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and instead of parking in the parking lot at meijers ( like walmart for those who don't have one)

what is meijers? what is walmart?

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lol.. so you're not telling us? that's not cool..

I'll tell you.... eventually.

was i right when i guessed canada?

Not even close.

Know what? I'll make it a a game.

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like safeway, morrisons, asda, tesco, saninsburys, waitrose ?

yep, exactly. I have never heard of those stores except for safeway, but that is the same type of store for sure. they sell groceries, fresh produce, along with anything else you could possibly need

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Walmart is probably the biggest industry in America. When the tsunamis hit, walmart contributed more money to the disaster relief fund than the entire nation of China.

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Most products wouldn't be; a few could be shipped by plane, I suppose, although then you'd have to have farms (or buggy stops?) built exceedingly close to the airports, or else airports built close to the farms. I suppose an alternative would be to go back to mass rail transit for cross-country details. Still, the vast majority of such goods, especially perishables, would have to be used in the same locality as they were raised/made.

In this day and age, a large number of jobs might be able to continue from home (note: Not all of them, and some of those that can't are critical [manufacturing for example]), with the internet or similar local networks serving the company infrastructure.

And as to schools, we'd have to go back to the era when most students went to local area or neighborhood schools, instead of being bussed to the other side of town. [<sarcasm>Oh, horror!</sarcasm>] We ought to do this one anyway; it's a useful way to build pride in one's neighborhood and local surroundings. Schools would probably get better treatment if most of those who lived near them had a personal incentive [again, local pride] to keep them in good condition.

I disagree completely. The economy would fail. You can't try to change all that stuff at once. Do you not realize how far trucks travel just to deliver a certain company's products? Automobiles utterly transformed the way this country operated economically. I'm sorry, but this is just too silly to try to debate on.

From what I've read, Michael Moore basically ambushed Charlton Heston about the issue early one morning, without letting Heston even have a bit of knowledge as to what was going on before the assault began. And the evidence I've seen also seems to indicate that the footage in Bowling was edited.

By the way, have you looked at Heston's outfit in the speech segment yet?

I don't know then.
No I didn't pay attention to what he was wearing.

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I disagree completely. The economy would fail. You can't try to change all that stuff at once. Do you not realize how far trucks travel just to deliver a certain company's products? Automobiles utterly transformed the way this country operated economically. I'm sorry, but this is just too silly to try to debate on.

Let's not forget trains and cargo ships. Volume, volume, volume....

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I am not an animal, humans aren't animals that's why we're called "humans." We can reason, animals can't.

You're wrong. Humans are a member of the Animalia kingdom, and thus we are animals.

Good point RTC, I'm for retesting drivers. I also think there should be an age limit to STOP driving. I would lobby for at 70 years of age it's time to hang the keys up.

haha.. there was an awesome south park about taking away old people's licenses.. the AARP attacked!

what is meijers? what is walmart?

You don't know what Wal-Mart is?? Damn.. Wal-Mart pretty much owns the word lol..

I disagree completely. The economy would fail. You can't try to change all that stuff at once. Do you not realize how far trucks travel just to deliver a certain company's products? Automobiles utterly transformed the way this country operated economically. I'm sorry, but this is just too silly to try to debate on.

The economy would not fail. We have lived without vehicles in the past, and we can do so again.. I agree that it would obviously have a major impact on our economy.. crippling us.. but we would prevail. Greenspan and the Fed would have a lot of work to do! lol

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The economy would not fail. We have lived without vehicles in the past, and we can do so again.. I agree that it would obviously have a major impact on our economy.. crippling us.. but we would prevail. Greenspan and the Fed would have a lot of work to do! lol

You think we could live without them now? Wow. That's incredible. I thought you were a realist???

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You think we could live without them now? Wow. That's incredible. I thought you were a realist???

It would be hard to adjust.. but come on, we wouldn't like all die b/c we don't have any vehicles. Life would change drastically, but we would SURVIVE

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I am not an animal, humans aren't animals that's why we're called "humans." We can reason, animals can't.

1. Yes you are, whether you like it or not.

2. "We can reason, animals can't" - says who? You just can't UNDERSTAND animals. If you think that the humans are the smartest animals on the planet, then I say by what standards?

Brains size? Dolphins have same size brains. Whales have 5 times bigger brains, and people eating them.

Civilization and order? Think ants.

Only thing that separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom is speech and disposable thumbs. All other goodies came from those two things: tools, weapons, machinery, gadgets, written words, teaching, science...

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It would be hard to adjust.. but come on, we wouldn't like all die b/c we don't have any vehicles. Life would change drastically, but we would SURVIVE

Did I mention anywhere in any of my posts that we would die??
Of course we would survive, I didn't say it would kill us.

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1. Yes you are, whether you like it or not.

2. "We can reason, animals can't" - says who? You just can't UNDERSTAND animals. If you think that the humans are the smartest animals on the planet, then I say by what standards?

Brains size? Dolphins have same size brains. Whales have 5 times bigger brains, and people eating them.

Civilization and order? Think ants.

Only thing that separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom is speech and disposable thumbs. All other goodies came from those two things: tools, weapons, machinery, gadgets, written words, teaching, science...

One word for ya, Consciousness. The human brain is the most complex, and our degree of consciousness is competitive with no other species known to this planet.

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Did I mention anywhere in any of my posts that we would die??
Of course we would survive, I didn't say it would kill us.

