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Why do people feel like they have to go to such extreme measures just to prove a point?
What happened to gd old protests?
Now we fight in the streets and hand over a 'large bit of paper with a load of signitures on it'. what is that going to do ~ absolutly nout.

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About that shooting and gun control.... Why is it that, for instance, to get a driver's licence I need to pass a psycho-test, but to buy a gun in state of Virginia all I need is $$$? (so I've heard) That's what NRA lobbied for, so every crazy sob can purchase a gun (and go on the shooting rampage).

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you need to pass a psycho test to get a driving licence?

to get mine all i had to do was have a passport and fill in some forms

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PETA is People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Basically, they support everyone turning vegan and prevent animal testing for new medicines and such.

haha.. there is a great south park episode about peta.. they portray the group almost perfectly..

Its not that group i dont think but here in the UK animal rights activists waged terror upon the family of the owner of an animal testing place. they dug up his mums grave. thats not cool.

I don't understand it either.. It seems these people care more about animals than people.. WHY? Who gives a damn about animals?? Those damn animal rights activists are like freakn fascists.. You so much as lay a hand on any animal, and you better watch your back! lol.. crazy people..

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you need to pass a psycho test to get a driving licence?

to get mine all i had to do was have a passport and fill in some forms

All I had to do was have my dad sign some papers (parent taught driver's ed.).. You take a test to get your permit at 16, and then at 18 all you do is pay $5, and you have a legal Texas Driver's License.

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ah here in the UK you cant start learning until your 17 and cant drive until you are 18 :( but you can ride a moped at 16 :)

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For the diving licence I need to:

- pass a full physical exam (including a psycho test)
- do 30 h of traffic lesions (classroom stuff)
- do 30 h of driving (the "L" car stuff)
- pass a first aid test
- pass a traffic exam (written test)
- pass a driving test
- pay an arm and a leg
- not before the age of 18

New laws say that the rookie drivers can only drive with senior driver in the car for 2 years. Also, rookie drivers can drive only from 7 AM to 11 PM. Now that's a silly law.

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For the diving licence I need to:

- pass a full physical exam (including a psycho test)
- do 30 h of traffic lesions (classroom stuff)
- do 30 h of driving (the "L" car stuff)
- pass a first aid test
- pass a traffic exam (written test)
- pass a driving test
- pay an arm and a leg
- not before the age of 18

New laws say that the rookie drivers can only drive with senior driver in the car for 2 years. Also, rookie drivers can drive only from 7 AM to 11 PM. Now that's a silly law.

what? that sucks.. where do you live?

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New laws say that the rookie drivers can only drive with senior driver in the car for 2 years. Also, rookie drivers can drive only from 7 AM to 11 PM. Now that's a silly law.

So glad you think it's silly. You know why they have laws like that? Because a select few drivers your age are not responsible, so you get to pay for it. Same for your auto insurance rates. And now you're trying to the same thing with guns, but it's suddenly not as silly to do so.

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Yea..in good 'ole Tennessee, you only need a parent's signature and $5. And that's at age 16, of course. :icon_biggrin:

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>PETA is People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals
I always thought it was "People for the Eating of Tasty Animals"... ;-)

>>what? that sucks.. where do you live?
>canada i think?
If it isn't Canada, it's very similar, because the driving laws around here are pretty restrictive, even though an individual may get a learner's license at age 16, it's about 2 years before they can get a full license (and that's assuming that they pass the tests).

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>>what? that sucks.. where do you live?
>canada i think?
If it isn't Canada, it's very similar, because the driving laws around here are pretty restrictive, even though an individual may get a learner's license at age 16, it's about 2 years before they can get a full license (and that's assuming that they pass the tests).

We've got a similar system here. Lots of restrictions for the first 6 months, then after that only a few restrictions (unless you get a ticket), then at 18 it's a regular license.

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PETA is People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Basically, they support everyone turning vegan and prevent animal testing for new medicines and such.

Ahh, I see.

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Animal rights? Animals can't vote -- they have no rights!

Why is it that, for instance, to get a driver's licence I need to pass a psycho-test...

Have you read some of your posts? Can you blame them? :icon_twisted:

What is the NRA?
a terrorist group?

Yes :icon_razz:

The NRA is a necessary evil. I don't like how they do things, but without their lobbying efforts, we'd likely have some ridiculous half-assed gun control laws that wouldn't work at all.

