Hello.

I am new to Java and I am easing into this new language via some basic tutorials.

I am using the Borland 2005 IDE; it is powerful and I quite like it save for that it seems incredibly bulky, hogs all resources, freezes, tries to shut itself down, etc, etc. It is at times a pain to work with, truthfully. Has anyone else used Borland for Java? Have you similar experiences? Perhaps it is my machine (its RAM is not very strong I admit, but still) I just wonder if it is Borland 2005, my machine, or both.

What IDE would you recommend for a Java beginner to start off with?

Thank-you in advance for your input and reply.

Matty D.

Hello.

I am new to Java and I am easing into this new language via some basic tutorials.

I am using the Borland 2005 IDE; it is powerful and I quite like it save for that it seems incredibly bulky, hogs all resources, freezes, tries to shut itself down, etc, etc. It is at times a pain to work with, truthfully. Has anyone else used Borland for Java? Have you similar experiences? Perhaps it is my machine (its RAM is not very strong I admit, but still) I just wonder if it is Borland 2005, my machine, or both.

What IDE would you recommend for a Java beginner to start off with?

Thank-you in advance for your input and reply.

Matty D.

I can imagine plenty of people responding with the immediate suggestion of eclipse, however eclipse also uses a decent amout of recources probably due to the fact it IS programmed in java (I believe). I personally prefer an editor such as Textpad since it does not provide code completion so it really exposes to you to the language instead of writing the code for you (great for beginners). It provides a shortcut button to the Java compiler and runtime (assuming you have the JDK installed) and also provides syntax highlighting (which we all know is the most important feature). I would check it out if I were you.

P.S. No knock on eclipse, it is a great IDE, however it does use a fair amount of recources to run and for a beginner wanting to learn the language probably not the best option.

Regards,

Tyler S. Breton

I like Netbeans over Eclipse. But on average for me, it'll use between 150-200mb of memory.

I personally prefer an editor such as Textpad since it does not provide code completion so it really exposes to you to the language instead of writing the code for you (great for beginners).

Just small note on this, you can always switch this option in any of them if you don't like it or don't wanted :mrgreen:

Depending on what I do, if it is web application or big project I use NetBeans just for small "test" programs I use JCreator

BlueJ is a disaster. It does NOT teach you programming, it teaches you some button clicking.

If you want to learn the language, don't use any IDE but a text editor and command line.
That way you'll learn the language rather than the tool (which is what way too many kids do, and end up utterly lost when they're presented with an environment where they don't have the exact same version of that tool set up exactly the same as at school).

BlueJ is a disaster. It does NOT teach you programming, it teaches you some button clicking.

If you want to learn the language, don't use any IDE but a text editor and command line.
That way you'll learn the language rather than the tool (which is what way too many kids do, and end up utterly lost when they're presented with an environment where they don't have the exact same version of that tool set up exactly the same as at school).

Yes, that seems like sound advice. I wish to the learn the language not simply a single tool. Thanks for your reply.

Regards,
Matty D.

Meh, I disagree with that and I never said it teaches you anything. It's useful for typing code and compiling code. If someone ever puts themselves in a position where they are lost without their tool, it certainly isn't their tool that's at fault.

BlueJ though is marketed as a teaching tool, and clearly does the exact opposite. It actually PREVENTS students from learning by hiding almost everything.
It also (from what I've heard) allows them to do things the language doesn't allow, whether by having a flawed compiler or by replacing certain styles of coding with other code under the hood before offering it to the compiler.

It's THE worst tool you can use to learn Java (apart from maybe Visual J++ which is years out of date but apart from that not too bad).

Meh, I disagree with that and I never said it teaches you anything. It's useful for typing code and compiling code. If someone ever puts themselves in a position where they are lost without their tool, it certainly isn't their tool that's at fault.

Yet if they start out without a tool in the first place, they would not land in that situation.

P.S. No knock on eclipse, it is a great IDE, however it does use a fair amount of recources to run and for a beginner wanting to learn the language probably not the best option.

