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Exactly lasher, you choose what you believe in and what you do, of course there always is pier pressure...

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How do you know?
This is the most talked about topic, can we prove evolution? Maybe. Can we prove the existence of an almighty being that created the earth in 7 days? mmm tricky that one.

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That's not true.

What isn't true?

That there's no god? Or that most intellectuals believe there's no god?

Oh, I'm so confused...

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no, pier pressure is pressure from your friends (also referred to as piers in England) and pressure is forcing them to do it, like smoking or believing in something.

edit: go back a page hollystyles :P

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How do you know?
This is the most talked about topic, can we prove evolution? Maybe. Can we prove the existence of an almighty being that created the earth in 7 days? mmm tricky that one.

Everything is creater of something and whole universe and living beings are running on its principles (except human being) and rules it might look like that god have more intelligence than us that he created whole universe...:|

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Well if the universe is 45 odd billion years old, that means that the 'creators' time scale means that one of their years means 6.43 billion of ours. If even the 'creator' is a living thing....

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no, pier pressure is pressure from your friends (also referred to as piers in England) and pressure is forcing them to do it, like smoking or believing in something.

edit: go back a page hollystyles :P

Stick this in google:
define:pier

and then this:
define:peer

Doh!

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Sheesh, my humour must be too dry. I need to use more smilies, my mistake there. :)

Guess I should post on topic now in case I get told off!

So there's some omnipotent being that just thought the universe into being? That's a pretty amazing feet!

Or it just suddenly appeared in a massive sudden expansion some 45 billion years ago. Man that sounds pretty far fetched too.

Me? I'm keeping my options open. I know it's such a cop out!

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Believing in God suits me fine. This deep down believe is between the individual and the creator. Churches have nothing to do with it, they just have found a way to use and often abuse this believe to create power and money for themselves.

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Churches were made to help people get saved, strengthened, and feel comfortable around people who believe the same way they do.

Churches are not rich. Contrary to the beliefs of my community and even surrounding churches, my church that seats 1200 people is not at all wealthy. You may think that everyone in the church tithes and gives an offering every Sunday... but that's completely untrue. Almost half of the congregation doesn't give anything. But the church needs it because it takes a lot to keep the building cool in the summertime, warm in winter, have electricity flowing for the lights and music, etc.

The Bible teaches Christians to fellowship with one another and worship in God's House. How could we do that if there were no such thing as churches?

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Churches were made to help people get saved, strengthened, and feel comfortable around people who believe the same way they do.

Churches are not rich. Contrary to the beliefs of my community and even surrounding churches, my church that seats 1200 people is not at all wealthy. You may think that everyone in the church tithes and gives an offering every Sunday... but that's completely untrue. Almost half of the congregation doesn't give anything. But the church needs it because it takes a lot to keep the building cool in the summertime, warm in winter, have electricity flowing for the lights and music, etc.

The Bible teaches Christians to fellowship with one another and worship in God's House. How could we do that if there were no such thing as churches?

Actually, there are tons of churches here.. most baptist.. they have huge, 3,4,5 story buildings in which they even have basketball courts, youth group rooms, and stunning, huge churches. But, here is my prying question: Why does god need his own house? Why not pray on your own.. or go to other people's houses.. Why does he need a huge, expensive building? Christianity, and almost all religions for that matter, suck tons of cash from its members.. It's a blood-sucking, brainwashing cult.

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Actually, there are tons of churches here.. most baptist.. they have huge, 3,4,5 story buildings in which they even have basketball courts, youth group rooms, and stunning, huge churches. But, here is my prying question: Why does god need his own house? Why not pray on your own.. or go to other people's houses.. Why does he need a huge, expensive building? Christianity, and almost all religions for that matter, suck tons of cash from its members.. It's a blood-sucking, brainwashing cult.

Really? Is your community full of wealthy people? Because that's amazing. My church is in the process of building a recreation center for the youth.

What do you mean why does God need his own house? It's not like there's this one huge church in the whole world that everyone on the planet has to go to. It's a lot of churches that allow people everywhere to worship and fellowship as they please. And that's where we get into denominations.
Most churches are not expensive buildings...

