Collins: Why this scientist believes in God - Page 13

[joshSCH]

Yeah, I better go to sleep soon too... but I'd like to say this one last thing....

Did you know that there were a lot of famous scientists that believed in God...? such as:

Johannes Kepler,
Galileo Galilei,
Gregor Mendel,
Albert Einstein (although he never came to belief in a personal God), he still recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe. The Encyclopedia Britannica says of him: "Firmly denying atheism, Einstein expressed a belief in "Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of what exists." This actually motivated his interest in science, as he once said as a young physicist: "I want to know how God created this world, I am not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Einstein's famous epithet on the "uncertainty principle" was "God does not play dice" - and to him this was a real statement about a God in whom he believed. A famous saying of his was, "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Isaac Newton was a genius, everyone knows that... but what was less known was the fact that he was devoutly religious and saw numbers as involved in understanding God's plan for history from the Bible. He did a considerable work on biblical numerology, and, though aspects of his beliefs were not orthodox, he thought theology was very important. In his system of physics, God is essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. In Principia he stated, "The most beautiful system of the sun, planets, and comets, could only proceed from the counsel and dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being."

sorry, I am having some very strange problems: http://www.daniweb.com/techtalkforums/thread75064.html

hmm.. interesting post, I did not know they were all Christian. But Christianity was very powerful back then.. Some may have been afraid to say anything against the church.. I definitely can't see Newton as a Christian.. he was such an ass, from what I've heard lol... But maybe so, I'll have to look it up in a little.

[Rashakil Fol]

I'm a nihilist.. so I believe nothing exists after death. You didn't exist before you were born, and you cease to exist after death..:sad:

You're contradicting yourself. You don't know what nihilism is.

[Sturm]

Can you really plan a person for believing in god hundreds of years ago? No you cannot. As you cannot blame a person for believing the world is flat if the the society dictates so and the society is against free ideas and expresssion.

[christina>you]

Who are you replying to? ^

[WaltP]

Thats what my hobby is, just to think about stuff that most people find insignificant lol..

Those are the best hobbies -- CHEAP!

Evangelical: They slap each other in the head and say things like be healed. They speak in tongues, I couldn't understand a word they said.

Weren't they speaking Alabamese, or maybe Mississippian? :)

Catholic: Sorry Josh. The worst for me. Everone stands up, I start to, they all kneel, I start to kneel and they're sitting. I couldn't keep in synch. He was directing them?? God must have been telling them when to stand, sit, kneel, do the rosary or whatever. Quite a workout man.

Bill Cosby mentions going to a Catholic service once. You look around when people are kneeling and you can tell the one who aren't Catholic because they are shifting back & forth, from knees to toes. He called it The Protestant Rock! :D

Who are you replying to? ^

that's the problem when people don't quote. You just can't follow what's happening.

[christina>you]

Can you really plan a person for believing in god hundreds of years ago? No you cannot. As you cannot blame a person for believing the world is flat if the the society dictates so and the society is against free ideas and expresssion.

They were scientists. They very well could have believed in anything they wanted because they were considered intelligent and well-educated. More like geniuses. Like I have already said in my last post, in Newton's system of physics, God is essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. Einstein recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe and firmly denied atheism. William Thomson Kelvin was another scientist that I didn't mention who helped laid the foundation of modern physics. He was a committed Christian and creationist, who was certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists, George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions."

Do you honestly think middle-class people of their time would really question their intelligence? Whether it be atheism or Christianity? These were the men who shaped the foundation of science, genetics, mathematics, philosophy, mechanics, astronomy, and physics. And like I had just said, many people of their era were non-Christians. But of course no one is going to deny their brilliance.

[joshSCH]

You're contradicting yourself. You don't know what nihilism is.

damn 30 second man, your starting to piss me off.. you have to reply to everything I say.. and it's always some dumbass remark again. Yes, I do know what nihilism is.. it is the belief in NOTHING. I believe there is NO purpose to life whatsoever, and no proof for a god... So I'd appreciate it if you would stop asserting that everything I say is wrong, when in fact, it's just you being a dumbass again.

[joshSCH]

Can you really plan a person for believing in god hundreds of years ago? No you cannot. As you cannot blame a person for believing the world is flat if the the society dictates so and the society is against free ideas and expresssion.