Oh, the ones we have now work? Is this a definition of work I'm not familiar with?

... they're more or less defending the Second Amendment...

As long as you reinterpret the words and the meaning away from what the Founding Fathers meant. They aren't defending the 2nd. They are twisting the 2nd and fighting for that twisted reinterpretation. It's identical to a religious argument... :icon_wink:

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Hey walt, how do you use the old style smilies?

also, that gun he used. That had a rather big clip. I thaught there was meant to be restrictions? I mean, no civilian would have a legitimate use for a weapon with more than 7 shots, could they?

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Animal rights? Animals can't vote -- they have no rights!

Humans are animals too. Worst kind of animals. Only kind that kills for no reason.

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No, the brady bill was repealed, or didn't make it through, or something or another.

I'm not sure about all of the laws. I know that I have a firearms permit, and I had to have an extensive background check to get it. The VT shooter had been through psych hospitals and had a record for stalking. I would think that if they did a background check, he would probably be refused a firearms permit. Now do you need a valid permit in order to purchase a firearm? I had always assumed so but evidently in this case not.

and btw, How many gang bangers and other hoodlums and ne'er do wells actually carrey valid firearms permits and or purchase their firearms through legal channels?

and of driving licenses, I sweated the tests, I had to parrallel park correctly, I had to have my hands on "10" and "2", all with a stern man with a tie and a clipboard in my passenger seat who would repeatedly frown and scribble... But what about those 80 and 90 year olds who forget their names or where they are going? at any rate, once you past your tests bad habbits start slipping in and before long you are slouching, eating, drinking, talking on your cell phone and reaching for another CD to put in the stereo... I should lobby for repeated retesting... It seems like in the US once you have your license you are golden forever. ;)

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Yea..in good 'ole Tennessee, you only need a parent's signature and $5. And that's at age 16, of course. :icon_biggrin:

Ditto for Michigan

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Humans are animals too. Worst kind of animals. Only kind that kills for no reason.

I am not an animal, humans aren't animals that's why we're called "humans." We can reason, animals can't.

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what about those 80 and 90 year olds who forget their names or where they are going? at any rate, once you past your tests bad habbits start slipping in and before long you are slouching, eating, drinking, talking on your cell phone and reaching for another CD to put in the stereo... I should lobby for repeated retesting... It seems like in the US once you have your license you are golden forever. ;)

Good point RTC, I'm for retesting drivers. I also think there should be an age limit to STOP driving. I would lobby for at 70 years of age it's time to hang the keys up.

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Good point RTC, I'm for retesting drivers. I also think there should be an age limit to STOP driving. I would lobby for at 70 years of age it's time to hang the keys up.

That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Just because old people drive cautosly doesn't mean they need to have their license taken away. I agree the driving age should be raised to 18 or 20 or when people actually mature. And we should have drivers retest every few years.
Btw, I'm not old.

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Good point RTC, I'm for retesting drivers. I also think there should be an age limit to STOP driving. I would lobby for at 70 years of age it's time to hang the keys up.

While I also support retesting, I don't think there should be an upper age limit. There are many drivers who are past 70 who still drive just fine. And with people keeping healthy into later years, that number will just go up. It's another case of the select few who are starting to wear down.

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The Supreme Court does not want to rule on issues like this because it sets a precedent from which there is no return. A good example is Michael Newdow's attempt to have the words Under God and In God We Trust removed from the pledge of allegiance and our currency, if they decide on this it will have serious effects either way it goes. On the one hand it could make this a conflict with our constitution regarding the separation of God and state. On the other hand if it went the other way it could mean the removal of the word God from most every thing in public.

Want a good chuckle? Check out Dumb Laws. Now here are some law that need changing!

Exactly where in the Constitution is the separation of God and state, or even church and state, mentioned? The only thing I can specifically come up with is the First Amendment, which simply states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof;" regarding the topic. The major mention of this kind of separation is usually drawn from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a group of churchmen as an explanation of why the Government wouldn't act to shut down a specific branch of the church. (I think the clergy in question actually wanted the government to act in this case, but I can't recall offhand.)

I'll have to check out those laws at some point; those kinds of lists are always humorous.

How would products be shipped across the country without trucks? How would people get to work without cars and schools without buses? Economy would fail.

