Debate me[ about the bible ] - Page 4

[WaltP]

It's just the same old tired "It's crap", "God loves us all", "Allah [PBUH] is the one true God", interspersed with the odd bit of interesting observation. This however blends into the background after about 90 replies.

I say believe if you believe, don't if you don't. If you're not sure, why the hell not believe? Edge your bets, go to Church, sing your hymns, say your prayers before bedtime. Will it stop you getting a terminal illness, or stop your girlfriend from leaving you? Probably not, but at least you'll still have that superior feeling that comes with being part of a special gang. There's nothing like looking down your nose at people is there?

Yeah, I'm done, too. I was hoping to continue with a discussion of ideas but every time the Bible-thumpers show up it always degenerates into "it's true because I know it's true. Just look at a snowflake to see the the truth. Why do you hate me?"

[vegaseat]

"If you have a particular faith or religion, that is good. But you can survive without it."
-- Dalai Lama

[Eburner]

If you mean live, yes, you can live without it, but after you die, it will make all the difference as far as where you will be for eternity. If Jesus is not your Lord and Savior when you die, your eternity will be in the lake of fire. Revelation 20:10-15 makes this truth clear, and John 3:16 is why Jesus came and died; for our sin. He is the payment for our sin, so we can be the righteousness of God through Him, and spend eternity in the presence of God. The choice is yours; life or death, blessing or cursing; just as Moses told the children of Israel in Deuteronomy 30:19-20. Your life on earth can also be blessed with prosperity and peace as well. That choice is still available today, for every person to make. Your eternal destiny depends on that choice!

[Eburner]

Hey WaltP, sorry you feel the way you do about Christianity. The bible isn't true because I said it is; but it is true because God said it is, and one day you will see that it is truth. Personally, I reject Islam, because it goes against what the bible teaches. I can have a discussion with anyone, but I have accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior, and simply present what the bible says about being saved. No force, no pressure, the choice is yours. I don't look down on anyone, and I am not better than anyone; just born again and forgiven of my sin. That is the truth that I present to you, and am willing and available to discuss anything about the bible you wish.

[Agilemind]

@Eburner

If God exists because the Bible says so and the Bible is true because God says so then either both God exists and the Bible is true or God does not exist and the Bible is not true. That is simple logic. You need external evidence to support that the Bible is true down to the details or external evidence that God exists. There is no external evidence that God exists and science has proven that parts of the Bible are not true. Thus God does not exist.

You are not presenting "truth" just your opinion. By claiming it is "truth" you a misleading/lying to other people and tricking them into agreeing with you.

Besides the afterlife I would most like is reincarnation, who wants to hang out with a pompous egomaniac narcissist for eternity?

[Klozov]

Did not God also inspire you to start this thread? Or me to write this question, go to the bathroom 10 minutes ago, scratch that itch on my neck just now, swat & squish that pregnant disease carrying fly yesterday? Or Mr. Laden to cleanse what he believed to be a little evil from the earth for that matter? It's nice being able to live & act in a world where you can creatively interpret whatever level of accountability you wish for if not in your own mind in the mind of whoever wrote something you read & choose to believe in. I tend to believe that, for whatever reason, creation/evolution/whatever, we all have brains which like guns, the use of which is uniquely our own to bear responsibility for. Think - believe what you want, it's your gun. But don't expect anyone else to credit or blame anyone but yourself for it's concealment - display, refrain - or use. Think responsibly or believe in magic if it floats your boat. Just remember that just because you can get a lot of people to chant the same psalm doesn't make you or anything you've all learn to chant true. Aside from that try hard to keep theology &/or missionary work out of the IT Dept., this forum, or anywhere else where no one is asking for it.

I love religion. Repent and you'll go to heaven. Who wants to go to heaven? It's gonna be full of those self-righteous Ned Flanders type gits. The ones we all hated when they were alive. They'll be preaching scripture, chapter and verse all day long, like those guys on this thread. Deuterium 2:1, Tritium 3:1 and all that twaddle.

Hell, however seems like a far more interesting prospect. They'll have atheists, prostitutes, ravers, hard-boiled drinkers...

I will NEVER turn to religion, because I don't want to go to Heaven. If God does exist, I'm gonna annoy him on purpose by not believing in him, so I can go to Hell.

Party on :)

[M1n1m@l1$t]

god and the bible were just created by some other crazy people to get more people crazy to make more people think that the crazy people are not crazy etc. also i totally agree with whoever said about the software agreement that is totally true. :D

[Eburner]

Once again, the most solid proof of God's existence is right under your feet, and before your eyes daily. The earth, sun, moon, and stars, along with plants, animals, and people, all prove God is alive. Science has not disproven anything about God, only caused confusion about what it cannot explain. Another solid proof, and there are many, is Israel becoming a nation again, which God said through the prophets thousands of years ago. You can use your logic and reasoning to deceive you if you want, but in the end it will all be clear. The danger will be if you are an unbeliever when you die. Heaven or hell, your choice, but after death you won't be able to change your mind.

[Dingbats]

Has the OP considered agnosticism? Or theism for another?

