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I'm not the one who came up with those numbers. And from what I've seen, the really rich, as you've just described, tend to be democrats...at least going by historical donations to the two parties.

I think you are right, it's more the guy that owns one large pickup truck, one Bible and couple of guns, that is a true republican.

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Looks like the politicians are winning the poll hands down, or should I say "hands in your pocket".

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John Sidney McCain III might actually be the most honest politician around.

He would never get elected, voters don't want to be told the truth!

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Maybe truth is inconvenient when it comes from a politician?

Lardmeister, for your young age you sure are versed in politics! Had to laugh about that connection!

You are right, voters to large extent want to hear what they like to hear, and that is not necessarily the truth. In this sense they are corrupting the politicians to give untruths and halftruths. If you elect liar, you get liar. So, the most dishonest group of people might be the voters, at least dishonest to themselves.

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So, the most dishonest group of people might be the voters, at least dishonest to themselves.

Yes, there is quite a bit of truth to that. Voters don't want to get bogged down in the sticky compromises necessary to achieve what they want nor the inherent contradictions in what they demand (i.e. "Lower our taxes yet do more stuff for us!").

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Tax cuts are drastically needed, so we can have REAL JOBS again.

So, who is dishonest here?

REAL JOBS are more related to an excellent education, IMHO.

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Tax cuts are drastically needed, so we can have REAL JOBS again.

So in your opinion, what are "REAL JOBS" and how do they relate to tax cuts?

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So in your opinion, what are "REAL JOBS" and how do they relate to tax cuts?

Real jobs are productive jobs, where people work to produce a product or service that other people want and able to pay for.

Taxes take away money from individuals and businesses. That money would otherwise be used to buy the products that would cause businesses to need to hire more people.

Work is the major source of wealth.
Eating and shelter are the major consumers of wealth.

Here are examples of jobs that are not "real" jobs, because they do not produce a product or service that most people want to buy. These jobs consume wealth, instead of creating it:

- Tax collector
- Artist (except commercial art, and the very few who become collectible)
- Actor (except the very few used by Hollywodd)
- Musician (except the very few used by record companies)
- Bureaucrat
- Assessor
- Elected official
- Curator
- Actuary
- Government regulator
- Building inspector
- Planning and zoning expert
- Parking meter attendant
- Teachers teaching nonproductive skills (e.g. classical literature, poetry, folklore)
- Public school team coaches
- Government comptroller
- Customs officer
- Environmentalist

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Eating and shelter are the major consumers of wealth.

So, if we all stop eating and sit outside, this nation will the wealthiest in the world!

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So, if we all stop eating and sit outside, this nation will the wealthiest in the world!

Only so long as you continue to work productively. Or, to put it a bit more clearly, some consumption (in those areas if nowhere else) is required to keep production at maximum effeciency. Hungry, sore (from sleeping on the ground outside) workers don't tend to do much to help create an effecient workplace.

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I would have voted a virtual tie between corporate and polititians, but it wasn't in the choices.

Polititians lie for the very same reasons as corporate leaders, for profit. Most often they are business driven, though sometimes it's a matter of their personal agenda / obsession.

The very notion of the business corporation is to abrogate responsibility for the actions taken by the corporate leaders. Of course they lie, they can get (generally) away with it.

Business is a logical result of Greed. And Greed all too often does not ascribe to ethics.

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Business is a logical result of Greed. And Greed all too often does not ascribe to ethics.

Mind explaining that logical jump, please? I'll agree with your second statement, but I don't see business as the logical result of greed, and I'm wondering how you're getting to that point.

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Mind explaining that logical jump, please? I'll agree with your second statement, but I don't see business as the logical result of greed, and I'm wondering how you're getting to that point.

Fair enough.

I don't mean that all business is run by greedy people, I mean that business is a natural path for a greedy person to take, the path of least resistance to furthering his ends.

What other choices does he have? In order to accumulate, you need a mechanism. Business, in any form, can be that mechanism. A more direct path would be theft, but that is clearly what it is, and is not generally tolerated.

On the other hand, in business, you can run rampant over others and call it "just business" or capitalism, and the like.

Certainly there may well be a greater number of honest corporate leaders than there are dishonest, I don't know. I simply believe that the bigger a company gets, the more likely that greed is the underlying motive and dishonest, or at least unethical behavior is occuring somewhere in upper management.

I'm just saying that business is the tool of choice for the greedy. Certainly it's not a matter of business being the tool of the greedy, but of the greedy using the tool to their ends.

Votes + Comments
Good argument
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Is it very honest to tell kids that there is a Santa Claus? Parental Units are missing from the poll.

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In general, (as we are using the term here) a lie is that which, in the telling, benefits someone at someone elses expense. Most of us want to know that what we are hearing is the truth, and are dismayed to find we were lied to, because we suffered or are suffering a palpable loss due to it.

You would equate the Santa lie with the WMD lie? With lies that lead to the ravaging of people and the planet? With lies that lead to, perhaps, the destruction of all life as we know it? You would put the Santa Clause lie on a level with that?

Votes + Comments
Nice post..
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The somewhat pagan "Santa lie" perpetrated by parents, books, TV and other media tells the kids that it is alright to lie. These children may crow up to become leaders or politicians still coming up with similar lies to suit their purpose.

Farfetched? Maybe not?

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The Santa lie teaches children that it's alright to lie?

Probably not. I think that the ones who end up lying were going to anyway.

There is not an adult capable of running fo politial office who does not understand the difference between the Santa lie and the "bigger" ones.

The child benefits from the Santa lie as it is perpetrated on him. He loses something when he finds out the truth. But when his sibling or classmate takes his toy and lies about it, he loses something. He gains it back when the truth comes to light. No child capable of rudimentary reasoning can't see the difference.

The fundamental difference between the liars and the truthful, is that the truthful "feel" the pain of lies and wish not to perpetrate that pain upon others, while liars put their wishes first.

Kids learn to lie LONG before they know about Santa one way or the other.

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I have always enjoyed how Santa is spelled almost the same way as Satan.

Do you particularly have something against Santa? Do you see Santa as a form of Satan? Where exactly does your ejoyment of the similarity lie? In what way does it tickle your fancy? What connections does it cause for you?

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