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I don't know.
I just always thought everyone knew the differences between 'right and wrong' whether they're Christian or not.

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"right" and "wrong" are relative terms. Not everyone believes the same as you; There are many different perspectives..

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Yeah in some ways... but it's all relatively the same.

Most people believe that murdering another person is wrong.

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Yep. "most" do. However, there are some tribes and people who believe murder is okay.. at least in some situations. I personally think it may be necessary for self-defense sometimes.

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Self-defense. Exactly what it means, defending one's self. If someone feels his/her life is in jeopardy, then he/she should have the right to do whatever possible to ensure survival.

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So you wouldn't count the defense of a friend, or a loved one, in the same category?

...If someone feels his/her life is in jeopardy, then he/she should have the right to do whatever possible to ensure survival.

"Whatever possible" meaning the ability to use any resource to one's advantage. ie. knife, shot gun, chain saw, hammer, rope, or another human :)

So, yes. If any human can save an innocent human's life by killing another human.. I find that to be self-defense.

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I just got through reading this entire post from start to fin. Cool topic surfing somehow all related by strands....

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Just to bring up some science again, does anyone have any background on a topic called scalar interferometry in applications for engineering weather anomolies? I've googled and read some crazy things. I read alot of stuff with some that mention people like Nikola Tesla, Edmund Taylor Whittaker and Thomas Bearden, and other people. Tesla and Whittaker are in history books and old published journals and what have you and Bearden is alive writing stuff. Alot of flame wars surrounding this guy and alot of controversy pages about tesla. Whittaker is considered some math accomplished gentleman. Anyone?

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Wasn't Tesla the one who's supposed to have attempted inventing a death ray? (Note: I'm not saying he actually did this, I'm saying I think he's 'credited' with it historically, and asking if my memory is correct on this.)

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Interestingly, I have bought a book from Bearden, and quite fascinating material IMO, if you have an open mind for it. It concerns using unexploited phenomena of electronics, mostly in the analog form, but insist that the same analog effects of energy can be implemented from digitized solid state. Maybe I am a liitle off, with the last line and he may actually be talking about controling the phenomena through digital circuits, but from what Ive read so far, it is a play on the nature of the persistence of reality. It did focus a chapter on the concept that no matter how small you may divide a sec, or any unit of time, that for a moment all physically reality ceases to exist in its physical form, but persist in purely energetic form but still through time. Sort of crazy, that from an atomic perspective, of wich we understand to compose *most* physical matter, it can be interpeted as frequency of energy. The whole idea of observables not being actually constant in physical nature but in energetic nature is sort of the first concepts of chemistry and further expressed by QED. Sort of has the whole chaos theory and string theory intertwined there, though but of those theories were basis to allow a unified field theory. If anyone is familiar with any Hermetic study, which I have read a translated book of which is beleive to be written originally by Hermes Trismegistus, which its introduction was focused on the fact that all can be assumed as vibrations. I dont know, I may be jumping way out of line for this thread, but just wondering if anyone else has any input regarding this being relavent to dark matter or dark energy........

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Considering that Hermes Trismegistus is noted as a patron of the esoteric versions of alchemy (the parts of alchemy that don't comprise today's chemistry), I'd be somewhat suspicious of any comparisons between his 'revelations' or logic drawing on them, and what we fondly call reality.

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Intresting note. Got a link here that I came across while looking this character up. http://www.alchemylab.com/AJ3-4.htm
That is just a collection of views of Hermes. I have actually read some of the material that was translated into spanish. It was sort of like a book of hermetic occult. Supposedly it was the translated works of some of the 30 something books. From what I understood it covered alot of concepts directly applied to our measureable reality but also presented a non-physical aspect to reality, that wich our minds are not readily able to become fond of. I just mentioned it, because it reminded me of what Bearden was talking about when he covers the concept of the persistance of reality as ongoing observations of a non persisting energy fluctuation. The idea that matter is composed of constantly fluctuating atoms was not part of the "persistant nature of our physical observations" the we fondly called reality until it was logically proven and then physically proven by the scientific method. Even now, some concepts of physics are so out there that the layman seems to have no understanding of it when he considers his perspective of reality. Like a majority of people dont understand the science behind Em fields because its hard to be fond of something you can't see. Advanced physics and some advanced theories seem esoteric as much as the versions of alchemy that Hermes proposed. I read a little of L. C. Pauling's book General Chemistry, which was a good text by the way even if you deny his statement that it is possible to convert matter into other forms energy and vice versa because you don't know how to, that gives you a good understanding of some quantum theory to better understand the concepts. I also read Q.E.D. by R. P. Feynman that at first glance seemed so simple yet crazy, that I had no real solid understanding of it until I read certain parts of General Chemistry. It all seems far fetched to the layman to begin with, but I find all of it fascinating. It changed my perspective of this "fond reality" radically. But then again, new concepts tend to do just that.

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Intresting note. Got a link here that I came across while looking this character up. http://www.alchemylab.com/AJ3-4.htm
That is just a collection of views of Hermes.
<snip>

Ouch! Holy Wall-of-Text there! Interesting comments, but please put a few paragraph breaks in!

... ok, back to your discussion...

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With the millions and millions of books published, one should not be surprised that every now and then one finds one book, where the author was a few bricks shy of a load.

Coming back to the subject of this thread:
Dark energy and dark matter surely is a hoax perpetrated by a bunch of drunk frat boys!

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Dark energy and dark matter surely is a hoax perpetrated by a bunch of drunk frat boys!

The only physics most drunk frat boys are concerned with are those of beer bongs and getting laid.

(Not to imply those are not worthy pursuits though :) )

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Dark matter has been found in space due to it's gravitational attraction it has on galaxies. There is no "normal" matter in those area's so that is where dark matter is found. Dark energy however has no evidence supporting it and is just and idea scientists had. And do not forgot anti-matter which is different from dark matter and has been created in labs on earth. Ene Uran needs to get his facts straight.

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Vely Intelesting! So dark matter is simply matter you can not observe/see? Not too much new about that one! The opposite however is something new, since astronomers have just discovered large areas in space devoid of any matter!

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How do they know that they are actually devoid of any matter without acttually going there? I mean sure maybe no visible matter but that doesn't mean that there is no matter.

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How do they know that they are actually devoid of any matter without acttually going there? I mean sure maybe no visible matter but that doesn't mean that there is no matter.

I read that it's the lack of gravitational pull. It could however be, that the never before observed phenomenon of antigravity plays one role here?

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bumsfeld is right, it is because of a lack of gravitational pull. However anti-gravity is very likely to be impossible. What it could be is a force that overcomes gravity, not eliminate's but is stronger than gravity. On earth with a strong enough magnet you can make a frog float so a force could be overcoming gravity in that area. It could mask gravity from our instruments, making it seem like nothing is there. This force could also possibly not be recognized with our instrumnts.

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Yeah, jasimp might be on to something here! It could be a new phenomenon that shields gravity's effect from being observable.

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