What kind of ballots does your state use?

[zeroth]

Hey guys,

I've used several different types of ballots in my life, paper, punch cards, computer. All of them are subject to abuse...what we need is a system that will deliver accuracy and give us back our democracy when we vote for president. So I propose:

One toll free number that dials an election server run by Eunuchs (or something). You put in your social security number and password and vote.

Simple...the politicians would never put it in because of apportionment...they couldn't fix elections any more. So this would need a grass roots effort. Say, we have that here don't we...hummmnnn.

What do you think?

zeroth

[sneekula]

Do you trust the Phone Companies?
After all they all too easily went along with the Bush/Chainy 'spy on your customer game'. They could intercept your signal and change it to vote Republican all the way!

[zeroth]

Too easy to verify. I realize the system would have to have oversight...but it wouldn't be worse than the check system we have in place today.

If you take away the ball of twine the electoral system is and leave the election to the popular vote, that 700b the congress is talking about would be paid for several times over!

[VernonDozier]

I think we really ought to go back to the basics. Paper ballot and you vote at the precinct. Way too many absentee ballots. We need a real ID that can be verified. I hate the idea of voting by phone or internet. It's just too easy to commit massive voter fraud. Show up at the booth, have a national ID card, and check it off. We'd have to make some allowance for those who can't make it to the booth so they can vote too, but I think voting through the phone/mail/internet is just too easy to abuse. Paper ballots, punch card, and inspect your ballot before depositing it in the box. This should be fairly fool-proof by now. Design an easy to follow ballot so you know exactly what box is for who, take fifteen seconds to LOOK at the ballot and make sure you're voting for who you think you are, and pull the lever.

Once we have a few problem free elections, then MAYBE consider going into the computer age, once everything is double, triple, quadruple-checked so that cheating can't be done.

[VernonDozier]

Too easy to verify. I realize the system would have to have oversight...but it wouldn't be worse than the check system we have in place today.

If you take away the ball of twine the electoral system is and leave the election to the popular vote, that 700b the congress is talking about would be paid for several times over!

Easy to verify if everything is transparent and the people verifying aren't part of the problem. Also, how do you know the person dialing is the real person?

[Dave Sinkula]

The system used here is optical mark recognition. The ballots look like this.

[Ene Uran]

I think the wholesale fraud comes after you elected an official and he/she gets exposed to a hall full of lobbyists.

[zeroth]

Easy to verify if everything is transparent and the people verifying aren't part of the problem. Also, how do you know the person dialing is the real person?

All your points are well-taken. But it would only take a few people trying to vote and having their vote already recorded to get things right. You could do a few tests and get the bugs out, IMO...verification and people are going to be equal in both situations.

The real problem that the phone voting would fix is apportionment. This is a legal way to fix elections. Look into it and you'll see what I mean. Just take one precinct anywhere and realize that it's the politicians who set the boundaries...you can make the results come out how you want anywhere given enough time and manipulation.

Voting without boundaries would result in a popular vote, a one person - one vote situtation. The official would be elected by a majority of votes, not a majority of precincts, electors or any other way things can be slanted. It takes the vote out of the hands of the politicians and into the hands of the people where it belongs.

[VernonDozier]

All your points are well-taken. But it would only take a few people trying to vote and having their vote already recorded to get things right. You could do a few tests and get the bugs out, IMO...verification and people are going to be equal in both situations.

The real problem that the phone voting would fix is apportionment. This is a legal way to fix elections. Look into it and you'll see what I mean. Just take one precinct anywhere and realize that it's the politicians who set the boundaries...you can make the results come out how you want anywhere given enough time and manipulation.

Voting without boundaries would result in a popular vote, a one person - one vote situtation. The official would be elected by a majority of votes, not a majority of precincts, electors or any other way things can be slanted. It takes the vote out of the hands of the politicians and into the hands of the people where it belongs.

Well you'll still have Congressional districts. Every Census reflects the demographics changes, so the districts have to be redrawn if you want one Congressperson per x residents. The WAY they're redrawn to favor incumbents certainly stinks but how does voting by phone address that at all? We could certainly get rid of the electoral college for the presidency, but that doesn't affect redistricting.

[zeroth]

Well you'll still have Congressional districts.

Yep, you're right about the constituency but the phones would still work, the program would have to have a module for district elections. Can't do away with taxation without representation...unless we go with a flat tax, of course.

[twomers]

Fingers. If you want to vote for someone you cut off your finger and put it in a box. Most fingers wins. It'll mean only people who REALLY want a candidate will vote so you get the best government.

[R0bb0b]

Everybody has a price.

[Ancient Dragon]

The system used here is optical mark recognition. The ballots look like this.

That looks like the same thing we have here in southern Illinois.

Voting via internet would be ideal, but too prone to fraud.

[GrimJack]

Hey guys,

I've used several different types of ballots in my life, paper, punch cards, computer. All of them are subject to abuse...what we need is a system that will deliver accuracy and give us back our democracy when we vote for president. So I propose:

One toll free number that dials an election server run by Eunuchs (or something). You put in your social security number and password and vote.

Simple...the politicians would never put it in because of apportionment...they couldn't fix elections any more. So this would need a grass roots effort. Say, we have that here don't we...hummmnnn.

What do you think?

zeroth

Using eunuchs is actually pretty funny as they are the political party that stopped the Chinese exploration of the world. Without going too deeply into the details, the Chinese trading fleet traveled all over the world (some historians believe it even made it to South America). Chinese porcelain was traded all over the 'known' world. Upon the fleet's return to China the fleet was dismantled because of the Eunuch Party pretty much controlled politics of the time and the Captain of the fleet bought his supplies, repairs and such from the most qualified rather then the eunuch's friends.

The last known Chinese eunuch died in December 1996

But I digress!

[twomers]

Actually my fingers method is pretty stupid. Kinda rules out anonymous ballots if your prints are recorded :/

[R0bb0b]

Actually my fingers method is pretty stupid. Kinda rules out anonymous ballots if your prints are recorded :/

Ya, you don't want McCain thugs showing up at your house.

[Dave Sinkula]

Right. Beware of McCain.

[GrimJack]

Right. Beware of McCain.

It is amazing, Dave -- where do you find this Bull Pucky? No one has a transcript of anything but the responses to the pucky.

You're just another 'ditto head' dupe spreading specious stuff around now that you see McCain/Palin is going down in flames.

[meksikatsi]

It is amazing, Dave -- where do you find this Bull Pucky? No one has a transcript of anything but the responses to the pucky.

You're just another 'ditto head' dupe spreading specious stuff around now that you see McCain/Palin is going down in flames.

we'll see - that lawyer's letter isn't a response - Dave, good find!

[Dave Sinkula]

It is amazing, Dave -- where do you find this Bull Pucky? No one has a transcript of anything but the responses to the pucky.

You're just another 'ditto head' dupe spreading specious stuff around now that you see McCain/Palin is going down in flames.

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.