Collins: Why this scientist believes in God - Page 11

[christina>you]

Imagine you had omnipotent power like "God". You're going to tell me that you would do good for the world and help everone. We would live in peace forever and ever.

Okay, God is NOT a HUMAN. He does not lust the things of this world my friend. He does not have the same desires nor does he have the same intentions.

Your "God" has omnipotent power and claims through Christ that we should forgive and love each other. Yet 1/3 of your "God's" angels rebelled with Lucifer. Why did they rebel against a perfect loving being? He was omnipotent and providing to there every need right? Somewhere in the bible it says when you go to heaven you can praise God forever and ever. Talk about pride and ego. God got angry at people and flooded the earth, he released plaques. That is not good and holy, that is evil. God is a murderer. God is a child with a magnifying glass and we are ants. He does not care about people, we are here for his enjoynment.

Absolute power corrupts absolutly, even God is not immune.

Of course there is no loving and merciful God to you, you don't believe in Him!

1/3 of the angels fell because they were led of Lucifer, they challenged God's authority, and they failed at their purpose of worshipping God. That is why they fell, they chose NOT to do what God had appointed them to do. It was NOT because He was "un-loving." That had nothing to do with it. It was pride. They became their Creator's adversary.

"How art thou fallen from heaven
O day-star, son of the morning! (Helel ben Shahar)
How art thou cast down to the ground,
That didst cast lots over the nations!
And thou saidst in thy heart:
'I will ascend into heaven,
Above the stars of God (El)
Will I exalt my throne;
And I will sit upon the mount of meeting,
In the uttermost parts of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will be like the Most High (Elyon).'
Yet thou shalt be brought dow to the nether-world,
To the uttermost parts of the pit."
- Isaiah 14:12-15

Again, pride was the reason for the fall. Lucifer lusted to become more powerful than God.

There is no utopia, there is not alltruistic society, there is no God of the bible.

Yeah ok?
There is no God of the Bible? - Who do I believe in then? Satan?
You are irrelevant.

[lasher511]

I can quote you verses all day if you want.

Matthew 5:44-48

Might be easier if u just tell us what they say my bible is on my other computer :P

[sharkey]

Might be easier if u just tell us what they say my bible is on my other computer :P

Sorry 5:44

44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

[sharkey]

Okay, God is NOT a HUMAN. He does not lust the things of this world my friend. He does not have the same desires nor does he have the same intentions.

Of course there is no loving and merciful God to you, you don't believe in Him!

1/3 of the angels fell because they were led of Lucifer, they challenged God's authority, and they failed at their purpose of worshipping God. That is why they fell, they chose NOT to do what God had appointed them to do. It was NOT because He was "un-loving." That had nothing to do with it. It was pride.They became their Creator's adversary.

"How art thou fallen from heaven
O day-star, son of the morning! (Helel ben Shahar)
How art thou cast down to the ground,
That didst cast lots over the nations!
And thou saidst in thy heart:
'I will ascend into heaven,
Above the stars of God (El)
Will I exalt my throne;
And I will sit upon the mount of meeting,
In the uttermost parts of the north;
I will ascend above the heights of the clouds;
I will be like the Most High (Elyon).'
Yet thou shalt be brought dow to the nether-world,
To the uttermost parts of the pit."
- Isaiah 14:12-15

Again, pride was the reason for the fall. Lucifer lusted to become more powerful than God.

Yeah ok?
There is no God of the Bible? - Who do I believe in then? Satan?
You are irrelevant.

God's pride was hurt and he was envious of Lucifer. Very human things. A god of true power would show them the errors of their ways and forgive them. They would love and respect him for it and all would be well.

[christina>you]

Sorry 5:44

44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

Okay, now what are you trying to reveal here?

[christina>you]

God's pride was hurt and he was envious of Lucifer. Very human things. A god of true power would show them the errors of their ways and forgive them. They would love and respect him for it and all would be well.

Nope, you still don't get it.

It was not God's pride that was hurt... it was the lustful desires of Lucifer. It was Lucifer's fault. He was the one that CHOSE his path. He was an angel, he was just like the rest of them... but because of His pride (which is a sin)... he could not remain in Heaven since Heaven is a sinless place.