Exactly; We would survive.. I know it would be detrimental to our economy, but we are humans.. we can adapt to anything!

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Exactly; We would survive.. I know it would be detrimental to our economy, but we are humans.. we can adapt to anything!

True. Okay, I see what you're saying here.

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You think we could live without them now? Wow. That's incredible. I thought you were a realist???

Some people think that it's fun to go out in the woods and hide from industrial civilization as we know it. It's called camping. ;)

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Some people think that it's fun to go out in the woods and hide from industrial civilization as we know it. It's called camping. ;)

it ain't that fun:-/

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It would be hard to adjust.. but come on, we wouldn't like all die b/c we don't have any vehicles. Life would change drastically, but we would SURVIVE

I think it's safe to say that some people wouldn't survive. Consider all those living on islands and other remote places. Cutting off transportation means cutting off the main food supply, and although farming the island's land might work, that method certainly can't feed many islands' populations.

Hey walt, how do you use the old style smilies?

What old-style smilies? :icon_razz:

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I think it's safe to say that some people wouldn't survive. Consider all those living on islands and other remote places. Cutting off transportation means cutting off the main food supply, and although farming the island's land might work, that method certainly can't feed many islands' populations.

She didn't say to get rid of all transportation; just vehicles like cars and trucks.. Ships and vessels would still be able to reach the islands. And if not, they could always move!

jbennet: For the old smilies click 'more' on the smilies side box, and go to the bottom.

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Some people think that it's fun to go out in the woods and hide from industrial civilization as we know it. It's called camping. ;)

Haha, I know what that's all about. I live in the mountains.. ^.^ I like the city much, much better.

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One word for ya, Consciousness. The human brain is the most complex, and our degree of consciousness is competitive with no other species known to this planet.

Key word = "known".

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Cutting off transportation means cutting off the main food supply, and although farming the island's land might work, that method certainly can't feed many islands' populations.

the uk would starve :( it would be like in WW2.

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1. Yes you are, whether you like it or not.

2. "We can reason, animals can't" - says who? You just can't UNDERSTAND animals. If you think that the humans are the smartest animals on the planet, then I say by what standards?

Brains size? Dolphins have same size brains. Whales have 5 times bigger brains, and people eating them.

Civilization and order? Think ants.

Only thing that separates us from the rest of the animal kingdom is speech and disposable thumbs. All other goodies came from those two things: tools, weapons, machinery, gadgets, written words, teaching, science...

Brain size has nothing to do with intelligence, even among human beings. (I vaguely recall hearing that the largest, mass-wise, brain so far found was in an imbecile. [Their choice of descriptor])

But in reference to your argument, even assuming we did accept brain size as an indicator of intelligence, brain size relative to what? Last I checked, dolphins massed a fair amount more than humans, so their brains are, relative to the size of their bodies, smaller than those of human beings. And given the mass of the average whale, I'm willing to bet that most of them would qualify as having a fair amount larger body-to-brain ratio than humankind does, as well.

Regarding your reference to Civilization and Order being represented in ants: Order, yes. The order of the hive, of the totality. Ant's are actually a pretty good example of how a utopian totalitarianism would work; everyone works for the good of the hive, obeying the only individual with true authority, their queen. But they don't have civilization. Part of the nature of civilization is the inclusion of the traits that make individuals stand out - where would our civilization be without our epic poetry, or our great works of art, etc? Or when's the last time your ants did any complex mathematics for you? Not science, which relies on the physical world to investigate, just pure logical mathematics, the kind that can be constructed in the mind. Can your ants do something like that?

[Pictures computer with 'Anthill Inside' sticker]

And one last thing: Humankind has one trait that places us above the animal kingdom: An innate ability to determine right, wrong, and the difference between them. Animals can learn to mimic this trait, as when a pet dog looks guilty after you stumble on the puddle working its way deeper into the expensive new carpet, but they don't have the same innate ability to comprehend it that we do.

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One fact regarding ants: they are pure example of collective intelligence. (As, single ant can only run in circles, but the colony as a whole can migrate, rebuild, devastate...) Something similar to the human civilization, only on a smaller scale. Social order among ants bare painful resemblance to our civilized world. Workers, soldiers, babysitters, queen (hello, Dani). Only thing lacking there is individuality. (We are ants. Resistance is futile.)

Right and wrong are imaginary values exclusive to humans and often one contradicts the other. All depending from one's point of view. Another imaginary value, that we hold dear, is money. You can say (and would be right) that the money is one of the key differences between humans and the rest of the fauna. That and high expectations that, in conjunction with power to observe and learn (intelligence) and implanted curiosity, drive us the way we are going, are what separates us from "common animals", but all of that is observation from the human point of view. For all we know, dogs have different standards for right and wrong. Who's to tell?

My point is: we don't know what goes on in some animal's head, we don't know the way some animal thinks, and therefore we can't say for certain that our way of thinking and acting is superior.

Greenpeace or PETA would say that our way of acting is COMPLETELY wrong and upsets the nature's balance, but that would be true if the nature itself was a constant. Or if the humans weren't PART of the nature's way all together. Whether we like it or not, all that humans do (trip to the moon, sending probes on Jupiter, accelerating particles beyond the speed of light, waging wars, nuking places, massacring 32 kids at the campus...) IS natural and, looking at the global scale, there is no such thing as right or wrong.

P.S. This is not just a reply to the EnderX'es post. This is me with an inspiration for typing.

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