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Ok, This is my opinion on religion, mostly Christianity because i know little about any other.

There is no such things as god! There I said it. Its like believing in the Easter bunny.

The bible is a fictitious tale with good intention. The things talked about cannot happen and if it can then why dont it now.

I believe in fact and science (not scientology :) ).

The purpose of the bible is to instil good morals on children and men by giving them stories with lessons to learn at the end. I believe that this can be done without the preachy word of the bible.

I believe in being kind to everyone and sharing wealth and love throughout the world, but I don’t need the threats of going to hell to make me like that.

The universe and all it beauty was formed because it had to be. Not by a being, not by god, but by the vibrations of energy and the infinite ways in which this energy can act and react.
Religion was good when it was needed by a more primitive man to explain things that he couldn’t but all this causes is war because of the im right your not mentality of the common religious fanatic.

Ahhhhhh that feels good ;)

Okay dude. Majestic might have gone easy on you, but I will not because you have insulted me and the people who follow Christianity.

First off, how dare you belittle Christian beliefs to the likeness of "believing in the Easter Bunny"? What kind of fool says things like that? (besides Jbennet of course).

People who "believe" in the easter bunny, and by extension Santa Claus, are normally either small children or adults who don't actually believe in those things but speak of them for the sake of their children. People with full thinking capacity (and I'm not belittling anyone, just excluding small children) don't actually believe in Santa or the Easter Bunny. You know this!

So what are you getting at?

Next to your little rant about the point of the Bible: simply wrong. The Bible wasn't intended for moral value. In fact, I could tell you that there are occurrences where there are some things that we would pretty much call immoral going on. The Bible does not bother to shed light on what men think is satisfactory behavior, but focuses a great deal on what *God* thinks is satisfactory behavior, and it isn't always what we would consider to be "moral".

So again, what are you getting at?

Thirdly, the Bible doesn't threaten to send you to hell so that you may "spread wealth and love". Christianity isn't just about spreading wealth and love. The promise that the wicked will be damned for eternity is not a "threat" from God, or the Bible. It's more of a reality that He has, in His wisdom, vastly averted (but not totally, because of man's free will). You see, the Bible teaches that we are all wicked by nature and it is manifest in our daily sins. But the same Bible also teaches that we are saved from our wickedness by Christ. What I'm saying is, the Bible doesn't actually threaten anything. It just says would have been in store for all man had it not been for Christ. It then follows that a major part of the Bible (ergo, the Gospel), is not about the damnation of the wicked, but the salvation of the righteous.

What things do you believe cannot happen in the Bible? The idea that somewhat cannot believe in God, His Word, and the Bible amazes me as much as the idea that someone can does most atheists.

The reason why the "things" you call for don't happen now is that God does not need to prove himself to men who don't believe him. (beware: this is my personal viewpoint and may not be widely accepted. Some may argue about the teachings of the fate of the bad Pharaoh, but I believe that He wasn't proving himself to the Pharaoh, but showing those that worshiped Him just who powerful He was so that they would continue to do so in future generations.) Why must He deviate from His divine plan just to "prove" something to a man that has hardened his heart against Him. Even as I say this, God does reveal Himself to those who would rather not see Him in different ways.

Alas, you will all see the "proof" you all seek one day when Jesus Christ descends from the sky.

Finally, why is it so much easier to believe that the Universe exploded into being on some random event, into such beauty, order, and coherent life, than it is to believe that it was created by the Divine. Because some scientist said so? If you think that makes any more sense than Creationism then.....

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Okay dude. Majestic might have gone easy on you, but I will not because you have insulted me and the people who follow Christianity.

First off, how dare you belittle Christian beliefs to the likeness of "believing in the Easter Bunny"? What kind of fool says things like that? (besides Jbennet of course).

And yet you belittle him for NOT having those beliefs and call him a fool. See any problem there?

People who "believe" in the easter bunny, and by extension Santa Claus, are normally either small children or adults who don't actually believe in those things but speak of them for the sake of their children. People with full thinking capacity (and I'm not belittling anyone, just excluding small children) don't actually believe in Santa or the Easter Bunny. You know this!