They were scientists. They very well could have believed in anything they wanted because they were considered intelligent and well-educated. More like geniuses. Like I have already said in my last post, in Newton's system of physics, God is essential to the nature and absoluteness of space. Einstein recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe and firmly denied atheism. William Thomson Kelvin was another scientist that I didn't mention who helped laid the foundation of modern physics. He was a committed Christian and creationist, who was certainly more religious than the average for his era. Interestingly, his fellow physicists, George Gabriel Stokes (1819-1903) and James Clerk Maxwell (1831-1879) were also men of deep Christian commitment, in an era when many were nominal, apathetic, or anti-Christian. The Encyclopedia Britannica says "Maxwell is regarded by most modern physicists as the scientist of the 19th century who had the greatest influence on 20th century physics; he is ranked with Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein for the fundamental nature of his contributions."

Do you honestly think middle-class people of their time would really question their intelligence? Whether it be atheism or Christianity? These were the men who shaped the foundation of science, genetics, mathematics, philosophy, mechanics, astronomy, and physics. And like I had just said, many people of their era were non-Christians. But of course no one is going to deny their brilliance.

You both make good points. Those scientists are probably the most renowned people in the entire field of science. And their views of life were probably well respected. However, in the late 19th and early 20th century, atheism was scarce. The majority of the population was Christian. Sturm was trying to make the point that the scientists were shaped by society, and back then society was prominently Christian. Perhaps the scientists believed what they did because it was a popular belief, or because they were afraid of how people might react if they were atheist, or they may have been Christians b/c they truly believed in it. Remember how society reacted whenever a theory they had believed in a long time was proven false (The Earth is round, all planets revolve around the sun in ellipses, etc..)

[WolfPack]

damn 30 second man, your starting to piss me off.. you have to reply to everything I say.. and it's always some dumbass remark again. Yes, I do know what nihilism is.. it is the belief in NOTHING. I believe there is NO purpose to life whatsoever, and no proof for a god... So I'd appreciate it if you would stop asserting that everything I say is wrong, when in fact, it's just you being a dumbass again.

I too think you are contradicting yourself. How can your believe in Nihilism when you believe in Nothing? You believe in Something!:rolleyes:

[christina>you]

I too think you are contradicting yourself. How can your believe in Nihilism when you believe in Nothing? You believe in Something!:rolleyes:

But isn't Nihilism the belief in nothing?

[Rashakil Fol]

More particularly, look at what I was quoting.

I'm a nihilist.. so I believe nothing exists after death. You didn't exist before you were born, and you cease to exist after death..

Being a nihilist does not imply that you believe you cease to exist after death. Nor does it imply that you believe you didn't exist before you were born. But you seem to think so. I posit that you don't know what "nihilism" means.

damn 30 second man, your starting to **** me off.. you have to reply to everything I say.. and it's always some dumbass remark again.

I don't see why you would get angry about the ravings of a retarded dumbass, unless you think they might be true. Also, by the way,I will always take the time to reply to posts that are egotistically wrong. Especially when written by a person who is apparently fractally wrong.

Yes, I do know what nihilism is.. it is the belief in NOTHING.

Stop equivocating.

[joshSCH]

Nihilism is simply a philosophy.. Most people do not consider themselves as a nihilist.. Nihilism is mostly used to describe movements, eras in time, etc. The reason I say that I am nihilist, is because I believe the fundamental philosophy of nihilism is true. I do not believe that there is a purpose to humanity. No one created us, and therefore there is nothing that is truly "right" or "wrong". Nihilism is just a philosophy that can be interpreted differently. I do not 'believe' in it as you say, but I agree with its fundamentals.

[christina>you]

To Rashakil Fol:
You really should stop going crazy on everything Josh says.. I've even noticed this. You do it on the Physics Game thread too. I'm sorry, but it's really starting to get annoying.

[Rashakil Fol]

To Rashakil Fol:
You really should stop going crazy on everything Josh says.. I've even noticed this. You do it on the Physics Game thread too. I'm sorry, but it's really starting to get annoying.

I am not going crazy on things he says -- in the physics thread, he's making statements that are flagrantly false. I do not know why. I'm not going to let other people soak in his ignorancies as fact, though.

[christina>you]

I am not going crazy on things he says -- in the physics thread, he's making statements that are flagrantly false. I do not know why. I'm not going to let other people soak in his ignorancies as fact, though.

