education. This is good, but our poor quality of basic education really drags us down. And we get some really unabashed ignoramuses who come out of said system and provide to the world an image of Americans which, frankly, I'm embarrassed about. Our culture also contributes to the ignorance of our population... if only it were true that ignorance were bliss.

Or is it, Josh?

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Well said.
Why bad rep me? Scru started the flaming..
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Back on topic, I think it's fair to say, as I intended in my previous post, that the US has - in general - a better infrastructure for higher education. This is good, but our poor quality of basic education really drags us down. And we get some really unabashed ignoramuses who come out of said system and provide to the world an image of Americans which, frankly, I'm embarrassed about. Our culture also contributes to the ignorance of our population... if only it were true that ignorance were bliss.

I am inclined to agree with you but im just curious as to what your making the comparision to when you say "a better infrastructure for higher education"

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Yeah, that was poorly phrased. I guess I meant that the level of our universities tends to be higher than most, whereas our grade school is lower level.

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Yeah, that was poorly phrased. I guess I meant that the level of our universities tends to be higher than most, whereas our grade school is lower level.

Ok yeah i tend to agree with that. Though like someone said earlier i think that different universities do speciallise in differnt areas. I think you would be much better off disregarding things like those ranks which look at the overall skills of the school rather the focusing on particular subjects because certain schools might rank higher then others in particular subjects.

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We all know IQ tests are biased. The population who take it don't reflect the general population enough to judge whether a certain race is more intelligent than another. And intelligence is only one aspect of life.

I believe intelligence comes from education and one's surrounding. So, african americans, good amount of them coming from lower end socio-economic ladder have lower "intelligence." BUT mental capacity/potential are all the same among races but mere individual differences.

Josh also has mentioned having bad parents is no excuse - agreed. But imagine growing up your entire life surrounded by drugs and violence. You live in a place where most of the people are uneducated and there fore education and school is not emphasized. Grades don't get you respect but being more "gangster" like does or maybe your family is so poor that you are rather forced to work. The reality is not that simple.

Last of all, although someone has already mentioned this previously, I just HAVE to quote again, " There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." - Mark Twain

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Oh, I forgot to add.

I have seen some articles about brain sizes and races. Whites had the biggest average of brain sizes. Draw whatever conclusions you like but significantly bigger brain doesn't mean significant increase in intelligence.

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Wow.. don't ya think most of the well-known universities are well-known b/c of their good curriculum and staff?

hahaha.. first of all your entire post is retarded beyond belief. Just because you couldn't get into a REAL American university doesn't mean you should bash the American education system... and just because you are a f-ing retard doesn't mean you should try to bring others down to make yourself look better.. lol.. your future probably holds a wonderful job pumping gas somewhere or working the corner..

On that same token, can you prove that they aren't better than British ones? And actually, retard, there are many places that rank colleges nationwide.. a link to one of these sites was provided. So yeah.. instead of being a dumbass.. maybe you should do a bit of research yourself?

hahahaa.. wow you really are dumber than midimagic, aren't you? Do you know why America has a massive job market? I also like your use of the word 'lots'.. really brilliant. "People just plain like America". lol.. WOW! Genius! We now know your IQ was definitely less than 100...

lmao.. did you call me 'dumbo'? I believe that's what we used in preschool ? lol.. So what exactly is your proof that European colleges are the best? Or that American colleges aren't the best? You simply say there is no proof America has the best universities.. but is there proof we don't?

Perhaps you should come to America and go through our secondary school education, because you certainly aren't intelligent enough to attend any of our universities...

Exactly. Thanks for showing dumbass Scru a bit of evidence... something which he did not do in his argument.

tell me...
what's it like being so predictable?

>lmao.. did you call me 'dumbo'? I believe that's what we used in preschool ?

Take a hint maybe?

And oh please. I havent applied to any Universities yet, and I'm beginning to think American Universities might not be such good options after seeing first-hand what they produce and try to pass off as "intelligence" (assuming you actually went to one and don't replace hard-drives at your local geek squad).

Furthermore, nobody is bashing your system. All I'm saying is that you need to stop pumping your chest. This we are the best and all others must bow before us! attitude doesn't help drive your point across, it just makes it seem that you started this thread just so you can get a chance to jeer and beat your chest. You can't expect anybody to take that sitting down.

And really "...try to bring others down..."? Really? Did you really just complain about that to me Josh?

Another thing, I really don't see the point of wasting time thinking of large words that don't drive my point across, so forgive my use of simple words and phrases. This is an internet forum.

I don't see what MidiMagic has to do with any of this.

As to my IQ, I couldn't tell you. I'm not narcisistic and I don't obsess over those kinds of things.

Yes I did say you can't prove that American Universities are better and I never bothered myself to prove to you that they aren't. I was trying to draw a line on the argument; this is a subjective issue and neither side should ever say with certainty "WE ARE BETTER". But as I said, reason is beyond you. And no, I do not accept rankings as proof. They are for the most part quite subjective.

And thanks for the offer Josh, but I do believe that I have received a quality secondary + college education. I would have never guessed you cared though.

Lastly, and just because at this point I just don't care anymore, you are a moron. I'm becoming quite sick of your parading around like a jackass on steroids making prejudiced, hate-inspired and self-inflating claims that not only prove how incredibly stupid you are, but give a little taste of your character as well.

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be quiet man...i aint talking about you..i dont even remember who you are!
.......
.
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lmao.. oh scru.. you are such an idiot. I have never started a thread with the sole purpose of arrogance in mind. This entire thread is dedicated to the IDEA that perhaps intelligence has a genetic factor among different races. If you think this is being prejudice then you really are a dumbass.

I was the only person with the balls to start this thread first.. I do not believe science should be limited in scope to prevent 'offending' people. If science can prove genetic differences in race then so what? I mean, no one had a choice of what race they wanted to be... but, do not make quick assumptions and refuse to even consider a theory simply b/c you do not want it to be true...

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Since rep doesn't mean squat here in the lounge I'll give you back some
stop being a dick
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just shut up both of you ! discussion is okay but this is flaming

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hell yes
Well, I'm glad you give me bad rep and blame it all on me.. thanks man
Completely agree, it's getting ridiculous.
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I think its time this thread was ended. If we were still on topic then i might say keep going because it was quite a good idea and i do agree with josh that science should not be restricted to political correctness.

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And oh please. I havent applied to any Universities yet, and I'm beginning to think American Universities might not be such good options after seeing first-hand what they produce and try to pass off as "intelligence" (assuming you actually went to one and don't replace hard-drives at your local geek squad).

Please don't give up hope. While there are some USians who go around spreading FUD about the rest of the world, most of us really are nice, mostly intelligent people. It's just the few bad eggs deal. And since credentials are so important in this thread, you can trust me because my degree is from the 16/17th best university in the world according to the earlier links. :P

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cool

i only just noticed you were from the US ;) redmond is the home of ms right?, i always thaught you lived in japan before because of the anime

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OK, enough is enough, I am closing this thread as it appears to be heading into pointless and mindless flame territory...

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good
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