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Have you ever noticed that in this forum under TechSupport...you have more people in the Macro$haft area than in the Linux area?

Just thought it was weird. I mean, I know when I got firebird configured just right for slackware...I haven't had to do jack squat for it. And using swaret...I'm set for packages. Anytime a security update comes out...I'm set within 1 hour. Makes me wonder how Macro$haft got anywhere at all.

I love Linux! :P :cheesy:

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Last Post by samaru
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im with you on that one LINUX is the shitz...... i hate micro$hady so much but after all you have to have something to fix...lol

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TKS, alot off people learned to use a computer using windows. They either don't want to get out of their comfort zone or don't need to. Windows will take care of their needs(word proccesor, e-mail, games, etc.) Just be glad that you have an option to use a different OS.
To each his own, use what works best for you.

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i agree , but my opion still stands .... i hate micro$hady ... but yeah to each his own... like Cingular says "What fits you best" /// i hate work too..

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>>>>>TKS, alot off people learned to use a computer using windows. They either don't want to get out of their comfort zone or don't need to. Windows will take care of their needs(word proccesor, e-mail, games, etc.)<<<<<<

I didn't know how to word that but you toke the words straight out of my mouth

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would you believe that most ordinary people who uses computers don't even know how to use the MS-DOS shell? then, how would you expect them to use *nix? I always wanted to install linux on my pc, but my brothers/sisters/parents wont be able to use them. since they use it only for surfing, chatting, and word processing.

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would you believe that most ordinary people who uses computers don't even know how to use the MS-DOS shell? then, how would you expect them to use *nix? I always wanted to install linux on my pc, but my brothers/sisters/parents wont be able to use them. since they use it only for surfing, chatting, and word processing.

If that's all they're doing, they can definitely do all of that in Linux. There's a wider selection of browsers, good chat clients, and there are a few good word processors.

If you don't want to install Linux, you can still run it-- there's always KNOPPIX. It's a bootable CD containing a complete Linux system. From there, you can do anything you can do with an installed Linux system.

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Have you ever noticed that in this forum under TechSupport...you have more people in the Macro$haft area than in the Linux area?

Just thought it was weird. I mean, I know when I got firebird configured just right for slackware...I haven't had to do jack squat for it. And using swaret...I'm set for packages. Anytime a security update comes out...I'm set within 1 hour. Makes me wonder how Macro$haft got anywhere at all.

I love Linux! :P :cheesy:

Are you a Linux advocate? If so, just keep in mind that Linux advocacy does not mean Microsoft bashing. I'm mentioning this by how you constantly demean the word Microsoft ("Macro$haft"). Linux/open source advocates tend to forget this. I say this because Microsoft bashing insults and irritates people, which is a lot of times why they turn away from Linux. Rather then basing Linux purely as a piece of software, they base it on the attitude of Microsoft haters. This is truly disgusting. Again, I'm not saying it's you, but you'll see what I mean if you post something like "I love Microsoft" at slashdot (where the admins there ridicule Microsoft all the time, yet have Microsoft ads on the site).

As much as I love Linux, people have told me that they loathe it. I think part of this has more to do with the community than the software. Also, I'm not trying to be on anyone's side. Linux and Windows both have their uses. I'm neutral towards both. I'm a computer science major, and all we use at our university is either Linux or Unix. One thing I can't stand though is the arrogance of Linux people when it comes to discussing anything from Microsoft. I'm not saying they're arrogant people in general, just when it comes to anything Microsoft related. This in itself is a stereotypical comment, I know. Not all people are like that. But I've met about 50 people who are pro-Linux and I can say that out of 50, 45 of them were arrogant and would rather take a bullet in the head than mix the words "good" and "Windows" in the same sentence. I'm not just talking about students, but also professors who are in the 40's and 50's. This also applies to people in forums.

