How far does your patience stretch

[Geekitygeek]

Hey guys, I'm sorry if this comes off as a rant; i should probably not be posting angry :/

Is it just me, or do you find your patience stretched rather thin when posting here at Daniweb sometimes? Because lately, i have.

It doesn't bother me if someone doesn't understand something, or doesn't "get it" the first time it's explained; I will happily join others in rewording an explanation and throwing similes and examples around until the penny drops.

There are several things that have been grinding my gears lately though:
A) People posting completely incorrect code/answers
B) People agreeing with completely incorrect code/answers
C) People telling me that my code is wrong/doesn't work when i know perfectly well that it does

Unless it is something so straightforward that i could code it in my sleep, i will never post a code example or answer a post without first verifying, through Visual Studio or MSDN, that it is an accurate and valid response to the OP's question.
I'm not saying I'm perfect, I know i have misunderstood things in the past and I wouldn't dream of claiming that i set the bar for factual accuracy in posts. But some of the things people post are so completely wrong that i can't comprehend how someone could think it to be a useful answer. If you don't understand something, that's fine, but don't then try to explain it to others; it's like the blind leading the blind.
To further compound the problem, i have witnessed people agreeing with completely wrong posts! "He's right" or "Do it the way MrWrong said". Aside from the utter pointlessness of posting just to agree with someone (i don't post unless i have something meaningful to add to a conversation); why are so many people, who clearly don't understand the issue, wading in to agree with bad info??

What has really really pushed my button, however, is something i take to heart. If I see the above, I will post to politely point out that there seems to have been some misunderstanding about the concept and show a working appropriate example of how to approach the OP's problem. I don't expect to have people cheering for me...but if someone then pops up and says "nah, do it the way MrWrong said" I wanna slap someone! Its one thing to not understand or not know, but to be shown a working answer and then trash it in favour of a clearly incorrect one....WTF!

An example; post asks for a way to set the background colour of datagridview row based on value in column. I suggest using the CellFormatting event. Most seem to agree that the following is a better way to go...even after i point out that DataRow's don't have a background property!

foreach(DataRow dr in Datatable)
{
    dr.BackgroundColor = Color.Blue;
}

If I'm QQ'ing about nothing, just say so. But is it just me that finds it infuriating having to defend your posts to people who clearly have no understanding of the point they are arguing?

[happygeek]

Sadly, I think the correct answer is: know-nothing dumbwads who sincerely believe they know it all are commonplace on the Internet.

At least within a forum-based community such as ours you can politely point out the error of their ways and, fingers crossed, the wisdom of crowds will ultimately kick in to support you.

Finally, I would say a little patience goes a long way. I know, easier said than done, but keeping your dignity while all around you lose theirs is certainly a decent mantra. If you find yourself fighting a losing battle in a thread, there's nothing to stop you from quietly surrendering and moving on to one where the OP is prepared to listen to you and the signal to noise ratio is better.

[Narue]

>Is it just me, or do you find your patience stretched rather thin when posting here at Daniweb sometimes?
Sometimes? When the majority of questions are students looking for a handout, a constant state of zero patience is normal. Though I have infinite patience for people who are truly interested in bettering themselves and actually try to learn.

>A) People posting completely incorrect code/answers
There's nothing wrong with ignorance. Don't expect everyone to be perfect. Now if they continue to post the same things that are wrong, that's different. Willful ignorance is not cool.

>B) People agreeing with completely incorrect code/answers
Once again, there's nothing wrong with ignorance. A lot of people simply learn the wrong things. We should help them correct the misunderstandings, not berate them and allow them to remain ignorant.

>C) People telling me that my code is wrong/doesn't work when i know perfectly well that it does
While this happens to the best of us, most of the time the best response is to consider that your code actually is broken. If you can prove that it's correct, do so. If not, that's an indication that there's a problem. Despite what Larry Wall says, hubris has no place in programming.

>But is it just me that finds it infuriating having to defend your posts to
>people who clearly have no understanding of the point they are arguing?
I have no problem defending myself if I'm right. I'd rather end the thread with everyone learning something than stomp off in a huff because everyone else is stupid. :icon_rolleyes:

[Geekitygeek]

You're right; Ignorance is everyone's natural zero state response :p I agree, it's wilful ignorance that wears my patience thin. I'm not as arrogant as my post might make me seem. As i said, i know I've made mistakes and I'm totally ignorant of some areas of software/code. I know almost zero about C or C++ (other than where they are the same as C#) and, as such, i wouldn't dream of posting an answer to a C++ question, much less telling someone who clearly knows more than i do that they are wrong.