[lasher511]

Sorry 5:44

44: But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

That is saying love your enimies and pray for them not that you can not disagree with what they believe.

[joshSCH]

I thought you were smart. He was not serious about a 30 second world. He was making a point about religion. No matter what you say against him he'll stick to his "belief" and counter your argument with absurdity. That's how religions in general work. You show them them evidence against their beleifs and they counter with circular arguments, fallacy, wishful thinking, and ignorance.

Read the below site. It's an eye opener.
http://www.godisimaginary.com/i5.htm

yea I know, but it's not that great of a metaphor. The 30-second theory he was relating to was too ridiculous to even use.. The whole way he wrote the argument was terrible, and only made atheists seem idiotic and crazy. Maybe it's just me.. Have you not been to those websites where atheists set it up so that it appears Christian.. they pretend to be a pastor of some church, and they use the bible and Christianity to make all these hilarious assumptions.. Christians don't understand it at all, but the atheists laugh their heads off.. Damn, I have like 3 or 4 links to websites like these on xp, but it has started crashing often, and I have been using Ubuntu.. But as soon as I can, I'll post the links. The websites are so intelligent, and they make such a good point.. I guess I was just used to the way they structured their arguments, that I just felt Rashakil Fol's post was so damn stupid. It was a great idea, but he went about it all the wrong way...

oh btw.. South Park was awesome, they did a play off the movie 300 lmao...

[lasher511]

Aww sweet was this a new Episode (sorry to be off subject) ill have to download it we wont get it in australia for another half year or so

[joshSCH]

Nope, you still don't get it.

It was not God's pride that was hurt... it was the lustful desires of Lucifer. It was Lucifer's fault. He was the one that CHOSE his path. He was an angel, he was just like the rest of them... but because of His pride (which is a sin)... he could not remain in Heaven since Heaven is a sinless place.

Didn't Lucifer envy god? Lucifer wanted to be just as powerful as god, but god wouldn't have it. He sent Lucifer and his followers straight to hell.

sharkey, I see your point in the argument.. If God is omnipotent, wouldn't he know that he would be betrayed.. The conflicting ideas of omnipotence and free will always confuse me. Would god not do everything in his power to avoid a confrontation with lucifer? Doesn't god want all the humans to go to heaven?

[joshSCH]

Aww sweet was this a new Episode (sorry to be off subject) ill have to download it we wont get it in australia for another half year or so

haha yea it was.. www.mrtwig.net

[lasher511]

yeah cheers thats the site i normally use to get them although i dont always keep track of when the new eps come out. i acctually just checked there and the new ep is not quite up yet but hopefully it will by the time i go home tonight.

Id be interested in seeing those sites you have mentioned as well i dont think its really that the christians on those sites are ignorant it just that the bible is alot to get your head around and remeber every single part of it and then people come along and start picking out certain parts of the bible and even sometimes misquoting it then it tends to become very difficult to explain especially if your someone like me who knows the general idea behind it and what is in it but with no hope of acctually pulling a verse out to counter something like that. i guess my brain was just not built that way........
But like i said i am very interested in seeing what these discussions that you mentioned are like.

[sharkey]

Christinia, I was responding to lasher. He said some christian said that and it wasn't in the bible. I believe he was talking about having to love enemies. My point was on loving enemies was you are so sensitive that you seem to be hating as well.

Josh, awesome on the ubuntu, my kids run edubuntu. We have a lot in common, knowledge of quantum physics, software, similar belief, etc. I was surprised when you went against 30 second man. Ha that's a horrible nickname.

Everyone, This thread serves no purpose other than entertainment. No one here will change anyone's mind. My apoligies for getting carried away. 30 second's man blood was in the water and I went into a frenzy. They don't call me sharkey for nothing.

Please forgive me in Christ's name, Amen!

[christina>you]

Didn't Lucifer envy god? Lucifer wanted to be just as powerful as god, but god wouldn't have it. He sent Lucifer and his followers straight to hell.

sharkey, I see your point in the argument.. If God is omnipotent, wouldn't he know that he would be betrayed.. The conflicting ideas of omnipotence and free will always confuse me. Would god not do everything in his power to avoid a confrontation with lucifer? Doesn't god want all the humans to go to heaven?