Anyways, this is just a rant. I posted something like this at a few open source forums, and got about a million flames for my so called "stupid post," as they put it. This is the kind of attitude that gives the Linux/open source community a bad name.

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...not to mention that the use of the word "shaft" in this regard is probably a violation of the board's terms of service regarding profanity...

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I tried Knoppix and it impressed me very little. Main reason being, everyone was flocking onto the knoppix bandwagon and it has a VERY hard time detecting any DELL system out there as well as Gateway. And that is what I make firewalls with for all my family and friends. So, I needed something that detected hardware better and was more windows like.

So, after 3 months of continuous cycling of distros through my CDR...I found it. MEPIS Linux. I liked MEPIS so much, I installed it onto that 20GB hard disk. I am currently training my entire family on openoffice.org 1.1 and will soon go to an entire Linux household. But I wouldn't have without MEPIS. Give that one a try sometime, you'll like it.

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you constantly demean the word Microsoft ("Macro$haft").

Simply put...I use Macro$haft so I don't get held responsible for defamation. Plus, that's exactly what I feel I'm getting every time I boot up on WinXP...the shaft. The thing that gets me is the price....I'll post some more about this in the proper forum. But that's why I use that term...I don't hate the software...I hate the outrageous price. Hence the name...plus if I used Micro$oft how it is supposed to and accidentally defamed the name...I could get some legal action taken against me. I just cover my arse all the time.


As far as usage of the word 'shaft,' here's the dictionary definition:

MerriamWebster Online
Main Entry: shaft
1 : to fit with a shaft
2 : to treat unfairly or harshly

There ya go! You won't see me use any profanity ever...100% guarantee of that.

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As far as usage of the word 'shaft,' here's the dictionary definition:

MerriamWebster Online
Main Entry: shaft
1 : to fit with a shaft
2 : to treat unfairly or harshly

There ya go! You won't see me use any profanity ever...100% guarantee of that.

"to treat unfairly or harshly"

Without going into too many specifics... think about it. Getting a shaft... I'm sure this post will be moderated out (as it probably should be), but if you were to get a "shaft" somewhere or somehow, how might that be considered a bad, harsh, or unfair thing by most? Merriam Webster chose that definition because it defines the term without really giving a nod to the sexual/obscene nature of the colloquialism.

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Have you ever noticed that in this forum under TechSupport...you have more people in the Macro$haft area than in the Linux area?

Just thought it was weird. I mean, I know when I got firebird configured just right for slackware...I haven't had to do jack squat for it. And using swaret...I'm set for packages. Anytime a security update comes out...I'm set within 1 hour. Makes me wonder how Macro$haft got anywhere at all.

I love Linux! :P

You are defending systems that are too weak to even be evaluated against the DOD-STD-5200.28? And a system that scored a pathetic EAL2 against ISO-15408? A single level system, with a super user and trasitive rights? A monolithic system ("finitie state machine? duh what is that?") with perhaps the least finely grained access control model of any OS? A system which features no integrity controls, no temporal access controls, no trusted subsystems, no security kernel, no network flags, no structured domains, no CAF, no serperation of administrators and operators, no ISO account, no covert channel protections, no secure logon sequence even.
Yeah let's talk about security, but speak in facts... not personal attacks, accusations, or highly subjective terms... personal observations and the likes.


Edit**********According to the good people of ISO-15408 auditing, Windows is more secure than Linux.
According to the good people of the DOD, Windows is more secure than Linux.
IMHO....I have no desire to "work" with such systems beside on the hobby level, the whole Linux movement doesn't do anything for me. I like to work within more mature development models. ;)

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I rate it like this...and of course, who am I? But, if you hadn't mentioned the ISO stuff and DOD STD I wouldn't have known about them either...so who are they? It really gets into a semantic debate about who can write their name in the snow better. Regardless, I stick with the one that does best for me...which is the one you stick with. Each has vulnerabilities and each one has flaws as there are no perfect systems. I just go with the one that has less viruses. Period.