Well in this thread, it's just getting us all off topic. =/

[joshSCH]

lol.. Most of everything I have said is true, you simply true to twist it a little bit and make it seem wrong. hah it's fine.. 30 second man seems like he's still angry for all those posts a wrote making him look like a complete fool.. I could very easily make a new thread and fill it with stupid things that he has said..

[Rashakil Fol]

So: Consciousness. Have you noticed that the notion of consciousness is really, really, creepy?

[jbennet]

My 2 cents on religion:

I dont really believe in religion myself. I believe that so long as you can look yourself in the mirror in the morning, you must be doing ok. I am usually very open minded (my mum invited the jahova witnesses in for tea and biscuits once i was like O-M-G) but ive got this evangelical guy in my biology class at college, hes always preaching the ways of jesus at me and it really gets on my nerves. I mean, i believe everyone can believe whatever they want, its thier decision after all, and would have no problem if he just shut up but when someone is constantly telling you about something like that , it makes you very predjudiced against them and others like them.

Do other people find this, also whats your opinion on nuns? i find them really creepy

EDIT: Wow i just became a posting sensai!

[christina>you]

So: Consciousness. Have you noticed that the notion of consciousness is really, really, creepy?

What?

[jbennet]

What?

The notion that this may all not be real. In fact, i got reallt creeped out abut that after watching the matrix, makes you think.....

[christina>you]

My 2 cents on religion:

I dont really believe in religion myself. I believe that so long as you can look yourself in the mirror in the morning, you must be doing ok. I am usually very open minded (my mum invited the jahova witnesses in for tea and biscuits once i was like O-M-G) but ive got this evangelical guy in my biology class at college, hes always preaching the ways of jesus at me and it really gets on my nerves. I mean, i believe everyone can believe whatever they want, its thier decision after all, and would have no problem if he just shut up but when someone is constantly telling you about something like that , it makes you very predjudiced against them and others like them.

Do other people find this?

EDIT: Wow i just became a posting sensai!

I, myself, am evangelical. But I'm not the type to shove it down someone's throat or preach about fire and brimstone. I basically tell people my beliefs and faith and let them choose what they want. If they say something that I don't agree with, then I tell them why. But other than that, I think being a Christian is making yourself a better person and trying to show Jesus through your life. I mean, Jesus never went crazy over someone who didn't agree with Him, He simply just told them a parable or used intelligence to show them why they were wrong. That's why so many people followed Him. He wasn't like the Pharisees of that time.

congrats on being a posting sensai... ;)

[Mike555]

To Rashakil Fol:
You really should stop going crazy on everything Josh says.. I've even noticed this. You do it on the Physics Game thread too. I'm sorry, but it's really starting to get annoying.

i agree. all you seem to do is try to refute everything joshsch says. Are you like 5?

[Rashakil Fol]

What?

I am saying, consider consciousness. If you take a bunch of brain matter and put it together, you get a conscious being. At least in humans. Wow! That's just wickedly crazy. You wouldn't expect that, just looking at the physical universe with the five senses.

[jbennet]

I, myself, am evangelical. But I'm not the type to shove it down someone's throat or preach about fire and brimstone. I basically tell people my beliefs and faith and let them choose what they want. If they say something that I don't agree with, then I tell them why. But other than that, I think being a Christian is making yourself a better person and trying to show Jesus through your life.
congrats on being a posting sensai... ;)

thanks and yeah, i mean i agree with that, thats good. the point i was trying to make is that people who shove it in your face give others a bad name.

[jbennet]

I am saying, consider consciousness. If you take a bunch of brain matter and put it together, you get a conscious being. At least in humans. Wow! That's just wickedly crazy. You wouldn't expect that, just looking at the physical universe with the five senses.

its a bit more compilicated than that...

[christina>you]

thanks and yeah, i mean i agree with that, thats good. the point i was trying to make is that people who shove it in your face give others a bad name.

Yeah, believe me, I know. There are so many people who claim to be "Christians" and then they're total hypocrites.

[sharkey]

There are different sects of Nihilism just like there are different sects of Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism#Self-consistency_and_Paradox

[jbennet]

do you get many "ethinic minorities" in your countries? - valid opinions only please... . I personally think its good to have a bit of a mix of people

[christina>you]

Who are you asking? ^

[sharkey]

Yes, we have hispanics, russians, basque (if I spelled that right), english, African, etc.

We whites are becoming a minority here so you can count us too :)