So what are you getting at?

It would seem pretty obvious to me - he doesn't see how anyone with "full thinking capacity" could believe the teachings of Christianity either. Nor do I for that matter. I just can't understand it myself.

Next to your little rant about the point of the Bible: simply wrong. The Bible wasn't intended for moral value. In fact, I could tell you that there are occurrences where there are some things that we would pretty much call immoral going on. The Bible does not bother to shed light on what men think is satisfactory behavior, but focuses a great deal on what *God* thinks is satisfactory behavior, and it isn't always what we would consider to be "moral".

So again, what are you getting at?

Thirdly, the Bible doesn't threaten to send you to hell so that you may "spread wealth and love". Christianity isn't just about spreading wealth and love. The promise that the wicked will be damned for eternity is not a "threat" from God, or the Bible. It's more of a reality that He has, in His wisdom, vastly averted (but not totally, because of man's free will). You see, the Bible teaches that we are all wicked by nature and it is manifest in our daily sins. But the same Bible also teaches that we are saved from our wickedness by Christ. What I'm saying is, the Bible doesn't actually threaten anything. It just says would have been in store for all man had it not been for Christ. It then follows that a major part of the Bible (ergo, the Gospel), is not about the damnation of the wicked, but the salvation of the righteous.

Or then again maybe it's the collected writings of a bunch of delusional or manipulative folks co-opted into a belief system to pacify, conform, and control the masses.

What things do you believe cannot happen in the Bible? The idea that somewhat cannot believe in God, His Word, and the Bible amazes me as much as the idea that someone can does most atheists.

At least we agree on the mutual amazement here. I don't see how you can swallow it.

The reason why the "things" you call for don't happen now is that God does not need to prove himself to men who don't believe him. (beware: this is my personal viewpoint and may not be widely accepted. Some may argue about the teachings of the fate of the bad Pharaoh, but I believe that He wasn't proving himself to the Pharaoh, but showing those that worshiped Him just who powerful He was so that they would continue to do so in future generations.) Why must He deviate from His divine plan just to "prove" something to a man that has hardened his heart against Him. Even as I say this, God does reveal Himself to those who would rather not see Him in different ways.

I would seriously question what is considered "revealing" here.

Alas, you will all see the "proof" you all seek one day when Jesus Christ descends from the sky.

Perhaps, though I wouldn't hold your breath. If such a thing occurred then it would merit consideration based upon the evidence at hand. Until such a time it bears little more weight than a fable.

Finally, why is it so much easier to believe that the Universe exploded into being on some random event, into such beauty, order, and coherent life, than it is to believe that it was created by the Divine. Because some scientist said so? If you think that makes any more sense than Creationism then.....

Well, a lot of scientists if you want to really get picky and they don't espouse that things just "popped into being like they are now". You're forgetting the billions of years of incremental change part, which really is kind of an important part. It holds a little more weight than a few 2000-year-old writings that have absolutely no evidence in their favor which claim that God just "poofed" it into being himself over the course of a week.

Believe it all if you wish, it's certainly your right, but many of us will still hold to our own right to think it's a lot of nonsense and we wish you would keep it to yourselves a little more and keep it out of the laws and basis for wars.

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You took the words right out of my mouth ezzaral.

Sounds to me like Mr. Scru here can speak more contradiction and speculation then he can forward and fact.

I do not push my views, I speak my beliefs. These are my opinions mr. angry scru, I didnt say they had to be yours.

And btw I do think god is like santa, fictitious!

These are my opinions and only mine therefore you can have yours and express yours, but dont get enraged and make yourself look stupid.

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Can an atheist argue without suggesting that the one who challenges is stupid? The world may never know.

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Furthermore Steve. I'm not angry, I don't know how you could have jumped top that conclusion. I speak contradiction a speculation? Where? Go ahead and point it out. All I did was debunk a little bit of your speculation, but whatever.

And to say that anyone is forcing their beliefs down your throat is really exaggerating things here. Am I supposed to sit here and be offended by you and what you say about me and other Christians and our beliefs without any form of protest in order for you to be satisfied that I'm not doing so? Defending my beliefs and shoving them down your throat are two different things. Perhaps I should start doing the latter.

