New Release of VB dotnet (2005)

[Toulinwoek]

Does anyone know if Microsoft will be offering Visual Basic .Net 2005 as a standalone product? I can't imagine that they would not, but I can't find anything on their site that mentions anything but Visual Studio 2005, which contains a host of things I don't want. I have a copy of VB6, but I have tentatively decided to move to .Net
I am also wondering (hope this isn't offensive to anyone) how experienced programmers feel about a product called REALbasic? Is it worth considering against Visual Basic? As you might have guessed, I'm rather new to programming so I'd like to get off on the best possible foot here.

[Dani]

REALbasic is comparable to VB6 - perhaps a little more stripped down than even that. I have the mac version and wasn't aware there was a windows equivalent. Good alternative to doing VB-style coding on the mac platform (OSX native). I would also assume that if Microsoft is putting out another version of VS.NET, they're going to offer each individual language to be purchased separately as well.

[Toulinwoek]

Yes, REALbasic does have fewer features than VB6. It's fairly suitable for me for where I am right now, but I'm concerned that I might miss out on something I'll need down the road if I don't go ahead and dig into VB.NET itself now, as long as I'm learning anyway. Problem is I can't afford to pay for four languages just to learn and use one, and wouldn't if I could!
Like you, I'm reasonably certain MS will offer each product separately, but hey, we're talking Microsoft here, so...

[cpopham]

If you just learning, the educational edition of he suite is a cheaper alternative to the full license. There are items and things that you can do with the suite that are very limited or nonexistent in the individual languages. This is Microsoft's way of attempting to get people to invest in the more expensive suite than in the individual languages.

Chester

[Toulinwoek]

Well, I think I can handle something more in-depth than the educational version, but I think it's pretty nasty that Microsoft would partially cripple the individual packages just to crowbar me into the suite! I'm wondering at this point if I'd be better off just obtaining plugins for VB6 Professional, which I already have. At some point, I might want to learn other languages, but for now I just want to focus on one, and besides I can't afford the price of the Suite, even as an upgrade. I might even wait to see what the newest release of REALbasic is going to look like before making a decisive move.

[Dani]

The educational version is cheaper to entice students to invest in Microsoft software developing. However, it's not a crippled version at all. It offers just as much as the professional version.

[Toulinwoek]

The educational version is cheaper to entice students to invest in Microsoft software developing. However, it's not a crippled version at all. It offers just as much as the professional version.

Really? But do I have to be an official "student" to get it at the lower price? I'm not actually enrolled anywhere. Also are there any distribution restrictions? I think it's worth a little research anyway, thanks.

[cpopham]

Yes there are several license restrictions. You can not use the educational version for comercial use or to make a profit at all. No you do not have to be a student, someone even mentioned that you can buy the educational versions at amazon or ebay. It is a good way to help people learn the products, especially students who do not have a lot of discretionary income.
Chester

[Gwen]

You can get REALbasic for free ($99.95 value, no strings attached) from http://www.realbasic.com/vb in a special promotion the company is offering, good through March 31, 2005.

REALbasic is comparable to VB6 - perhaps a little more stripped down than even that. I have the mac version and wasn't aware there was a windows equivalent. Good alternative to doing VB-style coding on the mac platform (OSX native). I would also assume that if Microsoft is putting out another version of VS.NET, they're going to offer each individual language to be purchased separately as well.

[cpopham]

You can get REALbasic for free ($99.95 value, no strings attached) from http://www.realbasic.com/vb in a special promotion the company is offering, good through March 31, 2005.

But is Realbasic .net framework compatible?

[Toulinwoek]

I already have REALbasic, and no, it's not .net compatible. But that doesn't bother me too much right now because I find that programs which require that framework load too slowly.
My problem with REALbasic, as nice as it is, is that its controls don't have the depth of properties I find with VB, even VB6! Plus, there is a weird manner of setting up and working with an MDI interface, not to mention the relatively small number of plugins. I'm looking forward to REALbasic 2005; if it manages to improve in these areas, I'll give it serious consideration.
I think what I'm going to wind up doing is just sticking with VB6 and buying a few plugins and ActiveX components to modernize some of the controls.

[bcheath_1]

I started out programming with VB6. Shortly afterwards, Microsoft introduced VB.NET. I purchased the educational standalone version of VB.NET. I have since purchased Visual Studio .NET 2003 Professional.

I don't care what some others have said, but without a doubt the educational/standalone versions are "crippled" compared to the suite. A few examples:

1.) The suite contains Crystal Reports, the standalone does not

2.) The suite allows you to create custom controls from scratch (ie. Define
your own properties, behavior, and perform custom painting). The
standalone limits you to user controls (ie. if your application needs a
bunch of group boxes with checkboxes in them. Instead of wasting time
creating them all, you can create a user control one time and use it
unlimited in your application).

3.) You are given more options with regards to deployment in the suite.

The Visual Studio.NET suite is worth the extra money. Also, I do have experience with VB6, and I would strongly urge anyone to migrate to the .NET Framework. Personally, I can do more.

The .NET Framework has turned Visual Basic into a real language. That is a main reason for its "lack of speed." Before .NET, VB was nothing more than a souped up paint program........but, that's just me.

Good luck in your programming ventures.

