Dear Forum Fellows,
I do not like paypal. Thinking of adding BitCoin instead.
Do you know of any BitCoin wallet/service where the transactions are free ? I do not like the middleman services as they hold onto your BitCoins in their servers and if they get hacked then you have lost all your BitCoins. Plus, they charge you extra fees than the usual blockchain fee.
On your websites do you accept paypal payments or something else ?
Jump to PostI know a handful of people who made a lot of money with Bitcoin.
Jump to Postessentially worthless, aside from what someone is willing to pay for them
Sounds to me like stock certificates that don’t give dividends
Or just about any useless collectible.
Jump to PostNFTs and Crypto are securities, not stocks.
That's fine, but that doesn't mean they are scammy pyramid schemes and anyone who gets themselves involved with them is either a scam artist or a victim.
Jump to Postand in fact no where I checked would take bitcoin or any digital coin as payment.
LOTS of places that I spend my money accept Bitcoin, including DaniWeb's hosting company, my largest monthly expense.
Jump to PostThey only have value when the institute backing it up survives. When the institute is dead, so dies the value of their invented currency. The bubble bursts.
The institute backing the US dollar is the US government. Granted, the GOP is doing its damnedest to blow up the …
Since all cryptocurrencies are essentially scams, I do not use any of them.
Have to agree that cryptocurrencies have shown themselves to be scams. In my circles, no one owns or uses them.
I want to reiterate that web3isgoinggreat com is a fine place to see recent exploits, scams and more.
I know a handful of people who made a lot of money with Bitcoin.
I know people that made money on this pyramid scheme too. But they are out and won't go back in.
Haha, no the people I know (shoutout to one in particular who is a DaniWeb member) have had stable, reputable careers in the Bitcoin industry for 10+ years.
I know lots of people still in it, although I admit I haven’t asked them how the industry has been lately.
However, I certainly wouldn’t compare it to pyramid schemes.
OK, how about a Ponzi scheme?
Cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin work the same way as Ponzi schemes, according to critics like Roubini and Quinn, with new investors paying out early investors because no actual cash flows are being produced.
Environmental impact aside, the only way to make money in crypto is for someone else to lose money. I heard an excellent explanation of this by Ben McKenzie. He compared crypto to NFTs, which are essentially worthless, aside from what someone is willing to pay for them. You could argue that commodities like diamonds are the same except that at least diamonds are physical objects.
essentially worthless, aside from what someone is willing to pay for them
Sounds to me like stock certificates that don’t give dividends
Or just about any useless collectible.
Folks,
I hate worthless paper (paper money like $dollar, $Sterling) and ones & zeros (cryptos) too. But I have no choice. Real value money or currency is Gold & Silver. They should make Diamonds, Rubies, Perls & Gems currencies too.
How will I be able to accept payments from my online customers ? Paypal charges you 10% for credit card charge-backs and refunds your customers, without your permission from your account. A lot of scammers will get the products from you and ask for refunds to paypal and not send your products back to you. Leaving you skint. And then, they will have the last laugh. Laugh on you. I do not like that. Not want to give anyone chance to feel satisfied they ripped me off. Read paypalsucks.com for horror stories.
With Cryptos, no refunds. They are safe, in that field. That is only reason why I even giving cryptos a glance. Else, been ignoring for over a dacade. To me, it's a big joke. Sort of Monopoly (card game) money.
But, since businesses worldwide accept these play money, then I might aswell earn them and use them to buy physical items nationally & internationally.
That is all.
So, no one knows of any good wallet that will charge no transaction fees except blockchain fee ?
back in 2008, 1 BitCoiin nonsense was $0.05. About 2yrs back, it was like $8k! So, if you had bought 20 BitCoins for $1, then 2yrs back your $1 purchased 20 BitCoins would have sold for approx $200k! Nearly quarter million USD!
So you guys proved my point. I would not consider the stock market a Ponzi scheme.
When you buy stocks you are buying an interest in something physical (you hope). Foe example, natural resources. As far as I am concerned, the less a stock is connected to the physical, the more risky it is. While official currency like the Canadian dollar, is based on trust (we've been off the gold standard for years), it is backed by the government. Crypto is based purely on trust. While governments have some control over inflation by varying lending rates, the Canadian and US dollars are relatively stable. There is nothing to control the value of Crypto.