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Can an atheist argue without suggesting that the one who challenges is stupid? The world may never know.

Can a believer? Your post was little different in that respect.

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Furthermore Steve. I'm not angry, I don't know how you could have jumped top that conclusion. I speak contradiction a speculation? Where? Go ahead and point it out. All I did was debunk a little bit of your speculation, but whatever.

The two positions are inherently contradictions and see the other as speculation. The atheistic viewpoint sees your "debunk" as "bunk". Posts here are not going to resolve that.

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Unless you are referring to the part about "what kind of fool says things like that", I really don't see how you can say I belittled anyone. Furthermore, that was nothing more than an allusion to my comments about taking Josh's place (Josh called people fools simply because he disagreed with them) -- I don't actually think Steve is a fool, Ezzaral. I think he's disrespectful.

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And to say that anyone is forcing their beliefs down your throat is really exaggerating things here. Am I supposed to sit here and be offended by you and what you say about me and other Christians and our beliefs without any form of protest in order for you to be satisfied that I'm not doing so?

If you are certain in your beliefs how can they need defending? Defending from what? We can't take them away from you - we can only choose to not believe them ourselves.

Defending my beliefs and shoving them down your throat are two different things. Perhaps I should start doing the latter.

Then you would certainly find plenty of company throughout history in doing so. Lacking logic to convince, violent force has always sufficed.

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Unless you are referring to the part about "what kind of fool says things like that", I really don't see how you can say I belittled anyone. Furthermore, that was nothing more than an allusion to my comments about taking Josh's place (Josh called people fools simply because he disagreed with them) -- I don't actually think Steve is a fool, Ezzaral. I think he's disrespectful.

Asking "what kind of fool says things like that" after he did so is directly calling him a fool. An unintended consequence of the choice of words perhaps, but that is exactly the result.

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Sure, you can't take them away from us. But that was never the issue. What you can do is get extremely disrespectful to us, as human beings, and our intelligence. Again, I ask, am I supposed to take offense from anyone without a word in my defense?

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Well, I don't think anyone has actually been acting crazy on this thread, but I digress.

Back to gaming...

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I think the important thing to remember is that an individuals' beliefs are his/hers to do with what (s)he wants so long as it doesnt interfere with other peoples' beliefs. This of course is an ideal, perhaps not the reality. But I wouldn't dream of trying to take a persons belief from them and would expect others to treat me the same. I think there has been a misunderstanding here as it is my impression that nobody meant to offend anyone else in here.

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Sure, you can't take them away from us. But that was never the issue. What you can do is get extremely disrespectful to us, as human beings, and our intelligence. Again, I ask, am I supposed to take offense from anyone without a word in my defense?

I guess that comes down to your notions of "supposed to", doesn't it? You were certainly disrespectful in your rebuff to Steve and yet you have expectations of respect in turn? The entire thing is a draw.

Words here are merely words and any offense is harmless beyond a perceived slight. From my point of view, the real offense of religion is seeing laws and wars made and supported for reasons that non-believers cannot see any possible basis for in reality. The utter illogic of that is nothing short of maddening and defies any rational comprehension.

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I think the important thing to remember is that an individuals' beliefs are his/hers to do with what (s)he wants so long as it doesnt interfere with other peoples' beliefs. This of course is an ideal, perhaps not the reality.

Yes, exactly, and therein lies the problem. It is not the reality, nor will it be for the foreseeable future.

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Well, Im glad ezzaral and majestic are here because i couldnt have said it better myself, and i mean that I really couldnt.

The words spoken with true intellect of a view exactly my own in a way that I have not the patience nor the vocabulary to produce.

I have made exactly the point I set out to make by producing my opinion of "God(s)" in the thread. The point in question:
Religion causes confrontation and negativity.

