OPINION: Who thinks MAKING A POST on these forums is horrible? - Page 2

CTRL-A followed by CTRL-C allows me to copy the entire post (the one I am currently entering) to the clipboard. On other posts, double clicking in a code snippet copies the entire snippet (including formatting) to the clipboard. Clicking and dragging selects a block of text, then CTRL-C copies it to the clipbooard. No functional problems there.

I typed up a long post and for some reason, Daniweb logged me out.

I imagine what happened is that you were never logged in. If I am not logged in and I click on a link in my email, I am taken to that post. I can start typing a response but I can't post it because I am not logged in. At that point I have to copy all of the text I have entered to the clipboard, log in, then paste that text back into the text area. As far as I am concerned, since you can't post unless you are logged in then you should not be able to enter text.

As far as I am concerned, since you can't post unless you are logged in then you should not be able to enter text.

I do agree here.

Dont BLAME anyone/anything on the site's errors and incorrect programming. The fault is the programmers working on DaniWeb.

:Winces:

He really said that. Thought so.

I think the lesson to be learned here is instead of ranting about something, calm the arrogance and simply state the issue you're faced with, if it is a pre-existing issue and ask for a possible solution (whether it be a DaniWeb issue or browser issue).

Also if all websites were the same as all other website of the same type (i.e. ecommerce, forums, video streaming), the web would be a boring place, as would the world if we all dressed the same...

On the subject of blame @riahc3 this whole article(also know as a thread) is based around you blaming DaniWeb developers for issues that only you face... you know what they say about users right ?

Read the full sentence before getting insulted. Nobody can seem to reproduce the issues to the severity that you suggest.

Man Im really trying to stay calm but your stupidity grows and grows.....

pritaeas reproduced the exact issue with the severity that I suggested. He shows screenshots. What else do you want? Pay me a plane ticket and Ill show it on your PC if thats what you need!

Oh, the irony.

The curious thing is that you can "read everything" but you dont understand a picture....

In IE only, which we've confirmed and are working on

In this thread, in that post if the only moment you confirmed it and are working on it. If its in another thread, I apoligize.

However, you say it happens all the time regardless of browser, which I cannot reproduce or find anyone aside from you who can do so. I'll also note that the confirmed problem is only a subset of the problems you claim work together to make Daniweb completely unusable for you. I'm truly sorry, but I can't fix a bug that I can't reproduce. At this point (and until there are reproduction steps) I can only conclude one of two things, neither of which you'll like: You're exaggerating about the severity of the problems, and it's really nothing more than the confirmed cursor bug in IE. The problems as stated are real, and as bad as you say, but they're environmental in nature and there's nothing I can do about it.

In this case, it has to be two; If it helps, I have Firebug running as my only extension on Firefox (latest version)

**CTRL-A followed by CTRL-C allows me to copy the entire post (the one I am currently entering) to the clipboard. On other posts, double clicking in a code snippet copies the entire snippet (including formatting) to the clipboard. Clicking and dragging selects

  a block of text, then CTRL-C copies it to the clipbooard. No functional problems there.**

I imagine what happened is that you were never logged in. If I am not logged in and I click on a link in my email, I am taken to that post. I can start typing a response but I can't post it because I am not logged in. At that point I have to copy all of the text I have entered to the clipboard, log in, then paste that text back into the text area. As far as I am concerned, since you can't post unless you are logged in then you should not be able to enter text.

I was as it did not show the typical join us form at the bottem. That being said, the login issue Ive just seen once.

What browser/OS are you using? I can once again repeat and confirm that it does NOT work in IE9/Windows 7. Not with right click, not with edit, not with keyboard shortcuts. Nothing.

On the subject of blame @riahc3 this whole article(also know as a thread) is based around you blaming DaniWeb developers for issues that only you face... you know what they say about users right ?

On the subject of blame @riahc3 this whole article(also know as a thread) is based around you blaming DaniWeb developers for issues that only you face... you know what they say about users right ?

At least ONE of the issues Ive said, has been confirmed by another mod.

This is another intresting one: Hightlight text you want to quote, hit quote, and it gets quoted two times. Once again, the fine programmers of Daniweb.....

...did it just magically turn one of my quotes into code? Id even consider this stuff funny sometimes. Unprofessional, but funny.

it will if it's indented or tabbed at the beginning of the line.