I am always happy to debate possible problems/improvements to any code I write, i just find it tiresome when the arguments are based on a clear lack of understanding: If i see something that doesn't fit my perception of an idea i will do a little research to see if its valid before i shoot it down in flames...but maybe thats just me :p

[Lusiphur]

Do you really want me to answer this question? Really? Are you sure? :twisted:

I could go into a page long tirade about my feelings on this issue but I'll hold off on that for now.

Yes, I will say right now that I've made a couple of mistakes (either from misunderstanding the question or being sleep deprived at the time of answering) but I also generally will not post a reply unless I'm pretty damned sure it's correct.

Yes, I've had to watch others who post blatantly incorrect information take the 'kudos' for an answer well given even when I know (sometimes from trying it myself) that it won't work at all and has just further confused the OP.

Yes, I've had that rage buildup inside me that could only result in broken computer equipment if I unleashed it as I don't have direct access to the people the rage was caused by.

That being said... at that point I generally just remove the thread from my notifications list and move on.

Personally, what irks me even MORE than what you've mentioned are the people who ask a question, get 2-3 excellent answers, say it's 'solved'... then come back 2 days later and ask the exact same question (or a variation of it) relating to another part of their code that's almost identical. Yes, I've seen 2-3 users in particular for whom 90%+ of their threads are repeats of earlier threads by them.

So yeah... hang in there, take a deep breath, remove the thread from your notifications... and move on to the next person in need :) Just my 2 cents... or was it a buck fifty by this point?

[jon.kiparsky]

I'm pretty new here, but in the last week I've seen far too much of all of the above. The thing that gets me is the "Here, I've written your code for you" posts - completely uncommented, without a hint of an attemt to explain what it is about this that addresses which of the problems that the poster was asking about. What on earth is the point? The poster goes away with half-working code, but thinks it's okay because it runs and it seems to fix the problem. The person providing the code gets to pat himself on the back for, what, solving a first-year problem like giving back change in quarters, nickels, dimes, and pennies? And anyone who was trying to point out something useful about the language in question finds their time's been completely wasted, as the pupil goes larking off as soon as they have something that looks like it might work - and then comes back next week with their next assignment.

What's the answer? I've been down-ticking the gimme postings and trying to send polite messages to the posters supplying the rote code, asking them to knock it off. I don't know if it'll do any good, but what the hell, gotta try something, right? At least the responses to the messages are polite and reasonable, mostly.

[~s.o.s~]

Is it just me, or do you find your patience stretched rather thin when posting here at Daniweb sometimes?

A long time back, yes. Now? No.

I've come up with a couple of simple points/markers which I use when answering threads:

• A post well written with a polite tone but not too much begging
• Attempt to describe the problem in detail with every visible effort of not making the helper do a lot of work; after all it's "you" who are asking a favour
• Questions without any sense of urgency
• The past record of the one posting the thread; bonus points if a first timer satisfies all of the above

Another reason for you might be your familiarity of the topic for which you are answering the question. Explaining Java classpath problems once is cool, twice is a burden and thrice is a PITA. Ever noticed how threads which are interesting to people won't irritate people posting on them even if the complete solution is handed out or if the OP decides to act like a 5 year old kid? This is because you learnt something new, you enjoyed replying to the thread. Also, I normally prefer not to reply to simple threads since the purpose of any forum is to not only help the needful but help the entire forum in growing up. If the simple queries are given quick answers, there is no room for those who are new to the language but want to help out others to grow. It really feels good to see two beginners collaborating to solve a problem together. At least, that's the case with me. :-)

Regarding the remaining points i.e. people appreciating wrong answers, giving wrong answers etc. In these cases, the best you can do is rectify the wrong and hope that those stumbling upon the same thread are smart enough to decide what's wrong and what's right.

An advice though; *try* to be calm all the time when posting (I know, I know, not always possible). After all, this is "teh internet", where emotions are as valuable as the cost to send those bits across the wire. ;-)

[Geekitygeek]

All very good points, and I'm glad its not just me that sees the red mist sometimes. I 'almost' never reply right away if something has irritated me. And i will always remain polite, even if someone rubs me the wrong way. I think its possibly because Daniweb is the first forum i have felt at home in...I've never been even remotely active on any other forum so I think i take it personally when people muddy the waters of our wonderful community :D

I know exactly what you mean Lusipher (and have an idea of whom as well lol). It is so frustrating when you get the occasional person who clearly isn't learning a thing from what they are shown. As much as i hate to discourage anyone, there are occasions when you have to ask.."Is programming really for you?". If you fail to grasp the basic concepts after being shown them dozens of times by different people in different ways, it is possible you are investing your time in the wrong field. Not every brain is built the same, some of us just see the world in 1's and 0's lol.