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Wow i don't post for a day and everything goes crazy.....

Like i said originally about the dinosaurs its not just the bible that we find these references(although thankyou christina for that Job one)

As for the Flood this is another thing that is not just an idea in the bible infact there are many religions and cultures who tell the story of the great flood. Plus things like soil layering, fossil and other geological structures can be caused by a great flood and instead of taking millions/billions of years these things can be done in a reasonably short period of time.

I think Job was written after the flood however i do not think the bible is never really clear about when these events took place.I will have to go back to Job and have a look at this. Most of the dating etc. comes from people trying to work out the dates from the information given.

Thankyou also for the links you gave a couple of pages back josh on dating methods i will go through them when i get time.

I think you are getting mixed up with some of the things that i am saying however which is probably my fault im not the best at typing out what im thinking clearly. When i say i do not think there is enough evidence for the earth to be 4.5 billions years old im not trying to say that is wrong and the religious look on things is right. infact i feel that there is not enough evidence for the oposite argument either.
The way that i see it though is that unless we have a test over a long period of time for the tests themself like a couple of millenia then it is hard to tell how accurate these methods really are.

christina>you commented: i think you make good points - Christina +4
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Was Job not supposedly written after the great flood?

Yes, it was quite a while after the flood.

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...your going to class at 6:00? I thought you were still in hs

At church... it's a Christian Development class. I learn a lot.

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Most of the stuff that was talked about in that article aren't exactly true.. for example, the earth's magnetic field is very inconstant.. it has even changed polarity several times in the past... Which may account for these inaccurate calculations.

How were they not true? - Have you researched everything I said?

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How is it biased?
I'm sorry if you feel like I'm hurting your beliefs, but I found that from a non-Christian website. Or at least I think it wasn't.

hah.. don't worry you aren't hurting anyone's beliefs.. I just thought it was rather funny that you said it was not biased.. it's from a creationist website! allaboutcreation.org - I'm quite sure their information is biased.

But I will admit that I have seen stuff on the web about this theory of man and dinosaurs coexisting.. I have seriously never heard of this theory be4, so I am researching it a bit.. But like I said be4, I have yet to come across a scientific explanation for the coexistence of men and dinosaurs.

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Yes, it was quite a while after the flood.

...and Job discusses dinosaurs? how is this possible?

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hah.. don't worry you aren't hurting anyone's beliefs.. I just thought it was rather funny that you said it was not biased.. it's from a creationist website! allaboutcreation.org - I'm quite sure their information is biased.

But I will admit that I have seen stuff on the web about this theory of man and dinosaurs coexisting.. I have seriously never heard of this theory be4, so I am researching it a bit.. But like I said be4, I have yet to come across a scientific explanation for the coexistence of men and dinosaurs.

Oh, creationism. I see.

Yeah, I'm just saying. There are scientists out there that do agree with the theory of a "Young Earth." I will also be researching it more. But I just think there comes a time when science will not always be able to answer every question that one has. We just have to come to our own conclusions. And for me, I have something to go to... and I won't have to do that.

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hah.. don't worry you aren't hurting anyone's beliefs.. I just thought it was rather funny that you said it was not biased.. it's from a creationist website! allaboutcreation.org - I'm quite sure their information is biased.

But I will admit that I have seen stuff on the web about this theory of man and dinosaurs coexisting.. I have seriously never heard of this theory be4, so I am researching it a bit.. But like I said be4, I have yet to come across a scientific explanation for the coexistence of men and dinosaurs.

i did a /find on the website and the words god and bible didn't show up in the entire article... sooo i'm not sure what you mean by biased. Just because a group finds reasoning to backup their beliefs does not mean they are being biased in their research... =\

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Oh, creationism. I see.

Yeah, I'm just saying. There are scientists out there that do agree with the theory of a "Young Earth." I will also be researching it more. But I just think there comes a time when science will not always be able to answer every question that one has. We just have to come to our own conclusions. And for me, I have something to go to... and I won't have to do that.

What scientists agree with the theory of a "Young Earth"?

Why can you not believe that dinosaurs went extinct 65 million years ago AND the teachings of jesus or w/e you believe? Christianity does not conflict much with the scientific idea that dinosaurs died out before humanity.

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...and Job discusses dinosaurs? how is this possible?

Job 40:15-24 says this:
15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17He moveth his tail like a cedar tree: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

The basic thing is where Job says this animal moves his tail like a cedar tree. And as we all know, cedar trees are very large. What land creatures do we know of today that have tails the size of a cedar tree? And like I've said, a lot of Biblical commentaries will say it is describing an elephant or a hippo... but of course we know that they do not have tails that large.

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i did a /find on the website and the words god and bible didn't show up in the entire article... sooo i'm not sure what you mean by biased. Just because a group finds reasoning to backup their beliefs does not mean they are being biased in their research... =\

They are creationists! Of course they will write about dinos and men living together.. It's what they believe. There's a difference between actually researching something and trying to come up with as much evidence as you can to back something that you personally believe in. Show me an article of a neutral person doing a report of creationism..

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Job 40:15-24 says this:
15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17He moveth his tail like a cedar tree: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

The basic thing is where Job says this animal moves his tail like a cedar tree. And as we all know, cedar trees are very large. What land creatures do we know of today that have tails the size of a cedar tree? And like I've said, a lot of Biblical commentaries will say it is describing an elephant or a hippo... but of course we know that they do not have tails that large.

...but

And besides, what would wipe out all the dinosaurs and leave the humans alive?

The flood described in Genesis.

Yes, it [Job] was quite a while after the flood.

How could Job see the dinosaurs if they all died during the great flood..