This is another intresting one: Hightlight text you want to quote, hit quote, and it gets quoted two times. Once again, the fine programmers of Daniweb...

Huh? When you hit Quote in the bibbon above the editor you get the following, which you need to replace with the text you want quoted. A little more awkward than it was in vBulletin, but its just easier to type the > character instead of hitting the Quote button then backing out the "Quoted Text Here" text.

> Quoted Text Here

Man Im really trying to stay calm but your stupidity grows and grows.....

pritaeas reproduced the exact issue with the severity that I suggested. He shows screenshots. What else do you want? Pay me a plane ticket and Ill show it on your PC if thats what you need!

1. The IE issue has been confirmed and is being worked on.
2. All other reports in this thread that could not be reproduced are closed as "not reproducible".
3. Your report about terminology is closed as "by design".

I won't reply to you in this thread again, and it's only because of my desire to help that I'm not ignoring you completely after your constant insults and lack of cooperation.

If you have any more useful information that may help with reproducing your problems, please send me a private message with the details.

What browser/OS are you using? I can once again repeat and confirm that it does NOT work in IE9/Windows 7.

Firefox 16 and IE9.

Man Im really trying to stay calm but your stupidity grows and grows.....

Man, chill out. What are you trying to gain from this thread? If you want a bug fix, post it and see what response you get. If it's a feature you're not too keen on - well, you may have to go with the flow, I'm afraid, if Dani doesn't agree with you. Making accusations and getting personal is no way to get things done. I don't want to sound patronising, but you're making yourself look a bit of an angry eric. I would assume that somebody with over 700 posts to their name has been dealing successfully with these 'insurmountable issues' for some considerable time. So how about some more civilised discussion about some of the features you mentioned? Or are we all out of steam?

but you're making yourself look a bit of an angry eric.

More like looking like a fool. He's the only one out of the 1,000,000 members who is complaining so hard about things. I think he is just trolling.

I think he is just trolling.

I sort of get that feeling. It would be a shame to see a valued member with so many contributions turning to such measures.

My apologies for taking so long to post in this thread. I've spent a lot of time out of the office in the city last week and this due to Advertising Week and then the CES Press Preview show.

I think that we can all agree here that we all ultimately care about the well-being and best interests of DaniWeb as a whole, and want to see the site the absolute best that it can be. If people didn't care so much, they wouldn't take the time to post at all ... rants or not.

First, some background information: The old vBulletin-powered system was a complete mess. Even if it didn't seem so from the outsider's perspective, no one realizes what it was like on the other side. So it was imperitive that we moved off of that platform for oh-so-many reasons.

With that said, our existing system is not perfect. I'll be the first to admit that. But what it does have going for it is that it is ours, from the ground up, and offers us the infinite flexibility to improve every aspect of it. So, with everyone's feedback and constructive criticisms, we can do that.

There were a handful of threads here as to why we switched from BBCode to Markdown to format posts. The bottom line is that this was a well-thought out decision that was NOT made lightly by any stretch. Various flavors of BBCode (aka bulletin board code) is popular among many forums systems including phpBB and vBulletin, and each flavor is slightly different. It needs to be understood that the Markdown language, which we switched over to, is not just some homemade syntax: it's a well-documented markup language that has been in use for years and years on popular sites such as Github, Reddit and Stack Overflow. By this point it's a rather old discussion, but some of the main points for wanting to do the switch is that Markdown language is more conducive to editorial writing (which we're trying to get more heavily into), and it has pretty much eliminated the HUGE issue of incorrectly formatted code snippets and people not using code tags.

One of the benefits that our code editor has to that of others that use Markdown is that it preserves tab indentations, and it's syntax highlighted, so typing in our editor is really supposed to mimic that of an IDE. I think that (if it were bug-free and working as intended) that it's really a huge advantage both over BBCode and also other Markdown-based sites.

So, you have to tab your code ... When typing code into the editor, it preserves indentation, so it's not like you have to tab every line. Plus, hitting tab is one keystroke. Opening and cosing code tags are 13 keystrokes. If you don't want to or can't use tab (aka you're on an Android/iOS), you can hit space four times (only 4 keystrokes) but the caveat is that indentation isn't preserved, so you can type up to 3 lines of code and still have it be less keystrokes than any number of lines with the old BBCode system. But, in all reality, who is typing more than three lines of code on an iOS device anyways?? And, at the end of the day, no matter how you slice it, it's much cleaner looking. The markdown language was designed to make text fully readable in its raw format (while still conveying the intended purpose of the formatting) and not look like text is all marked up with code, hence its name Markdown.