No, He sent Lucifer and the third of the angels to the earth.

Yeah, of course God wants everyone to go to Heaven to be with Him, but He gives us the choice.

[sharkey]

Lasher, it's easy when you google the bible or search it online. I don't remember verses but I did go to church. I can remember the concepts, paraphrases, and ideas.

http://etext.virginia.edu/kjv.browse.html

[lasher511]

yeah but my hearts not really in this discussion at the moment because im at work

[christina>you]

Christinia, I was responding to lasher. He said some christian said that and it wasn't in the bible. I believe he was talking about having to love enemies. My point was on loving enemies was you are so sensitive that you seem to be hating as well.

Ok.
How does it seem that I am hating? I am simply just standing up for what I believe in. I don't hate you.

[joshSCH]

No, He sent Lucifer and the third of the angels to the earth.

Yeah, of course God wants everyone to go to Heaven to be with Him, but He gives us the choice.

ah ic.. I don't know that the Catholic and protestants actually agree on some of this lol.. but I guess thats why they're different sects.

Josh, awesome on the ubuntu, my kids run edubuntu. We have a lot in common, knowledge of quantum physics, software, similar belief, etc. I was surprised when you went against 30 second man. Ha that's a horrible nickname.

Everyone, This thread serves no purpose other than entertainment. No one here will change anyone's mind. My apoligies for getting carried away. 30 second's man blood was in the water and I went into a frenzy. They don't call me sharkey for nothing.

Please forgive me in Christ's name, Amen!

hah yea.. I love ubuntu, but I don't know much about linux.. just basics. I bought some books to read in hopes of becoming a linux master! lol.. yea, I apologize too. 30 second man (:lol:) kinda pissed me off a little, and I may have been too much of a :twisted:
...especially now that I go back and read what I wrote lol..

[sharkey]

Ok.
How does it seem that I am hating? I am simply just standing up for what I believe in. I don't hate you.

I am so angry!! I wrote a nice post and this site crashed!!

Now you get to enjoy the short version.

I won't hate anyone here or get mad about anything anyone says because I'm rock solid in my beliefs. You can say what you want and I won't flinch. If I was not certain of my beliefs I might take this very personally. Can everyone else here truly say that?

Christina. Again, I don't think anyone here really hates anyone.

From now on lets have all rebuttals to each other be objective. No subjective ideas or feelings allowed.

Man, I said a lot of good stuff earlier. It must have been God's will that no one see it. (Oops, I just broke my own rule, darn it!)

[lasher511]

MDG30FA22087

Heh heh barcode scanner....

844767003252
3QD0LJ53
ST3750640AS
9BJ148-305
3.AAE

[joshSCH]

I am so angry!! I wrote a nice post and this site crashed!!

Now you get to enjoy the short version.

I won't hate anyone here or get mad about anything anyone says because I'm rock solid in my beliefs. You can say what you want and I won't flinch. If I was not certain of my beliefs I might take this very personally. Can everyone else here truly say that?

Christina. Again, I don't think anyone here really hates anyone.

From now on lets have all rebuttals to each other be objective. No subjective ideas or feelings allowed.

Man, I said a lot of good stuff earlier. It must have been God's will that no one see it. (Oops, I just broke my own rule, darn it!)

haha.. yea I agree, I have truly enjoined this thread.. (until 30 second man) lol.. I'm pretty sure over 85% of all my posts have been posted on this thread.. And yea, I'm very certain of my beliefs. 14 years of orthodox catholic, a year of agnostic.. and 3 years of atheism.. I have thought about religion a lot in the last 4 years, but I believe I have truly found the truth. However, I am open-minded of course. If god appears to me, you can be damned sure that I would rethink my beliefs:cool:

[christina>you]

I am so angry!! I wrote a nice post and this site crashed!!

Now you get to enjoy the short version.

I won't hate anyone here or get mad about anything anyone says because I'm rock solid in my beliefs. You can say what you want and I won't flinch. If I was not certain of my beliefs I might take this very personally. Can everyone else here truly say that?

Christina. Again, I don't think anyone here really hates anyone.

From now on lets have all rebuttals to each other be objective. No subjective ideas or feelings allowed.