The guy who bought the NFT for the first tweet for $2.9 million and found when he tried to auction it off that the highest bid was $280 learned this the hard way. NFTs and Crypto are securities, not stocks.
NFTs and Crypto are securities, not stocks.
That's fine, but that doesn't mean they are scammy pyramid schemes and anyone who gets themselves involved with them is either a scam artist or a victim.
DO you know the origin of the term, con man? The "con" in this case is short for "confidence". A famous con man from many decades ago (mid 1800s) would start talking to a stranger and, because he was so smooth, would ask the stranger, "do you have enough confidence in me that you would lend me your watch until tomorrow?" Then he would take the watch and bugger off.
Basically Crypto and NFTs are the same con. You buy something, which is really nothing, and hope that tomorrow it will be worth more. The scam is that because it is backed by nothing then it is worth nothing. Unlike the stock market, Crypto and NFTs are entirely unregulated.
You may think I have a dim view about cryptocurrencies. You'd be right. Here's a couple recent writings about this:
FTX operated behind a veneer of legitimacy Mr. Bankman-Fried created ..
In 2022, the crypto market experienced over $3.8 billion in losses through various attacks. This was a record-breaking year for crypto hackers. A second monumental contributing factor to the collapse of crypto has been the bankruptcy of numerous crypto companies, causing public investors to lose trust in the market.Feb 15, 2023
Somewhere in this discussion it was written "businesses worldwide accept these play money" so I checked out where I shop a lot and found Amazon, Trader Joes, my local restaurants and in fact no where I checked would take bitcoin or any digital coin as payment.
However in my circles there are a few that sell mining rigs. They won't take this coin as payment either. The biggest mining system is delivered in a shipping container. I haven't heard much from them over the past year as the miner market crashed.
@reverend Jim
Huh! "bugger off"! Yanks don't use that word. Only Brits. So guessing you one. Next time explain to her it means "get lost"!
Here is another one: Bog Off!
As for people wondering what a bog is, it's a loo. And, if you still wondering what a loo is then it's a toilet! Lol!
Or Latrine in the 1800's England language. Lol!
Anyways, Crypto Currencies are not Pyramid Schemes. They are Fiat currencies just like the Legal tender ones.
And thanks for teaching us where "con man" originated from. I did not know it.
Jim, I suggest you start your own Fiat currency. Then turn it into a non-fiat one. How ? You put your thinking cap on. Lol!
@rprofitt
A year or two ago, I saw on youtube Tescos in England accepting BitCoin and they installed ATMs too in England. Try youtubing.
and in fact no where I checked would take bitcoin or any digital coin as payment.
LOTS of places that I spend my money accept Bitcoin, including DaniWeb's hosting company, my largest monthly expense.
Here, I can't pay w/bitcoin for anything I buy in a year.
By that logic, the Euro, GBP, and Swiss Franc (all of which are considered some of the strongest currencies in the world) are all scammy pyramid schemes because I can’t use them to pay for anything anywhere I have ever shopped in my life.
Sure, I could exchange them for USD, and then use the USD to buy stuff, but the exchange rate fluctuates. Sounds to me that’s exactly the same as being able to exchange Bitcoin for USD and having to deal with fluctuating exchange rates there as well.
Also, Microsoft, AT&T, and even Whole Foods accept Bitcoin, not to mention many mom and pop shops in my town. Plus my web hosting company down in Dallas, TX, which accepts Bitcoin at no extra charge but does charge a service fee to accept credit cards, along with many other of my business expenses, are all Bitcoin-friendly.
Only Brits
And Canuks. I had British friends growing up, and I've watched a lot of British TV starting with the classics like Monty Python, Fawlty Towers, and The Two Ronnies.
Just for the sake of argument (and you know how I like to argue), the way a crypto exchange works is that you convert "actual" dollars (actual being in quotes because there seems to be agreement that dollars are only a medium of exchange, not anything physical) to "crypto" dollars. Because most businesses/people will not deal with crypto, it must be converted back to real currency. Even those businesses that accept crypto accept it at the rate it will be when converted to real currency, so in effect you are still dealing with real currency, not crypto. Crypto is just another medium of exchange built on top of actual currency.