I made sure that in my very first post I stated "My opinion" But still scru decided he was offended by that, and im sure many other reader felt the same as him. Am I mistaken that christiantity is not ment for the betterment of man by producing a kindess toward man because thats what i was taught. I was braught up a salvation army but not stricktly. I went to church when i was young as well as sunday school. Is salvation army not christianity because i sure thought it was and thats what they believe.

thats all folks!!!!

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I like how you picked up this "I'm the victim" act.
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The idea that somewhat cannot believe in God, His Word, and the Bible amazes me as much as the idea that someone can does most atheists.

In making this statement you have completely disregarded the fact that other religions other than yours also exist. It is like saying that my religion is correct and yours is wrong. It might have been a slip of tounge or something else but it dosn't sound right to people belonging to other religions like me.

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>It is like saying that my religion is correct and yours is wrong.
If you believe in one religion, and I mean really believe, you usually can't believe in another without betraying your belief[1]. That kind of mutual exclusivity suggests that only one religion can be right. Sitting on the fence is for those who don't really believe and those who are simply trying to be tactful.

[1] Example: Christianity's very first commandment is "Do not have any other gods before me".

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^ In that case it would be better not to say it out loud. One cannot dismiss the fact that many religions exist in the world. If two people of different religions with that mentality meet, they would end up fighting as it would be hard to find common ground.

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Hammerhead, I'm not dismissing the fact that there are other religions. I just don't believe in them.

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that is perfectly fine
same
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Hammerhead, I'm not dismissing the fact that there are other religions. I just don't believe in them.

Why would you say something so disrespectful?
...
:-/

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you seem rather confrontational today my friend
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She donates half her meager pension to these TVangelists. She believes that she will get a spot in Heaven that way. It's her belief, and I am not going to argue with her.

reminds me of a song i can play

Spineless from the start, sucked into the part
circus comes to town, you play the lead clown

Please, please spreading his disease, living by his story
Knees, knees falling to your knees, suffer for his glory

Time for lust, time for lie
time to kiss your life goodbye
Send me money, send me green

Heaven you will meet
Make a contribution and you'll get a better seat

Bow to the Leper Messiah

Marvel at his tricks, need your Sunday fix - blind devotion came, rotting your brain
Chain, chain, join the endless chain, taken by his glamour
Fame, Fame, Infection is the game, stinking drunk with power

Witchery, weakening
Sees the sheep gathering
set the trap, hypnotize
now you follow!

Lie. Lie. Lie. Lie

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I have an aunt that religiously watches the many church channels on American TV. She donates half her meager pension to these TVangelists. She believes that she will get a spot in Heaven that way. It's her belief, and I am not going to argue with her.

Maybe your aunt isn't that far out in right field. US Televangelist Benny Hinn bases his ministry on Faith Healing. You can watch his show on TV, where he will bring out a cripple on crutches, put his hands on top of the wretched person's head, utter a short prayer and the person will throw away the crutches and dance with joy! Pastor Hinn raises at least 100 million Dollars a year from taxexempt donations. It's all too real, I have watched it!

Last year he has been able to install an all Italian marble bathroom next to his private office that costs $24,000. Now that is success and obviously has God's blessing.

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Ya, there you go thats a good way to heal people, buy a 24,000 dollar washroom.

That makes me sick. Pure F$%%in greed.

If he is good and caring and he really wants to heal people then maybe he should try spending that rediculous amount of wasted money on the hungry or dying.

True success to person of actual caring is the reward of seeing the people they help be happy. Not a marble washroom.

REDICULOUS!!!!!!!

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I have not the patience to correct my typing. I know how to spell quite well, although if i stop to correct for my mindless finger i will lose my train of thought.

But im glad you agree with something i say. ;)

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We haven't had one of those in quite awhile. Since about when christina stopped posting.
But now that she is back we are guaranteed one. ;)

Well I don't know about all this, but I'm not trying to make another "God thread," and I don't intend to either.
I was just stating my passions in life.

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dont take it on.
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After all this 'Godly' talk, I have to restate my passion a little. I intend to live life to its fullest. Heaven and Hell are all part of being alive, when you die then the curtain closes, the lights go out, and so do your senses. It's going to be just a peaceful dark, no Heaven and no Hell.

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