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Christianity, and almost all religions for that matter, suck tons of cash from its members..

The Catholic church in the town I come from is so poor they can't even afford a priest. They share a priest with several other parishes, he visits one of them each week.
The other weeks one of the community reads from the Bible and performs the rites (those a layman may perform).
Their church is a wood and plaster shack built in the 1950s as a temporary structure and never replaced.

If that's a rich bloodsucking religion I don't know what wouldn't qualify...

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Well i am not of the opinion that churches sap cash from the visitors grasps with the collection tray (If that exists still) , but you can see why people believe that churches are rich because they have all the nice stained glass windows, gold items and the such, but if people donate it is up to them, and if they don't well that's their thoughts.

Also people pray in their own way, they don't necessarily want to be with a load of other people, because they may not be social with them. So what. If a place builds a church, so what where the money comes from, it came from somewhere, but who really cares. Apart form the government, but that's a different argument for a different day.

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An ocean of dreary single family homes, a fancy complex with tennis courts and a pool, also a big medical facility where I worked some time ago.

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Exactly lasher, you choose what you believe in and what you do, of course there always is pier pressure...

I don't think that there was any pier pressure to become and stay a christian. Infact i think that there is more pressure in this day and age to believe in nothing at all. That we evolved out of some boiling sespools over billions of years.

How do you know?
This is the most talked about topic, can we prove evolution? Maybe. Can we prove the existence of an almighty being that created the earth in 7 days? mmm tricky that one.

This does not seem like an argument at all to me. Neither of these things can be proved both are about belief. Christians believe in God and eternal life. Evolutionists belive that we are simply a result of billions of years of genetic mutation and that somehow everything managed to develop so perfectly in that time that we see today.
I know you have all probably heard this a thousand times but nature really should be enough proof. Personally i think everything in nature we see today seems to be equipped with everything it needs to be able to survive.

Well if the universe is 45 odd billion years old, that means that the 'creators' time scale means that one of their years means 6.43 billion of ours. If even the 'creator' is a living thing....

Your trying to prove a estimated/theoretical date wrong with a estimated/theoretical date. How does that work?

Believing in God suits me fine. This deep down believe is between the individual and the creator. Churches have nothing to do with it, they just have found a way to use and often abuse this believe to create power and money for themselves.

Church is meant to be about coming together in a group to worship God and to encourage each other. While more and more its becoming about the money there are still churches out there that are not like this.

Actually, there are tons of churches here.. most baptist.. they have huge, 3,4,5 story buildings in which they even have basketball courts, youth group rooms, and stunning, huge churches. But, here is my prying question: Why does god need his own house? Why not pray on your own.. or go to other people's houses.. Why does he need a huge, expensive building? Christianity, and almost all religions for that matter, suck tons of cash from its members.. It's a blood-sucking, brainwashing cult.

I have to agree that alot of churches have been exploiting peoples beliefs for earthly riches and gains thats true and this actually is the complete oposite to what we are told in the bible. Basically its not how its meant to be.

As i have said there is no brainwashing about it infact i have no idea where you are getting this from. As far as i can see this is nothing but name calling. You can believe in whatever you want but don't go around pissing on everyone that doesn't believe the same things as you.

Well i am not of the opinion that churches sap cash from the visitors grasps with the collection tray (If that exists still) , but you can see why people believe that churches are rich because they have all the nice stained glass windows, gold items and the such, but if people donate it is up to them, and if they don't well that's their thoughts.

The image that you seem to have is of the standard catholic church with the stained glass windows and gold cups. As i have already said the catholic church has vast stockpiles of money that they are not putting to good use and you are probably right this is where the idea that alot of churches are rich comes from along with the churches that josh has mentioned. As far as i am concerned this money could be put to alot better use in the comunity and helping people rather then buying basketball courts for its members and various other luxuries. These things make it seem like some sort of exclusive club rather then a group of people who come together with the same beliefs to encourage each other in those.

These denominations have lost sight of what christianity is all about.

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good job!
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I don't think that there was any pier pressure to become and stay a christian. Infact i think that there is more pressure in this day and age to believe in nothing at all. That we evolved out of some boiling sespools over billions of years.

