The Fools of War

[sneekula]

Just an accumulation of foolish things said by important folks on the merits of war. I am quoting the Iraq war here, but it can be contributions to any war.

There is a lot of money to pay for the Iraq war that doesn't have to be US taxpayer money, and it starts with the assets of the Iraqi people. We are talking about a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."
~~~ Paul Wolfowitz, March 27, 2003

Iraq is a very wealthy country. Enormous oil reserves. They can finance, largely finance the reconstruction of their own country. I have no doubt that they will.
~~~ Richard Perle, July 11, 2002

When it comes to reconstruction, before we turn to the American taxpayer, we will first turn to the resource of the Iraqi government and the international community.
~~~ Donald Rumsfeld, also March 27, 2003

Mission accomplished!
~~~ George Bush, sometime in 2003

Some facts:
Official cost of the Iraq war to US tax payers as of March 2008: $523 billion

Median household income in Cleveland: $27000
Average income of an Army private in combat: $26000
Average income of military contractor CEOs: $9095756
Highest paid military contractor CEO: $24399747 (Robert Stevens of Lockheed Martin)

[Ene Uran]

Here are a few bitter-sweet quotes by Lyndon B. Johnson, as he slowly got suckered into the Vietnam war:

We are not about to send American boys 9 or 10 thousand miles away from home to do what Asian boys ought to be doing for themselves.

Just like the Alamo, somebody damn well needed to go to their aid. Well, by God, I'm going to Viet Nam's aid!

I believe we can continue the Great Society while we fight in Vietnam.

It is always a strain when people are being killed. I don't think anybody has held this job who hasn't felt personally responsible for those being killed.

If one morning I walked on top of the water across the Potomac River, the headline that afternoon would read: "President Can't Swim."

I'm tired. I'm tired of feeling rejected by the American people. I'm tired of waking up in the middle of the night worrying about the war.

The guns and bombs, the rockets and the warships, all are symbols of human failure.

The last thing I wanted to do was to be a wartime President.

I really feel sad for the man, and angry at the fools that surrounded him.

[Lardmeister]

Some fool called World War 1 the war to end all wars!

[GrimJack]

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

I ain't got no quarrel with the Vietcong.
Muhammad Ali (Cassius Clay)

I'm fed up to the ears with old men dreaming up wars for young men to die in.
George McGovern

Never think that war, no matter how necessary, nor how justified, is not a crime. Ask the infantry and ask the dead.
Ernest Hemingway

The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic.
Josef Stalin

I love the smell of Napalm in the morning.
Apocalypse Now (Robert Duval as Lt.Col Bill Kilgore)

[Ancient Dragon]

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.
Dwight D. Eisenhower

That's not true -- war boosts our economy. Who do you think makes all those battleships, war plains, bullets, cloths and food. war causes our government to spend more money for all those things and gives our people jobs to make them. For every one dollor our federal government spends on wartime goods/services our economy is boosted by about three dollars, and that is pure Econ 101 stuff.

So in purely economic sense war is good and we need more of it not less.

[Lardmeister]

That's not true -- war boosts our economy. Who do you think makes all those battleships, war plains, bullets, cloths and food. war causes our government to spend more money for all those things and gives our people jobs to make them. For every one dollor our federal government spends on wartime goods/services our economy is boosted by about three dollars, and that is pure Econ 101 stuff.

So in purely economic sense war is good and we need more of it not less.

You must have taken an economy class a very long time ago. For every one dollar our federal government spends on civilian projects like highways, schools, hospitals, energy projects and so on, our economy is boosted by seven dollars!

Let me bore you with another quote:

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
(Dwight D. Eisenhower)

[ZZucker]

As this long and difficult war ends, I would like to address a few special words to the American people: Your steadfastness in supporting our insistence on peace with honor has made peace with honor possible.
-- Richard M. Nixon

[jbennet]

yeah well you guys dragged us into it too :(
i bet your gonna bugger off and leave us with the mess ;)

[sneekula]

You might be able to talk the Australians into taking over for you in turn.

[GrimJack]

That's not true -- war boosts our economy. <<snip>>
So in purely economic sense war is good and we need more of it not less.

I know that you are joking but I am going to respond as if you weren't for those who don't see the joke.

"War boosts our economy" is an example of the 'Broken Window Fallacy' - imagine, if you will, 'a vandal throwing a brick through a shopkeeper's window. The shopkeeper will have to purchase a new window from a glass shop for a sum of money, say $250. A crowd of people who see the broken window decide that the broken window may have positive benefits:
After all, if windows were never broken, what would happen to the glass business? Then, of course, the thing is endless. The glazier will have $250 more to spend with other merchants, and these in turn will have $250 to spend with still other merchants, and so ad infinitum. The smashed window will go on providing money and employment in ever-widening circles. The logical conclusion from all this would be ... that the little hoodlum who threw the brick, far from being a public menace, was a public benefactor. (p. 23 - Hazlitt)The Broken Window Fallacy is enduring because of the difficulty of seeing what the shopkeeper would have done. We can see the gain that goes to the glass shop. We can see the new pane of glass in the front of the store. However, we cannot see what the shopkeeper would have done with the money if he had been allowed to keep it, precisely because he wasn't allowed to keep it. We cannot see the set of golf clubs not purchased or the new suit foregone. Since the winners are easily identifiable and the losers not, it's easy to conclude that there are only winners and the economy as a whole is better off.'