And how do you know that the bible isn't over exaggerating? Or that the cedar tree was small?

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Just because the fossils that are found show that dinosaurs exsisted 65 million years ago does not mean that they died out that long ago infact there probably would not be any fossil evidence that dinosaurs did exist within the time of the bible simply because of the time it takes for a fossil to form. As well as from all texts about dinosaurs/dragons they seem to have been a rare sight so whats to say that these particular dinosaurs did not die out in the timespan of the old testament. It does not nessicarily mean that every spiecies of dinosaur that we know about it existed then it could even be just 1 or 2

commented: good posts -duki +1
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...but


How could Job see the dinosaurs if they all died during the great flood..

And how do you know that the bible isn't over exaggerating? Or that the cedar tree was small?

They may not have all died in the flood God said 2 of every kind of creature that walks the earth which i would assume means any sort of dinosaur that still existed at that stage and for all we know that could have only been one or 2 kinds

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They may not have all died in the flood God said 2 of every kind of creature that walks the earth which i would assume means any sort of dinosaur that still existed at that stage and for all we know that could have only been one or 2 kinds

yea, but christina just said that the dinosaurs did not accompany Noah onto the ark.

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How could Job see the dinosaurs if they all died during the great flood..

Like I said, Noah took certain types of species upon the ark... he only took the ones that God told him to. That doesn't mean that ALL of them died in the flood. I personally think that they just became extinct after several years.

And how do you know that the bible isn't over exaggerating? Or that the cedar tree was small?


Psalms 92:12
The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree: he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon (would this verse make much sense if it were referring to a small or medium sized tree?)

Isaiah 2:13
And upon all the cedars of Lebanon, [that are] high and lifted up, and upon all the oaks of Bashan,

Isaiah 37:24

By thy servants hast thou reproached the Lord, and hast said, By the multitude of my chariots am I come up to the height of the mountains, to the sides of Lebanon; and I will cut down the tall cedars.

Ezekiel 17:22
Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will also take of the highest branch of the high cedar, and will set [it]; I will crop off the top of his young twigs a tender one, and will plant [it] upon a high mountain and eminent;

Ezekiel 31:3
Behold, the Assyrian [was] a cedar in Lebanon with fair branches, and with a shadowing shroud, and of a high stature; and his top was among the thick boughs.

Amos 2:9
Yet destroyed I the Amorite before them, whose height [was] like the height of the cedars, and he [was] strong as the oaks; yet I destroyed his fruit from above, and his roots from beneath.

There is no question that the authors of the Bible considered cedar trees to be quite large. Some Christians who've tried to compromise with evolutionists have claimed that the verses describing Behemoth are describing a crocodile, hippopotamus or elephant. But those creatures don't have tails the size of a cedar tree. The only creatures known to us today that had tails as big as a cedar tree were the largest of the known dinosaurs.

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None of these sites are going to be 100% unbiased even the ones that you have given us arguing about old earth theories. The idea is to look at the evidence presented by both sides and then decide not just dismiss everything going against what you think as biased

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yea, but christina just said that the dinosaurs did not accompany Noah onto the ark.

I didn't say that. I said God appointed Noah to take certain species, we don't know which ones. But I was replying to your post which said he took 2 of every kind. Which he didn't.

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And how do you know that the bible isn't over exaggerating? Or that the cedar tree was small?

How many animals can you think of that have a tail that even comes close to the size of a Cedar tree

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There is no question that the authors of the Bible considered cedar trees to be quite large. Some Christians who've tried to compromise with evolutionists have claimed that the verses describing Behemoth are describing a crocodile, hippopotamus or elephant. But those creatures don't have tails the size of a cedar tree. The only creatures known to us today that had tails as big as a cedar tree were the largest of the known dinosaurs.

You keep referring to this section in the Bible.. but the fact of the matter is, you don't know what Job was talking about. You can infer, but you have absolutely NO evidence... even the passage from Job may not be accurate, how would you know?

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I didn't say that. I said God appointed Noah to take certain species, we don't know which ones. But I was replying to your post which said he took 2 of every kind. Which he didn't.

19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them." Genesis 6:19-21

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How many animals can you think of that have a tail that even comes close to the size of a tree

You are only inferring, but how do you know it was a dinosaur? You don't. You don't even know if Job really saw an animal. Something isn't fact just b/c the bible says so.

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You keep referring to this section in the Bible.. but the fact of the matter is, you don't know what Job was talking about. You can infer, but you have absolutely NO evidence... even the passage from Job may not be accurate, how would you know?

read my research paper again... it thoroghly annalizes the validity and accuracy of the Bible. Why do you need proof so much?

It reminds me of the kid in that move The Santa Clause. "Have you ever seen $1 million face to face? Does that mean it doesn't exist?"

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You keep referring to this section in the Bible.. but the fact of the matter is, you don't know what Job was talking about. You can infer, but you have absolutely NO evidence... even the passage from Job may not be accurate, how would you know?

On its own this does not provide much insight however if you look at other historical texts you hear about things very similar to this and described in many various ways.

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19 You are to bring into the ark two of all living creatures, male and female, to keep them alive with you. 20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive. 21 You are to take every kind of food that is to be eaten and store it away as food for you and for them." Genesis 6:19-21

Hmm.. there was something I heard or read that said not all of them were taken into the ark. Scratch that. =/ I'll have to read it again.

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You keep referring to this section in the Bible.. but the fact of the matter is, you don't know what Job was talking about. You can infer, but you have absolutely NO evidence... even the passage from Job may not be accurate, how would you know?

History and archaeology backs it up.

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