It's *peer* pressure.. and what are you, some kind of idiot? How on earth could you infer that there is more peer pressure to not believe in god than to actually believe in god? Do you know the statistics? Christians outnumber atheists big time.. You're completely wrong. It is much more difficult being an atheist than a christian.

This does not seem like an argument at all to me. Neither of these things can be proved both are about belief. Christians believe in God and eternal life. Evolutionists belive that we are simply a result of billions of years of genetic mutation and that somehow everything managed to develop so perfectly in that time that we see today.
I know you have all probably heard this a thousand times but nature really should be enough proof. Personally i think everything in nature we see today seems to be equipped with everything it needs to be able to survive.

Nature is proof for the existence of a god? LMAO. Keep in mind, that proportional to the time the universe has been in existence, humans have lived for about a second. It has taken hundreds, thousands, millions, billions of years for such conditions to be just right for life. So yeah, it's you who is being illogical once again.

As i have said there is no brainwashing about it infact i have no idea where you are getting this from.

Yes, but of course if you were being brainwashed, then you wouldn't know it, now would you?

The image that you seem to have is of the standard catholic church with the stained glass windows and gold cups. As i have already said the catholic church has vast stockpiles of money that they are not putting to good use and you are probably right this is where the idea that alot of churches are rich comes from along with the churches that josh has mentioned. As far as i am concerned this money could be put to alot better use in the comunity and helping people rather then buying basketball courts for its members and various other luxuries. These things make it seem like some sort of exclusive club rather then a group of people who come together with the same beliefs to encourage each other in those.

The churches I mentioned were baptist.. And yes, most denominations are using money for other things.. Where did you get the idea that catholics hoard the money just to pay off the top people? Just decide to make that up too? You post with a ton of bull, and not enough fact. Perhaps research, and post links before just attacking random religions.

By the way, I noticed you use 'alot' often. This is not a word, sorry. Use 'a lot' if you must, but even that is not used by the more intellectual people. Same with 'infact'. That is actually two words: "In fact". But then again, you wouldn't know that..

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It's *peer* pressure.. and what are you, some kind of idiot? How on earth could you infer that there is more peer pressure to not believe in god than to actually believe in god? Do you know the statistics? Christians outnumber atheists big time.. You're completely wrong. It is much more difficult being an atheist than a christian.

Would you mind sharing where you got those stats from? I do not know about where you come from but here there are alot more non christians then there are christians especially in the schools,goverment and media.

Nature is proof for the existence of a god? LMAO. Keep in mind, that proportional to the time the universe has been in existence, humans have lived for about a second. It has taken hundreds, thousands, millions, billions of years for such conditions to be just right for life. So yeah, it's you who is being illogical once again.

No matter how many scientists you talk to you can never get a straight answer for how old the earth actually is and whenever you actually bring up the topic of how perfect nature is they simply tell you that the world is really old. What i said is there are no imperfect species surely things diddnt just happen to evolve into this at the same time just for our benefit.

Yes, but of course if you were being brainwashed, then you wouldn't know it, now would you?

I think you watch to many movies.

The churches I mentioned were baptist.. And yes, most denominations are using money for other things.. Where did you get the idea that catholics hoard the money just to pay off the top people? Just decide to make that up too? You post with a ton of bull, and not enough fact. Perhaps research, and post links before just attacking random religions.

I did not say they are hording money for the top people. Your taking two seperate things that i have said and putting them together. What i actually said is that they have massive stockpiles of money that could be put to much better use. There is a book on this topic i can not remember the name of it but i will try to find it.

For someone who is so against the church you seem quite quick to jump in and defend the catholic church.

By the way, I noticed you use 'alot' often. This is not a word, sorry. Use 'a lot' if you must, but even that is not used by the more intellectual people. Same with 'infact'. That is actually two words: "In fact". But then again, you wouldn't know that..

My spelling should not matter. Seems to me like you are using my spelling as a way to avoid the topic and questions. I think you would make a very good politician.