As far as other posting-related issues ... one of the advantages of having a custom-brewed solution is that we're never done creating and improving. As you guys provide us with constructive criticism, we take it to heart and see if it's feasable to improve. One of the latest changes we've made to that end is that if you're in the middle of typing a post, and accidentally hit the back button or click a link to leave the page, it pops up an alert asking if you're really sure you want to leave, so that you won't lose the contents of your post.

In the not-so-distant future we may have a mobile design, but the reason that we have not put much effort into one thus far is simply because there is so little demand for one. According to our analytics, mobile access makes up less than 5% of our audience, which is significantly less than the web as a whole nowadays. What this tells us is that programmers typically don't post/respond to coding questions on mobile devices ... they'll simply wait until they have access to a desktop/laptop. Therefore, while it's on our list, it's been backburnered because there just doesn't seem to be enough of a demand for it it to take time away from more imperitive projects. This would definitely have been a higher priority if it made up any decent percentage of our audience ... but it's so much less than the average number of people accessing sites from mobile devices.

We've had the jumping cursor bug for a long while now, and I do apologize for that. We had it awhile ago where it affected most browsers and, upon being brought to our attention, we quickly worked to fix it, and did so. However, we didn't realize that a completely different problem with the same symptom currently exists, but seems to be limited to Internet Explorer. Thank you for bringing this to our attention ... we were unaware there was a problem, and are now working to fix it. It is definitely the #1 priority right now. Again, I'll reiterate, from what I understand this is an Internet Explorer only bug. Please let me know if you're experiencing it in a browser other than IE.

As far as the change to 'articles' ... once again this goes back to trying to put a greater emphasis on editorial content moving forward. Ultimately, we call every page of content an article, and there are different types of articles: discussion threads, news stories, code snippets, etc. Discussion threads are a type of article.

When you go to create a new article, and the Submit button says 'Contribute new Discussion Thread (Alt+S)', that is because you are contributing a new discussion thread. If you use the dropdown menu to select a different type of article (such as a code snippet), the text in the Submit button will change on-the-fly to read 'Contribute new Code Snippet (Alt+S)'. There are about 10 different types of articles, most of which can only be contributed by either staff writers or within the Business Exchange category. The reason for the dynamically changing Submit button is to reiterate right before hitting that final submit button exactly what is being submitted. In the past we've gotten a lot of people posting questions in the form of Code Snippets, for example.

As diafol pointed out:

DW has some unique features, some of which I like, some of which I'm not so sure about. However, I think you have to look at the site in general, and I'm pretty much 85-90% happy with it. The bits that annoy me or I don't see the point of them are not worth making sweeping statements about the site in general. Of course the balance will be different for different users as they have different expectations, different needs and different experiences from other sites.

Every single person uses the site differently, has different expectations, and has a different idea of which features they like and which they don't. Overall, our goal is to create something that truly is not just yet another one of 1,000,000 vBulletin-based out-of-the-box tech forums. If we can do something different that provides even a few advantages over what everyone else is doing, then I think we're doing our job.

I personally believe that this thread is a complete waste of time... There was no use of it. If a correction was to be made/wanted to share his "meaningful" opinion, he should have sent Dani a private message and discussed it with her.

I vote (yes i said it) that we should end this article!

If a correction was to be made/wanted to share his "meaningful" opinion, he should have sent Dani a private message and discussed it with her.

I disagree only because I think so much could be gained from multiple people in the community discussing changes together. Typically changes don't happen because of one person's (even meaningful) opinion, but because I listen to the opinions of a crowd of people about the topic at hand, and try to come up with a solution that's a happy medium attempting to satisfy everyone.

I agree too, but if its just 1 person (if not 2) out of the 1,019,767 users they should just private message you... but then again, i did mention it was my opinion :)...

(I also am thinking that they are trying to promote other forums...)

My apologies for taking so long to post ...

Thank you for your time Dani. As you can see, quoting you is near imposible and since you use Javascript to do it, this post Im writing appers with a lag that is horrible. Nonetheless, you took the time and Ill try to take the time to reply to your post...