So that basically makes crypto a commodity rather than a currency. And that commodity has nothing backing it. That makes it little more than a fancy I.O.U.
Side note - SBF's latest defense is "dishonesty and unfair dealing aren’t fraud so the charges should be dismissed."
"I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today."
I’m not an economist by any stretch, but I’m not seeing your point. From my perspective, you just showed how both crypto and USD are just different mediums for trade, and neither are based on the gold standard.
My point was that unlike crypto, which is as reliable as an I.O.U. or Wimpy's promise, the US dollar (and Canadian dollar) is backed by the government which can (and does) take steps to keep it relatively stable. Yes, we have seen in countries like Zimbabwe and Germany, inflation can get so out of control that dollars you receive one day might as well be used to paper your walls the next. I think we can all agree that the dollar fluctuates much less erratically than, for example, bitcoin.
Or, if we accept your position, you seem to be saying that since the dollar and crypto are equally fake (they are not), what's wrong with piling crypto as a layer of abstraction on top of the dollar?
Let's look at it in terms of software (probably a bad analogy but I'm admittedly just winging it at this point). Let's assume you have a stable library of functions (perhaps dot net). Let's also say someone comes along and writes a library and offers it to the public. This "crypto" library provides wrappers for all of the dot net functions while adding little if any functionality. Sure, you could convert all of your code to use the new crypto library, but then you would be at the mercy of whomever provided this library to keep it available and to not modify it (and break it). Or you can leave your software using the dot net library and trust Microsoft to at least try to maintain compatibility and availability.
My point is that crypto is simply currency not backed by a government entity. I don't see why government currency is considered upstanding and non-government currency is reduced to nothing more than a ponzi scheme a la Bernie Madoff, and, therefore, everyone involved with crypto is either a victim who lost their life savings, or a con artist who should be imprisoned.
In other words, I’m offended that you think my friends who work in the Bitcoin industry, and subsequently profit off of crypto, are scum in your eyes who should be imprisoned.
Not every crypto-currency is a Ponzi scheme. But some are. Just like not all stock/bonds are swindles and junk bonds. But some are. Stocks and bonds are at least regulated by the SEC (admittedly minimally due to repeated budget cuts by the GOP). Crypto is unregulated. Again, you might as well go double or nothing on a roulette wheel. You can invest in commodities more wisely by doing research. For example, betting on produce futures by analyzing weather and climate trends. What research can you do to try to predict whether or not you will make a profit or take a loss if you invest in crypto? If you are well versed in international politics you might make a fortune on currency ("real" currency) trading, betting on whether the exchange rate will go up or down. People who bet on the British Pound taking a beating because of Brexit likely made out well. You can bet that the politicians who were fighting the strongest in favour (British spelling) of Brexit were also the ones who bet on the Pound dropping. They may be assholes and crooks, but they aren't stupid.
Are we having fun?
Posted by you last week:
all cryptocurrencies are essentially scam
Posted by you today:
Not every crypto-currency is a Ponzi scheme
So which is it?
While I don't call them friends, I know people in the crypto business. They sell mining equipment. As I have a background in electronics and more, it's an interesting business.
But do they not hold or accept any crypto coin. I'll not bite my tongue here and write that successful drug dealers don't use their own product.
While mining equipment sales have cooled, it reminds me of the Gold Rush days. The real money was in mining equipment and the "entertainment" that would relieve the miners of their profits.
So which is it?
What "it" is, is a willingness on my part to modify my original position based on reasoned debate. Not all crypto-currencies are necessarily scams. But I think they are a bad idea even just considering the horrific environmental concerns. Aside from that I think I have made my points about:
Let me ask this - would you invest in a house (other than to live in) knowing that the value of the house could fluctuate as wildly as crypto-currency?
You will likely bring up the big sub-prime mortgage bubble that burst some years back, tanking the economy. I'd like to remind you that this was due to deregulation (by both parties) that was put in place to prevent the problem (separation of savings and investment branches). So unregulated-bad, properly regulated-better. I'd also remind you that people in the financial sector were aware of the cliff we were about to drive over and tried to warn the SEC about the problem. Basically what I said - people who had done their research were aware of what was coming. No amount of research could predict the wild swings in the value of crypto.
So are you willing to bend at all or are you going to continue to dig in your heels?
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