It depends what u wanna use java for.

For rapid application design you'll need a GUI builder such as eclipse or netbeans.

I would like to recommend Kawa IDE for a beginner since it do not consume much spaces and memory and ease to use.

Kawa is no longer being maintained, never was free (so any version you find is pirated), and is WAY outdated.

I used to use it myself and it was indeed nice, but it's certainly not a good tool to use anymore and hasn't been for years.

Eclipse is a good choice for an editor. Just don't use any of the wizards, toolbar buttons, or menus except to create a new project or file.

Yet if they start out without a tool in the first place, they would not land in that situation.

Whether someone is better off starting using an IDE or just Notepad is something I wouldn't argue over. But there is no reason or real evidence to suggest that a person using BlueJ would be worse off than if they chose to start Java using a different IDE.

there is, as BlueJ doesn't provide a strict implementation of the language and allows illegal language constructs t be compiled.
It also hides far more from the user than any other IDE, all in the name of "teaching OO".

We used BlueJ at college, its buggy crapware and slow. And I didn't realize how much Java I didn't know until I tried to make a project without it. I was never taught another about command line parameters or how to create jar/manifest files or even how to use packages. BlueJ does have support for packages but it has horrible navigation.

We used BlueJ at college, its buggy crapware and slow. And I didn't realize how much Java I didn't know until I tried to make a project without it. I was never taught another about command line parameters or how to create jar/manifest files or even how to use packages. BlueJ does have support for packages but it has horrible navigation.

Yeah, I bet you never used Bluej to make your itunes clone ;)

Actually, that's what I started it in. Became a headache very quickly. Scrapped it, started from scratch with netbeans, so much nicer.

Actually, that's what I started it in. Became a headache very quickly. Scrapped it, started from scratch with netbeans, so much nicer.

Just out of interest, how do you automatically produce a jar file in netbeans?

I never got round to doing that? I still do it using a manifest file from the command line. :sad:

Whe I build a project in Netbeans, it just automatically created a jar for me. I could've sworn there was a menu option that said "build jar", but I can't seem to find it now.

and on what grounds do you recommend the two IDEs that are considered almost universally to be at the very bottom of the pile when it comes to quality, usability, and everything else except crappiness?

I downloaded JCreater the other day and deleted it 50 seconds later. I'm no pro at java but i'm not an absolute beginner either. I've settled on use Notepad++ to edit and command line to compile and run. A simple bat file takes care of compiling and running for me quite easily. I've got Netbeans installed for a quick gui build, which I then copy and paste into an existing project, or just add the gui as a class.

All the IDEs i've used so far create so much junk code it's unbelievable.

All depends on how you use them :)
Personally I hardly use most code generation "features" at all, except to create some skeletons for classes and methods.

I've settled down on IntelliJ. By far the best I've ever used (not free of course, but cheap enough that you gain the investment back in increased productivity very rapidly).

For small to moderately-sized projects, I've stuck with Emacs and a terminal emulator.

For larger projects, I found Eclipse was too....busy, and I switched to Netbeans recently and am quite happy with it.

I like Netbeans to since it's very easy to get started when working with a Java GUI program.

I come from VB6, and Netbeans is so far the closest thing I've seen to it.

So change the default templates?

wont' do much if the code is generated on the fly rather than pulled from some file template...

The generators suck. Mind it's very hard to generate halfway decent code, even harder to interpret code humans have written and mix it with the code you're generating.

My experience with NetBeans is that the generated code when building GUIs in particular is extremely difficult to read and subsequently maintain. For a beginner I would recommend something like jEdit. While technically not an IDE it has several downloadable plugins through its sophisticated plugin manager that add functionality to make it IDE-like, but still encourages students to write their own code. After all, it is the only real way to learn.
jEdit is free to use and has syntax highlighting for a variety of languages, but is designed specifically with java in mind. Check out their website for further details.

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