Most products wouldn't be; a few could be shipped by plane, I suppose, although then you'd have to have farms (or buggy stops?) built exceedingly close to the airports, or else airports built close to the farms. I suppose an alternative would be to go back to mass rail transit for cross-country details. Still, the vast majority of such goods, especially perishables, would have to be used in the same locality as they were raised/made.

In this day and age, a large number of jobs might be able to continue from home (note: Not all of them, and some of those that can't are critical [manufacturing for example]), with the internet or similar local networks serving the company infrastructure.

And as to schools, we'd have to go back to the era when most students went to local area or neighborhood schools, instead of being bussed to the other side of town. [<sarcasm>Oh, horror!</sarcasm>] We ought to do this one anyway; it's a useful way to build pride in one's neighborhood and local surroundings. Schools would probably get better treatment if most of those who lived near them had a personal incentive [again, local pride] to keep them in good condition.

The NRA were pretty gay. Like I've said this whole thread, watch Bowling For Columbine. Michael Moore actually confronts the president of the NRA about why he went to the town of Columbine the same week as the shooting.... and if you'll watch, he's very hesitant to answer questions and doesn't really have a logical explanation for anything. He's very rude. I mean I know people love guns, but that guy is obsessed.

From what I've read, Michael Moore basically ambushed Charlton Heston about the issue early one morning, without letting Heston even have a bit of knowledge as to what was going on before the assault began. And the evidence I've seen also seems to indicate that the footage in Bowling was edited.

By the way, have you looked at Heston's outfit in the speech segment yet?


Animal rights? Animals can't vote -- they have no rights!

Not voting isn't the reason animals don't have rights. In human terms, it's because the animals themselves do not (and cannot) stand for such rights themselves. Or do you suppose that the elk a pack of wolves brings down tries to reason with them that they shouldn't kill it because of its right to life? Human Beings are the only creatures with the rational capacity or inherent nature to understand and respect rights. (Note: This doesn't mean that all of us* do respect them, merely that we're capable of it.) Humans may have a native duty to protect animals (and plants) from abuse or mistreatment, but this duty on the part of humankind does not translate into a right on the part of the plants or animals in question.

Oh, the ones we have now work? Is this a definition of work I'm not familiar with?

Work: Take your pick.

As long as you reinterpret the words and the meaning away from what the Founding Fathers meant. They aren't defending the 2nd. They are twisting the 2nd and fighting for that twisted reinterpretation. It's identical to a religious argument...

And you, I presume, know exactly what the founders of this nation meant by their written statements? Or were you present, perhaps, at the discussions that surrounded these amendments? As to the 'religious' component of your argument, I'd argue that the 'no guns anywhere' side has more of a religious component than the 'guns where needed' side does; they require a faith that guns are the source of problems (as opposed to the individuals who use them) and a faith that everyone will gladly give up their guns when asked to do so. (Which the criminal class will not, naturally...a honed or innate 'rejection of standard law' outlook is pretty much a part of the job description for 'criminal'.)

It should also be noted that one of the major reasons that governmental bodies attempt to disarm their citizens or subjects is that it increases a form of power disperity. For example, slaves weren't permitted to bear arms in early America, or the Jews under Hitler's Germany.

And on the 'National Guard == militia' argument, the National Guard is a portion of the Federal Armed Services. Its charter (or at least the parts I've seen) indicate that it serves at the behest of Congress. As such, it is not a citizens militia. The purpose of a citizens militia is to protect the citizens of the State from abuse or assault by the government of the State (In this case, the Federal Government of the United States of America). I fail to see how a body that is officially a part of the federal military, with a clear chain of command culminating in the head of state (in the role of CiC), could also serve as a line of defense against the federal government. There would seem to be a conflict of interest at that point.


*I'm at least assuming everyone reading this is human...

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That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Just because old people drive cautosly doesn't mean they need to have their license taken away.

I'am not talking about driving cautiously, I'm talking about elderly people who take their meds and go driving to do their daily errands, and instead of parking in the parking lot at meijers ( like walmart for those who don't have one) they just pass out at the wheel, or better yet "zone out" and drive right threw the front of the store into the check out lanes ( true story). Or how about when elderly people use the passing lane as a turning lane, I could go on and on about the accidents they cause, but we all have witnessed it at one time or another. So anyhow maybe completely stripping their license is a little harsh, but I do agree they certainly need to be retested....Like evey month.

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