Say all you want regarding anything and everything...I spent 3 hours getting Welchia, Netsky.D, and the Bliss.c trojan off my windows machine yesterday. My linux box hummed along right beside it, oblivious to anything. So, that is my reason for going with Linux. I don't care what anyone else tells me about it...I mean, they could tell me that a Pinto is a piece of dung to drive...but I dig Pintos...know what I mean? To each their own. Speaking of which...as a DoD employee...I can tell you that the DoD isn't someone I would trust with rating technology. We just upgraded our Pentium II's last month...We still have 2 machines with Pentium III's on them....which might be fine and dandy at some places...but this is supposed to be state of the art? Bah...don't get me started there. I'll leave it at that...I've went off on a rant enough. Please don't take this personal anyone...it is just a matter of who prefers what...and I am conceding that. :D

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I rate it like this...and of course, who am I? But, if you hadn't mentioned the ISO stuff and DOD STD I wouldn't have known about them either...so who are they? It really gets into a semantic debate about who can write their name in the snow better. Regardless, I stick with the one that does best for me...which is the one you stick with. Each has vulnerabilities and each one has flaws as there are no perfect systems.

UN*X/Linux users fail to understand basic security principals of transitive rights or basic OS design fundementals like the advantages of the microkernel.
Their OS of choice conveys it clearly enough.;)
If you disagree, don't flame me, I am just telling you what those criteria say... go flame the NCSC or the NSA etc..... cause they wrote it, not me. :)
http://www.radium.ncsc.mil/tpep/
http://www.sei.cmu.edu/cmm/ linux is at one.

I just go with the one that has less viruses. Period.Say all you want regarding anything and everything...I spent 3 hours getting Welchia, Netsky.D, and the Bliss.c trojan off my windows machine yesterday.

Doesn't the DoD school you on how to handle your resources correctly?

Speaking of which...as a DoD employee...I can tell you that the DoD isn't someone I would trust with rating technology. We just upgraded our Pentium II's last month...We still have 2 machines with Pentium III's on them....which might be fine and dandy at some places...but this is supposed to be state of the art? Bah...don't get me started there.

First of all, even if you did work for the DoD(and I hope we are talking about the same DoD). The DoD is all over our country USA, examples: Pentagon,cheyenne MT(NORAD) ect.....point being offices, they are all over the country. I'm sure they have people who clean the bathrooms ect... but to say they have outdated products is really retarded. For example they have several HYDRA's http://www.bodacion.com/ need I say more.......

Please don't take this personal anyone...it is just a matter of who prefers what...and I am conceding that. :D

Something tells me that you are thinking I'm pro microsoft which would be wrong, I'm pro (TOS) ;)

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The forums are meant to be used for sharing ideas and helping people out. By starting holy-wars about "Which operating system is cooler" you are shying people away in search of valuable information. Microsoft serves it's purpose in the world just as Linux or any other operating system does. Please refrain from continuing to flame on about this topic in this forum. Such conversations may be held in the Geek Lounge or in personal messages.

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Of what I remembered, this thread started off with a question on why the MS forums are having more participants than the non-MS forums... now, I'm wondering how and why it became a debate on which OS is better... ???

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The forums are meant to be used for sharing ideas and helping people out. By starting holy-wars about "Which operating system is cooler" you are shying people away in search of valuable information. Microsoft serves it's purpose in the world just as Linux or any other operating system does. Please refrain from continuing to flame on about this topic in this forum. Such conversations may be held in the Geek Lounge or in personal messages.

Why can't someone post facts about a system being inferior without everyone thinking it is something personal? (especially linux users in general get offended, why is that?)

I find it disturbing how many people go into Linux with their eyes completely closed just because some 1337 kids online said it was cool and it is always popular to root for the underdog.
You will notice that I don't post opinions about Linux ("it blows" etc) I merely cite facts about it. In this thread I noted it's EAL2 rating, that is a fact.