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Would you mind sharing where you got those stats from? I do not know about where you come from but here there are alot more non christians then there are christians especially in the schools,goverment and media.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States
And I quote:"According to the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey (discussed below), 80% of the U.S. is Christian "

No matter how many scientists you talk to you can never get a straight answer for how old the earth actually is and whenever you actually bring up the topic of how perfect nature is they simply tell you that the world is really old. What i said is there are no imperfect species surely things diddnt just happen to evolve into this at the same time just for our benefit.

No, most scientists will agree it is about 13/7 billion years.. +/- a few hundred million. Humans are still imperfect, you fool. We die, don't we? That there is a sign of imperfection.. Also, we have talked about this previously.. go back and read what we said, google it yourself, or don't say another word about it.

I did not say they are hording money for the top people. Your taking two seperate things that i have said and putting them together. What i actually said is that they have massive stockpiles of money that could be put to much better use. There is a book on this topic i can not remember the name of it but i will try to find it.

Yes, well tell me when you find it lol

For someone who is so against the church you seem quite quick to jump in and defend the catholic church.

I used to be catholic so I know quite a bit about that faith.

My spelling should not matter. Seems to me like you are using my spelling as a way to avoid the topic and questions.

Oh but it does. How am I to take you seriously when you write like an idiot?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States
And I quote:"According to the 2001 American Religious Identification Survey (discussed below), 80% of the U.S. is Christian "

Wow i did not know there was that many that number is alot less here.

No, most scientists will agree it is about 13/7 billion years.. +/- a few hundred million. Humans are still imperfect, you fool. We die, don't we? That there is a sign of imperfection.. Also, we have talked about this previously.. go back and read what we said, google it yourself, or don't say another word about it.

When i say perfect i mean in the way that we and everything in nature works. I do not think that death is exactly an imperfection anyway.

Yes, well tell me when you find it lol

Will do.

I used to be catholic so I know quite a bit about that faith.

You just seemed to be defending the catholics against the same thing that you are arguing.

Oh but it does. How am I to take you seriously when you write like an idiot?

I have said previously that im not the best at explaining what i mean when im typing. I certainly do not think that a few spelling mistakes would class me as an idiot however.

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@ josch

you know that i am atheist but i am going to have to say that i cant see churhes making much money. of course you get the odd thief but that is human nature. no. i would rather say that their chief flaw is that they are severly misguided but then again they say the same for us.

@ those who dont see the peer pressure

pretend that you are not religious and you would see just how many hundreds come marching up to you with the phrase: "sinner! repent! or you will burn in hell."

i sometimes jokingly repeat these exact same words in the exact same tone but instead of "sinner repent" i say "believe as i believe!" which more or less is the same thing.

@ lasher

of course we dont know the exact hour minute or day that the earth was created but we do know that it was about 4.5 billion years ago.

and while we are on the topic allow me to correct some mistakes. or perhaps i am mistaken. in that case feel free to correct me.

the unverse is between 15 and 20 billion years old. the sun is about 5 billion years old and will burn for 5 billion more. modern life, since the cambrian explosion, is about 590 million years old and humans between 40 000 and 2 million depending on what species you classify as human. i only classify homo sapien as human so my number is 40 000.

about mother nature.

nature is not perfect. it appears to be perfect from where we stand. all the ecosystems in existence at this exact moment appears to be perfect for the simple reason that everything which did not fit in had been killed.

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@ sulley's boo
>i didn't like your last comment much


who are you talking about? me or lasher or josch. if you are talking about me then i can only say that i am speaking the truth.

an ecosystem is an area where living and non-living things co-exists. in fact that is what ecology is. it is a study of an organism where he occurs naturally and it studies his interaction with both the living and non living element of his environment.

when an organism no longer fits in with either living or non elements he dies because he cannot find food, shelter or sexual partners.

let me give you an example. up to 2.4 billion years ago most life forms on earth used no oxygen. so when green algae and bacteria flooded the atmosphere with oxygen they all died.

one can still find some of those primitive life forms on earth today. they are usualy very deep under the earth's ocean where they live from the heat of the earth's mantle or core or something(sorry. not sure just now.) and where there is no oxygen. as soon as they are brought to the surface where oxygen is abundent, they die.

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