AD - thanks for the opportunity dig that up - I had completely forgotten about the broken window fallacy

[dise652]

just joking? hope so

[sneekula]

~~~
Who do you think makes all those battleships, war plains, bullets, cloths and food. war causes our government to spend more money for all those things and gives our people jobs to make them.
~~~

The other ice thing about it is that the cost can be passed to our children. They undoubtedly are very greatful for this opportunity to support their country.

[bumsfeld]

"Military action (in Iraq) will not last more than a week."
-- Bill O'Reilly (Fox News), January 23, 2003

[jwenting]

and it didn't, bumsfeld.

What they've been doing for the last several years is essentially police work, not military action.

[Ene Uran]

and it didn't, bumsfeld.

What they've been doing for the last several years is essentially police work, not military action.

Sweet Jesus, sounds like the Korean War! Call it what you want, it's military action far beyond normal police duties. For the few Dutch soldiers that hang around Iraq it might be police work.

For the US and British soldiers it is war! For example, Feludja, a town of 350,000 people, was totally destroyed to set an example by the US Marines not the US Police.

If it is just police work, why can't the locals do it?

[GrimJack]

What they've been doing for the last several years is essentially police work, not military action.

I think it might be more accurately called 'occupation'. We do not have police in Iraq, we have soldiers and marines and private contractors.

[Ancient Dragon]

I know that you are joking but I am going to respond as if you weren't for those who don't see the joke.

"War boosts our economy" is an example of the 'Broken Window Fallacy' - imagine, if you will, 'a vandal throwing a brick through a shopkeeper's window. The shopkeeper will have to purchase a new window from a glass shop for a sum of money, say $250. A crowd of people who see the broken window decide that the broken window may have positive benefits:
After all, if windows were never broken, what would happen to the glass business? Then, of course, the thing is endless. The glazier will have $250 more to spend with other merchants, and these in turn will have $250 to spend with still other merchants, and so ad infinitum. The smashed window will go on providing money and employment in ever-widening circles. The logical conclusion from all this would be ... that the little hoodlum who threw the brick, far from being a public menace, was a public benefactor. (p. 23 - Hazlitt)The Broken Window Fallacy is enduring because of the difficulty of seeing what the shopkeeper would have done. We can see the gain that goes to the glass shop. We can see the new pane of glass in the front of the store. However, we cannot see what the shopkeeper would have done with the money if he had been allowed to keep it, precisely because he wasn't allowed to keep it. We cannot see the set of golf clubs not purchased or the new suit foregone. Since the winners are easily identifiable and the losers not, it's easy to conclude that there are only winners and the economy as a whole is better off.'

AD - thanks for the opportunity dig that up - I had completely forgotten about the broken window fallacy

I got your point -- wondering what USA could have done with that $trillion we spent in Iraq. Would have made SS and medicare solvent, as well as provide health benefits to everyone.

[Ene Uran]

The General:
"All our extra scacrifice in stabilizing Iraq has worked! However, if we leave, it will all fall apart."

[Drezta]

it will all be over by christmas
- some guy in ww1/ww2

[jbennet]

For the US and British soldiers it is war

I know people who were sent out there to train iraqi "police" and the people they had trained ran off with thier equiptment and joined the insurgents. Great job, we train our freaking enemies to shoot at us now?

[Lardmeister]

I know people who were sent out there to train iraqi "police" and the people they had trained ran off with thier equiptment and joined the insurgents. Great job, we train our freaking enemies to shoot at us now?

It makes the politicians look good initially, when they talk about and order this kind of naive thing. However, the real fools are the people that fall for this and vote for these blokes.

[jbennet]

law + order in iraq / afhanistan = joke

now we see that sadamm had the right idea all along - the only way to keep everyone from killing eachother is to kill them yourself ;)

[bumsfeld]

You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your tricks of war.
-- Emperor Napoleon

[GrimJack]

You must not fight too often with one enemy, or you will teach him all your tricks of war.
-- Emperor Napoleon

He also said "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake"

[Lardmeister]

He also said "Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake"

So, who is making the mistake this time around?

[GrimJack]

Everyone? Pick any moment and say "there! that is where the mistake was made" and someone else will say "Nope it was Bill Clinton"

[jbennet]

anyone here even been in the armed forces?

opinions?

[Lardmeister]

Anyone here ever lost a relative or friend in a war?

[jbennet]

someone i know got hurt in afghanistan

[GrimJack]

anyone here even been in the armed forces?

opinions?

I was in the USMC