Ive read this on several occasions: The backend of vBulletin was a mess and the frontend was good, but now this new system, the backend is nice but the frontend??? Ultimitly your site is directed towards users who use the site. I mean yeah its nice that its easier for you but you made it harder for the users. The users should come first and then the backend.

I know that you have limited resources as most programmers working on this site work for free and do it in their free time, but it has been months now and I dont see any improvement over the system. I cant say it gets worst either (except bugs/glitches but those are expected in some way) but most importantly it doesnt get better. I come to this site, I read a reply and think "man this is going to be painful to quote and copy code" I am never expirenced that with ANY site.

Ive posted on Github and Stack Overflow and I have never felt the way I feel about your site as I described above. I mind it alot easier to quote, put code, make a post, etc....They may have your same Markdown language but its well tuned so the user doesnt "suffer" a bad expirence.

I have wondered, why not allow the option for both? Is this a limitation for your BD or something? Allow the user to choose between standard BBCode and Markdown. This way you get the powerful but full of glitches Markdown and allow users to use what is used in over 90% of sites on the internet: BBCode style tags.

You can relate this kind of the Windows 8 start fiasco: The start screen may work better in certain situations but at the end of the day it is not the same nor its purpose.

The back or click another link popup is pretty good but what if I get logged out or I am not logged in, in the first place? Either it should allow me to login at the bottom (saving the post Ive written) or allow me to login conserving my post. I think thats even better than the back or link feature but all features are considered :)

Thank you for your time Dani and for being the only person I believe to give a explanation on the issue. This is not the first time so I congradulate you for explaining this. I just wish your staff was better at handling these issues as well because the first comment I got in this thread was something like "you going to complain every month?". I complained my issues a few months ago. I was tolded to adapt and for the third time I gave it a chance. But it is impossible. The expirence is frustrating.

I hope you can make this site better in the future.

BTW, I am not trolling. Im not pointing these things out to waste my time or the rest of the members' time. If you feel this way, please leave the thread.

Looks like we hit a conclusion! Now you can mark this solved so nobody else gets in another bad argument based off of this thread!

Here is a bunny:
(\/)
( ' ')
c('')('')

I originally quoted Dani entirely because its a pain to quote her post part by part

I could have made all the "quote" tags I want copying and pasting them (if theyd work) and copy paste the parts I wanted to address.....but again, since the posting system is horrible.....

And Ive read that Im the only one complaining; There are a couple of other threads relating similar things but you dont hear most because most come here, post their code, someone fixes it, and they go on their way. I come and go from this site every few months, personally.

Riahc3, it was mentioned earlier you can quote using the '>' character at the start of the quoted sentence. No need for writing out lots of quote tags :)

Demonstration this line is the following. "> Demonstration this line is the following."

I personally believe that this thread is a complete waste of time... There was no use of it.

I strongly disagree. If riahc3 had sent me or Dani a PM instead of starting a thread, pritaeas wouldn't have confirmed the bug on IE that we weren't aware of unless we went out of our way to ask. The existence of this thread is the sole reason why we're presently working on that bug.

quoting you is near imposible
this is going to be painful to quote and copy code

Then you should take the two minutes it takes to learn how to do it. Since the last changes (which were made following suggestions from the users) I no longer have a problem quoting either manually or with the Quote button.

backend of vBulletin was a mess and the frontend was good, but now this new system, the backend is nice but the frontend

From what I understand (I don't have to work with the code), trying to "pretty up" the frontend of VBulletin was like putting lipstick on a pig. IMO you start with a solid foundation then build on that. You don't spend your time playing whack-a-mole with a crappy code base.

but most importantly it doesnt get better

Actually, several of the problems I have reported have been quickly looked at and fixed. Even one which was apparently on my end (thank you Dani). Isn't that the definition of "better"?

what if I get logged out or I am not logged in,

I have never been spontaneously logged out. Has anyone ever reported this happening? As for posting when not logged in, I have already made a suggestion (rather than a complaint) about that.

And Ive read that Im the only one complaining

There are complaints ("this sucks") and there are bug reports. Bug reports are helpful and provide information that can be used to fix a problem. Sending a PM to report a problem is not a good idea because then nobody else can respond "me too". If several people report the same problem, especially when using different operating systems and different browsers (or different versions) then this provides useful information to the person or people who are trying to fix it.