Man, I said a lot of good stuff earlier. It must have been God's will that no one see it. (Oops, I just broke my own rule, darn it!)

I know that no one hates anyone here, I was just saying that because you said that "I was so sensitive that I seem to be hating as well."

Oh, and I am another that can truly say that nothing anyone can do will dwindle my belief. I have enough proof in history, archaeology, and in my life to believe in a loving, merciful, and omnipotent God.

[lasher511]

Hmm as great as that would be somehow i don't think that he will appear to anyone infact i think the main idea behind christianity is the faith that he is there and that he will do what he promises.

Over the last few years i have probably not had as much faith as i probably should there is alot about the bible that is starting to seem alot like things that humans would come up with to almost give themself and answer to the meaning of life without having to do much work or think that hard.

[lasher511]

Oh, and I am another that can truly say that nothing anyone can do will dwindle my belief. I have enough proof in history, archaeology, and in my life to believe in a loving, merciful, and omnipotent God.

I have to agree with you there even if my last post may seem to say otherwise. I still believe that there is infact a God and that alot of the stuff in the bible is real and that Jesus did exist on earth etc. i suppose my main doubts come from the old testament with some of the stories that you get that seem to be written alot like some of the greek mythology and stuff

[christina>you]

I have to agree with you there even if my last post may seem to say otherwise. I still believe that there is infact a God and that alot of the stuff in the bible is real and that Jesus did exist on earth etc. i suppose my main doubts come from the old testament with some of the stories that you get that seem to be written alot like some of the greek mythology and stuff

Yeah... but remember, God asks that you only have faith the size of a mustard seed! So don't worry my friend, I think a lot of people have doubts too...

[joshSCH]

Hmm as great as that would be somehow i don't think that he will appear to anyone infact i think the main idea behind christianity is the faith that he is there and that he will do what he promises.

Over the last few years i have probably not had as much faith as i probably should there is alot about the bible that is starting to seem alot like things that humans would come up with to almost give themself and answer to the meaning of life without having to do much work or think that hard.

Ah, now you are getting somewhere. These are the first questions you must ask yourself. How would humanity react if there was no god. Would humanity not make their own religion in order to feel purposeful and content. As science and technology has revealed more and more to us, religion has evolved..

(And the debate is on again...)

[lasher511]

Yeah... but remember, God asks that you only have faith the size of a mustard seed! So don't worry my friend, I think a lot of people have doubts too...

Yeah i know everyone has their doubts sometimes and i suppose its probably just Satan trying to get to us and i suppose the only thing to do is keep on going.

Ah, now you are getting somewhere. These are the first questions you must ask yourself. How would humanity react if there was no god. Would humanity not make their own religion in order to feel purposeful and content. As science and technology has revealed more and more to us, religion has evolved..

(And the debate is on again...)

I have no doubt that alot of religions come about as a result of wanting to find reason and in the absense of science the gods came about to answer these questions for the people. This may be the same for christianity but i still like the idea that there is a greater meaning to it all then just life and death. Infact when i think about the absense of god then i see absolutely no reason to continue on if all thats at the end of the line is nothingness.

I suppose that it is probably because of this that reincarnation came about.... just another thing to give the people a purpose.

[christina>you]

Yeah i know everyone has their doubts sometimes and i suppose its probably just Satan trying to get to us and i suppose the only thing to do is keep on going.

Exactly. :cheesy:

[WaltP]

Um thats impossible. If atheism is growing NON PROPORTIONALLY to the population of the earth then all other religions would be DECREASING.

I've seen no indication atheism is growing. The statistics quoted show nothing but the number of each at the time the numbers were compiled. On order to show increase and decrease you need at least two sets of numbers.

Everyone, This thread serves no purpose other than entertainment.

Yeah? So what's your point? :D

How would humanity react if there was no god. Would humanity not make their own religion in order to feel purposeful and content.

A point I have made many times on occasion. In other words:Did God create man, or did man create God? I think that is the ultimate question -- rhetorically speaking.

[sharkey]

MDG30FA22087

Heh heh barcode scanner....

844767003252
3QD0LJ53
ST3750640AS
9BJ148-305
3.AAE

Ok, now I'm the lost one. I'm sure I could look this up to see if these are some version of barcodes and what they mean but how about sharing.