So what's wrong with educating people on facts about operating systems?


Oh, bb's are not finite, as what people post, people are not robots and machines.

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Why can't someone post facts about a system being inferior without everyone thinking it is something personal? (especially linux users in general get offended, why is that?)

I find it disturbing how many people go into Linux with their eyes completely closed just because some 1337 kids online said it was cool and it is always popular to root for the underdog.
You will notice that I don't post opinions about Linux ("it blows" etc) I merely cite facts about it. In this thread I noted it's EAL2 rating, that is a fact.

So what's wrong with educating people on facts about operating systems?


Oh, bb's are not finite, as what people post, people are not robots and machines.

WEATHER CHANNEL, you're welcomed to give your opinions on ANY topic. Whether it's software, hardware, ideas, or anything related in the field of computers, or anything else for that matter. You can even attack it, and ridicule it. However, notice how I'm NOT mentioning people. When you say the following:

UN*X/Linux users fail to understand basic security principals of transitive rights or basic OS design fundementals like the advantages of the microkernel.

but to say they have outdated products is really retarded

Something tells me that you are thinking I'm pro microsoft which would be wrong, I'm pro (TOS)

I find it disturbing how many people go into Linux with their eyes completely closed

you're no longer attacking issues, you're attacking people basing it only on the contents of a post. THIS is what leads to flaming. When you start questioning people's intelligence for having their own opinions, it's when battles start. I understand the passion you have for your beliefs, but please respect the opinions of others.

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Of what I remembered, this thread started off with a question on why the MS forums are having more participants than the non-MS forums... now, I'm wondering how and why it became a debate on which OS is better... ???

I was wondering that myself. I didn't mean to start a war :cry:

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UN*X/Linux users fail to understand basic security principals of transitive rights or basic OS design fundementals like the advantages of the microkernel


You left out, Their OS of choice conveys it clearly enough. which was the whole point, not an ATTACK which some tried to SPIN.
I'll provide a PDF for you because, I don't quite think you know what a (TOS) is and are getting it mixed up with something else? (see page 82)

but to say they have outdated products is really retarded

Here again, I don't the see the attack you are reffering to. Look up retarded in the dictionary, it means to move slow , which I was reffering to, as the DoD's technology is not slow.

Something tells me that you are thinking I'm pro microsoft which would be wrong, I'm pro (TOS)

Here again, I don't see the attack,which leads me to the conclusion your mixing up (TOS) with something else? TOS means Trusted Operating Systems. So what was so wrong with that statement? I'll follow this "correcting of SPIN" up in a day or so with what secure operating systems involve, however in the meantime here I've attached class notes from a TOS design class.


I find it disturbing how many people go into Linux with their eyes completely closed .

Is NT a secure system? No.
Is any Linux/UN*X a secure system? No.
Do secure systems exist? Yes.
Should people who live in glass houses stop throwing stones? ...


Lastly, back to the original point... it is not a matter of what is better X or Y, it is a matter of having impartial, factual data made availible so that people can choose what meets their needs. Without good information, it's all just shots in the dark, doesn't matter if you are comparing NT v Linux, HP-VV v MVS, or STOP v KSOS, hell even Ford v Honda... anything objectivity is paramount.

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I was wondering that myself. I didn't mean to start a war :cry:

So, you're to blame for all of this... hehhe LOL:cheesy:

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You left out, Their OS of choice conveys it clearly enough. which was the whole point, not an ATTACK which some tried to SPIN.

I was never trying to reiterate YOUR point. I was trying to get MY point across, which is having consideration for people when posting.

I'll provide a PDF for you because, I don't quite think you know what a (TOS) is and are getting it mixed up with something else? (see page 82)

Again with your assumptions. You don't know how much I know, and I don't know how much you know. I'm not going to assume anything about you because I simply don't know you. Discussing any other issue besides YOUR behavior and etiquette was NEVER the intention of my post. My post was strictly about YOUR behavior.