Riahc3, it was mentioned earlier you can quote using the '>' character at the start of the quoted sentence. No need for writing out lots of quote tags :)

I tried this. But lets say I quote you using '>', line break, and then I start typing; It still sees WHAT I AM TYPING as a quote. I dont know if this is a IE9/W7 bug....

The only way I can split quotes is a lot of line breaks then highlighting and quote.

Then you should take the two minutes it takes to learn how to do it. Since the last changes (which were made following suggestions from the users) I no longer have a problem quoting either manually or with the Quote button

The only way to do it and have the correct output is copy, hit the quote button, erase the double quote it automatically does for some unknown reason and continue....

From what I understand (I don't have to work with the code), trying to "pretty up" the frontend of VBulletin was like putting lipstick on a pig. IMO you start with a solid foundation then build on that. You don't spend your time playing whack-a-mole with a crappy code base.

Here is the thing: Users love the lipstick. They dont care if there is a pig behind it. Thats the developers problem.
What we have currently here is a great body (backend) with a malformed face (frontend). Users are not intrested in that, even if its internally for the best for DaniWeb. The base should be the best for DaniWeb's users.
Having said that, I completely respect your personal opinion which is different than mine.

Actually, several of the problems I have reported have been quickly looked at and fixed. Even one which was apparently on my end (thank you Dani). Isn't that the definition of "better"?

Well the great body may have gotten breast implants but the malformed faces is STILL malformed (and getting worse).

i have never been spontaneously logged out. Has anyone ever reported this happening? As for posting when not logged in, I have already made a suggestion (rather than a complaint) about that.

Two times it has happened to me in 24 hours. Worst thing is on two different PCs. Both W7 and IE9. Having said that it may be a one time glitch, thats something I cannot say for sure.

There are complaints ("this sucks") and there are bug reports. Bug reports are helpful and provide information that can be used to fix a problem. Sending a PM to report a problem is not a good idea because then nobody else can respond "me too". If several people report the same problem, especially when using different operating systems and different browsers (or different versions) then this provides useful information to the person or people who are trying to fix it.

I considered my complains as a opinion. "This sucks" is just simply a opinion, which many do not share from what I see. As a matter of fact, the title of the THREAD has "opinion" in it.

I quote you using '>', line break, and then I start typing; It still sees WHAT I AM TYPING as a quote. I dont know if this is a IE9/W7 bug....

Just use two line breaks instead of one. Problm solved.

Here is the thing: Users love the lipstick. They dont care if there is a pig behind it. Thats the developers problem.

LOL :)

Here is the thing: Users love the lipstick. They dont care if there is a pig behind it. Thats the developers problem.

And when it takes the developer five times as long to fix a problem because what's underneath is crap you complain because problems aren't being attended to. By the same token, as long as your car body looks great you don't care if the engine needs constant tinkering to keep it working. I'm glad the automotive engineers don't design to suit your tastes. I prefer quality work both inside and out. As a developer who also had to take over code written by others, I have had to say on several occasions that the requested changes were either impossible or prohibitively expensive and time consuming because the original code was so horribly written.

The base should be the best for DaniWeb's users.

I'm not seeing a lot of complaints, bug reports or suggestions for improvement so it looks to me like most users are either happy with the new system or not upset enough to give voice.

I'm not seeing a lot of complaints, bug reports or suggestions for improvement so it looks to me like most users are either happy with the new system or not upset enough to give voice.

Or the worst case: that they're so upset that they leave quickly without voicing any complaints. Unfortunately, the vast majority of new members fit that bill because they're one shot students, get put off by the community rather than the system, or get banned for breaking the rules. I'm sure we could analyze the numbers, but I'd like to think that the active members would be conscientious enough to complain if something weren't right.

Where we differ in opinions, riahc3, is that I think that the front-end and the back-end both are a significant improvement over vBulletin. I'm not going to sit here and defend the argument that it's important to have a strong and stable backend first and foremost (or risk putting lipstick on a pig) because I happen to be overall happy with both the frontend and the backend. Yes, both front and back could always live to be improved, but I think that if it ever got to the point where they couldn't, then something is massively wrong.

Regardless, I believe I fixed the IE issue. :) If it still doesn't work, please make sure you are not in compatability mode.

I believe I fixed the IE issue

At first glance, yes. It appears to be in working order now.