[cpopham]

You can Purchase Visul Studio .Net 2003 Professional Educational and it has Crystl Reports .net, I also have created custom controls on my educational version of Visual Studio. I just can not use it for commercial use. As long a I use it for personal and learing use, it is fine. Now even the comercial version of VB .Net standlone does not have Crystal. You are talking about the differences between VB standalone and Visual Studio. Now granted the standalone of VB comercial is about $150 verses the educational stand alone of $49 and VS Suite comercial is about $1000 and the educational is $150. Also in the suite you can code one module in C#, J# or whatever and they will work together just fine. Yes the standalone versions of the .net languages are chocked down, but then people want more out of a suite than a standalone.

Chester

[Toulinwoek]

Thanks. I'd really like to get VS 2005, but man can I ever NOT afford it! I wish Microsoft still had the philosophy of giving away their development tools for little or nothing just to keep everybody programming for Windows. I guess those days are loooooong gone. Now, it's "Pay up, jack."
Anyway, I found this free (opensource) tool called #develop; it lets you develop under the .NET framework in both VB and C#. :cool:
Awesome!

[cpopham]

For web development, you can also go to aspfree.com and download webmatrix. It works pretty well and is open source. Microsoft is adding ome nice features to try and get developers to lay down the money to go up to 2005 from 2003.

Chester

[bcheath_1]

Just thought I'd let you know. I checked on the current prices for the new, upcoming Visual Studio. Currently, Visual Studio.NET 2005 Professional is priced at $799. For a suite, that is downright cheap. I will be personally upgrading pending the official release in a couple of months.

With the fact that I am just 18 years old and a full time student, the price should not be a big factor for working individuals.

Compared to the returns that software can bring, I would urge anyone to invest the money up front........only if they are committed to sticking with programming for the long haul.

[cpopham]

Microsoft will be releasing at least three "flavors" of the new Visual Studio Suite. One will be targeted at enterprise development, another version will be targeted at smaller firms and individuals and then they will have one that targets Microsoft Office and should only work with Office. The prices for each suite will vary. By the time of the rollout they probably will have more "flavors" available.

Chester

[Toulinwoek]

With the fact that I am just 18 years old and a full time student, the price should not be a big factor for working individuals.

Compared to the returns that software can bring, I would urge anyone to invest the money up front........only if they are committed to sticking with programming for the long haul.

$800 is NOT cheap; it may be worth it to some, affordable to others, but that's not the same as cheap. Also, one of your statements is based on an incorrect assumption: that "working individuals" have more available, disposable funds than an "18 year old, full-time student". I venture to guess that you probably have far fewer living expenses and family responsibilities and you are probably not fully aware of what those things cost.
While I do agree with the idea of returns on investment, and I'm sure that, at least in part, Microsoft bases pricing on what they know developers can earn, still for a person starting out or who is not working and earning in the programming field, it's hard to justify that kind of cost for a suite, especially when you are being asked to pay for components of that suite you have no present or expected future use for.
I could see maybe, and that's a slim maybe, paying around $200 for just one of the products, uncrippled and unhindered by being loosened from the rest of the suite. I doubt Microsoft will offer that, though.
If your current situation allows you to drop 800 bucks on this beauty, by all means do it. But IMHO, it just seems more sensible go with suitable alternatives. In keeping with my general philosophy that it's foolish to pay for what one could get for free, I'll stick with #Develop until I bump up against something I really need to do and can't do it with that tool.

[bcheath_1]

I never stated that $800 was cheap. I said that for what Visual Studio.NET 2003 Professional offers, the price is cheap.

[Toulinwoek]

I never stated that $800 was cheap. I said that for what Visual Studio.NET 2003 Professional offers, the price is cheap.

Ah, I get your point. Perhaps that was what you meant, but it wasn't what you said.

[LearnerNM]

I can't recall when or where I read this. I think it was a Microsoft article site. In that article, the plan was to release 2005 later this year, I think around August.

Each of the Express units (e.g. VB,C,C#, etc) were being priced at $49 each.

The 2005 Studio. Net Standard was being priced at about $260.

The professional version was a little more than twice that of the standard suite.

I will probably purchase the standard suite, which for that price, is reasonable for the amount of programming I do.

;)

[LearnerNM]

MicroSoft is now offering a "go-live" license for Studio.Net 2005. Go to that site for more information.

[Toulinwoek]

Yep, that's pretty neat; you can actually distribute an app created from the beta products. I think I'm leaning now toward VS2005 Standard myself, since I am far from a place of needing the Professional Edition functions. I've been playing a round with the Express editions of C#, VB and the WebDev tools, and they seem pretty powerful.

I still haven't forgotten about REALbasic, but it's getting harder to remember that product. The maker had better hurry and finish the new (2005) version and get it out, or it's going to be overshadowed by VS2005, especially with the Express editions going for only fifty bucks!

[jedisb]

Sorry to jump in on this thread so late, but I just discovered this site. Have you considered SharpDevelop? It's a free VB.Net and C#.Net IDE.

[Toulinwoek]

Yes, in fact I have already downloaded it and have been messing around with it. It's pretty nice, but I have also been playing with the 2005 Express versions of C# and VB and I like them too.
For the sake of expediency, I might just keep using either VB6 or realBASIC until VS2005 is released. I still have alot of learning to do, and will most likely learn C# in the end. A programmer friend told me that if I expect to be programming 5 years from now I should learn that language. I hope he's right!

[jedisb]

Is the Express version you're referring to the same as the free beta?

[Toulinwoek]

Yes, it's a free beta of one of the soon-to-be-released Express products. There is also a beta of the fuller VS2005, but the express line of products are aimed mainly at novices and hobbyists.