Wiki explains this well - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theism

the most solid proof of God's existence is right under your feet, and before your eyes daily. The earth, sun, moon, and stars, along with plants, animals, and people, all prove God is alive

No it doesn't. The fact that something material exists DOES NOT prove God's existence. It is your INTERPRETATION as you cannot comprehend or do not want to accept the scientific explanations or theories.

In the end, all interpretations are just models, be they scientific or religious. People just need to choose the most plausible ones. If you think a conscious entity created everything, fine (but keep away from my kids!). If not, fine. But don't go on about 'existence of a star', etc as being proof of a divine being. It most certainly is not.

Atheists do not need to prove that God does not exist, which is impossible. Theists however do need to demonstrate evidence to back up their position. If it is the truth, the evidence must exist somewhere. And I mean real evidence that can stand up to rigorous scrutiny and is not ephemeral.

[jon.kiparsky]

after death you won't be able to change your mind

Even a stopped clock is right twice a day, and I have to admit that this is actually true. Not in the sense that was meant, of course, but it's true that after death you won't be able to change your mind. Nor hope, fear, wish, regret, or do anything else that requires a mind, because you'll be dead and your mind will have ceased along with your brain activity...

[GrimJack]

Once again, the most solid proof of God's existence is right under your feet, and before your eyes daily. The earth, sun, moon, and stars, along with plants, animals, and people, all prove God is alive. Science has not disproven anything about God, only caused confusion about what it cannot explain. Another solid proof, and there are many, is Israel becoming a nation again, which God said through the prophets thousands of years ago. You can use your logic and reasoning to deceive you if you want, but in the end it will all be clear. The danger will be if you are an unbeliever when you die. Heaven or hell, your choice, but after death you won't be able to change your mind.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof - there is no need to prove there is no god and, using the 'double negative' rule, there is a need to prove there is a god.

Using Occam's Razor we end up with no need to posit a god to explain the universe. Threatening non-believers with damnation is not a very good argument for the existence of god.

[cosmoss]

There is a philosopher of 16th century named Espinoza. He is like the founder of Atheism. If you read that guy, you will feel relieved.
But religion is fun. you should be a religious atheist. who contradicts himself before the religion does. Nonetheless, you won't find answers about the meaning of life regardless of what you believe. just read Alan Cohen. Believe something positive and try to live happy with maintaining a high spirit. That's it.

Has a Guinness, got bit between the teeth...

The earth, sun, moon, and stars, along with plants, animals, and people, all prove God is alive.

OK, dealt with that one already.

Science has not disproven anything about God, only caused confusion about what it cannot explain.

Science can't disprove anything about God. If it doesn't exist (or there is such a lack of evidence for its existence), how can science disprove anything about this God? From a scientific standpoint, it's an irrelevance. Not worth seriously pursuing.

Science causes confusion about what it can't explain? That's bad? On the contrary, it drives humans to even greater feats of greatness and imagination (yes, imagination) to try and glean some understanding of the phenomenon. OK, many ideas will fall by the wayside as peers shoot down the fledgling or long-standing hypotheses. That's progress. Science is relentless.

Another solid proof, and there are many, is Israel becoming a nation again, which God said through the prophets thousands of years ago.

Don't you think that the prophets thought that this would be sooner rather than later? Been a long time coming. Perhaps it had to happen at some point, by the laws of probability. No coincidence that people called the new nation Israel then? No significance attached to it? Not a prophecy that became true by design?

You can use your logic and reasoning to deceive you if you want, but in the end it will all be clear.

So, by this token, if atheists are logical and rational, theists are illogical and irrational. Yep, seems about right to me. Still 'clear' as mud though.

The danger will be if you are an unbeliever when you die. Heaven or hell, your choice, but after death you won't be able to change your mind.

From this are we to understand that unbelievers will have no choice after they die, but theists will? Do we also take it that, as unbelievers, we have a 'choice' as you suggest? If so, why all the fuss about believing in the first place? I choose HELL. Okay? I'll even carry a card, saying,

"On my death, I wish that any surviving part of my consciousness be taken away to Hell."

The problem with 'Religion' is that those who try to justify it end up in a circular paradox.

People who tend to give religion a bad name tend to be the Bible Bashers who mindlessly follow some passages by rote without proper thought. The scary thing is this type of cult brainwashing is becoming highly popularized in modern day society.

I guess this is what unites, for example, the Catholic Church and creates a strong following. The slightly more secular believers... i.e those who believe in good ethics and morality but question some passages probably represent what the TRUE ideals of religion should be about.

Now these brain-washed idiots will probably carry on preaching their crap until they are find themselves in a REAL life situation where they have to question the fundamental concepts of their beliefs.

This is where the beauty of being self aware comes into play. We have the ability to question and make decisions. We don't have to follow everything by rote. The people who view the Bible as a hard set of rules are delusional.

There's a passage somewhere that reads roughly: "He who listens but does not hear."

...Could mean one of two things. Take the Bible literally, or don't take the Bible literally. The Bible bashers tend to support the first clause. And it is these idiots who beat their chests and shout, 'The Bible says the World is going to end ____?'

OK... so what if it does end on _____. But you've just spent all that time telling everyone the world is going to end _____ when you should have been living your life.