New Cold War - Page 2

[EnderX]

I do agree, America cannot win the war on terror by playing by the rules. We can win if we use our strong and technologically advanced military to its full efficiency. IE, killing innocent civilians, using neutron bombs, bombing the **** out of every city, using more advanced missiles and state-of-the-art weaponry. We have yet to utilize our military strength, because people back home might consider it 'wrong'. However, we are at WAR. We should do whatever necessary to make sure we win quickly. None of this 'civilized' rules of war bs.. there are no rules in war.

At one time, what you just listed were the rules. Think about WW1, WW2. Heck, remember what happened in a some little places called Dresden and Hiroshima?

[joshSCH]

At one time, what you just listed were the rules. Think about WW1, WW2. Heck, remember what happened in a some little places called Dresden and Hiroshima?

..and if I recall correctly, we won those wars.. did we not?

[EnderX]

War is never a good option. Second of all countries might like us more if we did not invade so many countries for no reason. Good thing is, since Iraq is a mess, the american public will not stand for another war.

War may not be a good option, but as far as I'm concerned, defending ourselves is a much better option than just sitting by like helpless sheep waiting for the butcher.

America is screwed up and bush knows it. No longer is he and his increasingly uneasy republican party screaming statements such as "cut and run" and "we must stay the course". You know why? Because america is tired of that propaganda. The was in Iraq is a failure, and thus the Bush administration.

If America is tired of the propaganda, then why haven't the Democrats shut up as well? Let us assume for a moment that the Republican party has laden forth propaganda, something I'm still holding doubts about. So has the Democratic party, with their 'America deserves to lose' propaganda. If the Republicans need to quit speaking, then so do the Democrats.

[EnderX]

..and if I recall correctly, we won those wars.. did we not?

Let's just say I'm verifying your point, while lamenting the fact it is now politically incorrect to fight back effectively.

[Sturm]

I am not a democrat, I am a communist. just for fun lets look at these fourteen characteristics of fascism:

1.. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism – Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2.. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights – Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to ‘look the other way’ of even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3.. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause – The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe; racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists; terrorists, etc.

4.. Supremacy of the Military – Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5.. Rampant Sexism – The government if fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6.. Controlled Mass Media – Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or through sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in wartime, is very common.

7.. Obsession with National Security – Fear is used as a motivation tool by the government over the masses.

8.. Religion and Government are Intertwined – Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.

9.. Corporate Power is Protected – The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders in power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10.. Labor Power is Suppressed – Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely or are severely suppressed.

11.. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts – Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12.. Obsession with Crime and Punishment – Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses, and even forego civil liberties, in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13.. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption – Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions, and who use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.

14.. Fraudulent Elections – Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against (or even the assassination of) the opposition candidates, the use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and the manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

How many of these charecteristics does America exhibit?

'America deserves to lose'

I have never heard a democrat saying that. I do not believe america has the right or authority to order other countries. Who made us the Ruler of the World? 60% of the budget goes to national security. That is completely ridiculous! How about spending some money on education Mr. President? Guess it never crossed your mind (not that he has one :-p).

[Narue]

>just for fun lets look at these fourteen characteristics of fascism:
Interesting. And where did you get them? :)

[EnderX]

I have never heard a democrat saying that. I do not believe america has the right or authority to order other countries. Who made us the Ruler of the World? 60% of the budget goes to national security. That is completely ridiculous! How about spending some money on education Mr. President? Guess it never crossed your mind (not that he has one :-p).

Don't have time at the moment to respond to the 14 points you just listed; I'll get back to them later. As to the 'education spending' issue, what's the per-student-capita spending on government-run or government-funded schools for grades K-12?

[Sturm]

> Interesting. And where did you get them? :)

here

[Narue]

Yea, that doesn't strike me as a source that even tries to pretend they're being objective.

[Sturm]

ok, I cant make you believe a person with a Ph.D. Take Dr. Lawrence Britt as credible or not. I really don't care. How about refuting the 14 points instead of attacking the source?

[Narue]

>ok, I cant make you believe a person with a Ph.D.
I don't believe people just because they have a PhD. I also tend not to believe people who have a strong opinion about something because it suggests they lack the vision to see more than their own beliefs. :)

>How about refuting the 14 points instead of attacking the source?
I'll pass. Political discussions are tedious and boring to me. And you strike me as painfully stubborn, so getting into any kind of debate with you would be nothing more than a waste of time. But if I were to do so, I would probably do it by showing how I can use careful phrasing to make America look like anything I want it to.

[Sturm]

I don't believe people just because they have a PhD. I also tend not to believe people who have a strong opinion about something because it suggests they lack the vision to see more than their own beliefs. :)

I question my beliefs everyday. I have never blindly followed anything in my life. I understand why people believe other things contrary to my belief.

And you strike me as painfully stubborn, so getting into any kind of debate with you would be nothing more than a waste of time.

Is it just me, or do you always use lame remarks like that in most threads? "Im not going to argue about open source" or "If I responded I would get an infraction." If your not willing to put forth your opinion, refute someone else's opinion, or contribute in some conceivable way, than how about not posting? Is that to much to ask? Or do you just want more stars under your name? Or maybe you think people will give you positive rep because you are "fair and balanced"?

[jbennet]

Youre great Narue and Josh . I love how you are so opinionated (thats good), it helps to keep things interesting. ++ rep for both!

[Sturm]

lol..nice parody jbennet! (that was a parody right?)