"but to say they have outdated products is really retarded"

Here again, I don't the see the attack you are reffering to. Look up retarded in the dictionary, it means to move slow , which I was reffering to, as the DoD's technology is not slow.

In your sentence, "retarded" is modifying your verb "say," thus the person who is saying it. You're saying the person who is saying it is retarded. I think you're reaching out too far by saying the meaning for retarded is slow. Of course it's slow. But in this case, people don't interpret it as that, and I think you should know that. People often use the word "gay" not for happy, but for homosexuality. The same applies here. When people say "retard" it usually means a lack of intelligence.

The rest of your statements along with my replies is just a message to control yourself. I'm not just basing your behavior on this particular post, but on previous others as well. And not just on this account, but on your old "B.Affleck" account as well. I don't care if you're over passionate about your ideas and get out of hand sometimes, but just control yourself. I've received numerous complaints from other members about your posts, which is the only reason why decided to reply.

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Ok first of all the big"B" account was used by alot of people at my old work, the account would stay logged on for 8-12 hours at a any given time.The original goal of the Big'B' account was to trump the amount of post of all moderators. In the end it just lost control.
Yeah I'm not denying, and I'm sure there was alot of debates. None of the users ever directly sent private messages saying, hey stop I'm going to tell. Hell alot of people at work registered here,put in some post, but then left due to what ever reasons. This is not the only site we attempted this on, but this was the smallest site, with the bigger sites, the mods were 20-30 times more layed back. I guess alot of that layed back policy feel was brought over here and actually, I would like to make a public apology. If you feel there was no benefit,no help given, no facts posted, no resources given, & since obivously no good was achieved you can personally delete all of the account post.

But I have been following these guidelines and rules, atleast I thought I was?

Do not troll.
Do not post pornographic material or link to it.
Do not use innappropriate material in your avatar or signature.
Do not flame other members.
Do not spam. If you are in dire need of promoting your website, e-mail/PM me about exchanging links.
Do not post racist, sexist or prejudiced remarks or comments.
Do not post anything warez related or related to other illegal acts.
Any threads in unsuitable forums will be moved to another at the administrator's/moderator's discretion.
Respect the site administrators and moderators and accept their decisions.


And I have not flamed anyone with this account nor cursed ect........

Passion your right, I do love to share the knowledege that I have learned like, I have ton's of PDF's from class's and other events such as seminars ect... I rather see people learn than to read misinformation thas is all over the BB's everywhere. Like ALC" AkA cookie monster wanted to know some links so I posted. I never stop sharing information about computers and correcting bad information about them aswell. I like to help people with whatever OS they choose take a gander in this forum for example.

Just because you do not understand something, does not mean that "we" do not understand it. Just as it is not ok for me to assume that you don't understand something just because I don't, when you start defining reality based on your level of knowledge, the universe gets very small very fast.

The thing I love, is that I'll be branded as an MS lover for this post, which is amusing how people tend to find anything less than: "Micro$haft and bill Gates are the antichrist." as loving Microsoft, and god forbid anyone here or any board actually bring facts and objectivity into the conversation.

But I will leave some more educative facts about linux in paticular, as far as security is concerned NT is superior. Don't believe me? Lets see what the good people at RedHat have to say.
http://www.redhat.com/partners/pres...er_oracle5.html
http://www.commoncriteria.org/ccc/e...tail.jsp?id=140
Hmm Imagine that... WIndows got the highest evaluation and Linux....?
Now that is education.

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I don't think your posts are useless. They are very informative indeed. What I can't stand however is when you go off attacking a person's beliefs just because they don't agree with you. This used to be worse with your "big b" account, but it seems you've toned down somewhat. All I can tell you is just to watch what you say. You seem like a smart person, but lacking a little bit in etiquette, which is the reason why I received complaints.

You can criticize any technology you want, but to avoid flames, don't criticize people.

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