[Narue]

>I question my beliefs everyday. I have never blindly followed anything in
>my life. I understand why people believe other things contrary to my belief.
If that's true then you have my respect for it. Not many people are willing to think for themselves.

>Is it just me, or do you always use lame remarks like that in most threads?
It's just you. The threads you see me use lame remarks like that in are the ones that you post in. They typically have subjective and controversial topics like religion or politics, and while I like my opinion to be known, I have a hard time dealing with discussions that lack closure. So I prefer to say a little something and then move on to threads that I feel are actually productive.

>Is that to much to ask?
Yes. Yes, it is. If you don't like me posting, feel free to put me on your ignore list. I probably represent everything you dislike in the world anyway. :icon_rolleyes: ;)

>Or do you just want more stars under your name?
I couldn't care less about little graphics under my name.

>Or maybe you think people will give you positive rep because you are "fair and balanced"?
Rep would be nice, positive or negative. I like to read the comments. Oh, and while I'm often balanced, I'm rarely fair.

[Sturm]

Yes. Yes, it is. If you don't like me posting, feel free to put me on your ignore list. I probably represent everything you dislike in the world anyway. :icon_rolleyes: :P

But then I could not respond with rude remarks! ;-)

So I prefer to say a little something and then move on to threads that I feel are actually productive.

First of all its the Geek lounge there is not going to be anything noticeably productive in it. Second of all most types of arguments are intellectually stimulating and can actually increase your intelligence.

[Narue]

>First of all its the Geek lounge there is not going to be anything noticeably productive in it.
This is true, but the Geek Lounge isn't the only forum I visit. When those forums are slow, I'll stop by here and harass entertaining people such as yourself.

>Second of all most types of arguments are intellectually stimulating and
>can actually increase your intelligence.
Due to the nature of an argument, not the content. I could go to the C++ forum to debate the superiority of K&R bracing over Allman bracing and get the same stimulation despite the utter pointlessness of the topic. However, such a debate is more likely to go off into instructive tangents than claiming that <so and so> country is fascist because Dr. Hoohaa from Biased Times Magazine said so.

[christina>you]

So, basically you think that politics are worthless?

[Narue]

With the right mindset, no. But people rarely have the right mindset, so most of the time.

[Serunson]

well it is there isn't it. it has to have some point to it. ~ otherwise it should be abolished or summit.

But seeing as a cold war could never start again ~ good old peace demonstrators ~ stand in front of the rockets and rifles pointing at them, while smoking some weed! ~ bunch of hippies! lol

[joshSCH]

Youre great Narue and Josh . I love how you are so opinionated (thats good), it helps to keep things interesting. ++ rep for both!

lol.. what is this supposed to mean?!

So, basically you think that politics are worthless?

..and what is not worthless/pointless? We shall all eventually die, and no one will remember us, our posts, Daniweb, or possibly even the countries we currently reside in. :) lol.. sorry, I was tempted to throw that in there..

Sturm: Communism is a great idea, but it will never be fully developed. Humans are too greedy.. Sorry, I was too disinterested to read your 14 points or w/e.. I'll do that later..

And you know what, I was thinking the other day.. and the best utopia that humanity could have would be:

Ok, so eventually technology will take over everything (waitresses will be replaced with robots, dentists/doctors will be replaced with robots, etc..). At the rate that our technology is developing, a world like this would be probable. Machines are obviously much more efficient at everything than humans.. soon AI will dominate the planet. Well anyway, instead of this forcing humans out of jobs.. it could create a communist society. Such that, everyone is treated the same.. Everyone receives the same food, toys, etc. (keep in mind that currency will not be needed in such a gloablized and efficient economy). I mean, sure we will need a few people to possibly monitor the robots and manage things (maybe robots can do this as well). But, my utopia would simply be humans living, and not needing anything. Science and technology will be able to end the economic problem of rare resources. Humans will simply attend college and study what they like for their entire lives (learning from computers and robots, of course ;)). :) :) What do yall think? I mean, obviously this is a bit far off.. and as long as there is no massive killing in the transition between robots taking people's jobs and utopia, then all should be fine.

[Sturm]

Sounds very probable.

Sturm: Communism is a great idea, but it will never be fully developed. Humans are too greedy.. Sorry, I was too disinterested to read your 14 points or w/e.. I'll do that later..

Humans will someday transcend greed. That is what civilization is all about, dehumanization? Society and civilization in general are created to dehumanize us. So as society advances we will get more and more dehumanized. Your Utopian society will only work when technology and society have been refined to an extreme degree.

[twomers]

>> But people rarely have the right mindset, so most of the time.
That goes for a lot more than politics :/

[Narue]

>That goes for a lot more than politics :/
True.

[joshSCH]

Humans will someday transcend greed. That is what civilization is all about, dehumanization? Society and civilization in general are created to dehumanize us. So as society advances we will get more and more dehumanized.

hmm.. society and civilization dehumanize us? How so?

[Sturm]

because human instincts are to murder, rape, kill, and generally be not very "civilized". Civilization tries to dehumanize humans into being more peaceful and lawful beings.

[EnderX]

So how come the term 'dehumanize' is normally used to indicate being stripped of dignity, safety, etc...?

[Sturm]

gross misuse of the word. Lots of words are misused, it means nothing.

[Squires]

How many of these charecteristics does America exhibit?

One.

Go live in a a truly Facist country for a month then try and tell me America is a Fascist country.

[christina>you]

What country is Fascist?