I have a very simple question for someone. I am trying to get back into java programming and I downloaded the latest textpad. Can someone please provide me the link of what else I need? I am on a Windows 7 machine.

You need the latest Java JRE and I would suggest also getting an IDE (Eclipse, NetBeans, BlueJay, etc).

I'm certain you are able to navigate google to find these.

Edited 5 Years Ago by ztini: n/a

If you want to understand java, skip the IDE, get a proper text editor, and compile from the command line. Once you're developing larger applications, it might make sense to start using an IDE, but for now features like auto-completion, syntax highlighting, and the like will only insulate you from the language and keep you from learning it thoroughly.

My editor of choice is vi, others prefer emacs - "textpad", "notepad" and the like are not really what you're looking for.

If you want to understand java, skip the IDE, get a proper text editor, and compile from the command line. Once you're developing larger applications, it might make sense to start using an IDE, but for now features like auto-completion, syntax highlighting, and the like will only insulate you from the language and keep you from learning it thoroughly.

My editor of choice is vi, others prefer emacs - "textpad", "notepad" and the like are not really what you're looking for.

if he is going to use a text editor i suggest notepad++ because it has syntax highlighting but no auto completion or error correction and it works with many programming languages

If you want to understand java, skip the IDE, get a proper text editor, and compile from the command line. Once you're developing larger applications, it might make sense to start using an IDE, but for now features like auto-completion, syntax highlighting, and the like will only insulate you from the language and keep you from learning it thoroughly.

My editor of choice is vi, others prefer emacs - "textpad", "notepad" and the like are not really what you're looking for.

I disagree with you here Jon.

BlueJay displays classes as UML diagrams and allows for the rapid deployment of test classes and debugging. Three vital skills to progressing in Java.

Eclipse takes it a bit further with the method listings for objects. Instead of switching windows to google the method calls for some class, you need can read the call with the API description in the Eclipse workspace.

Other IDE's have similar features and functions; those are the two that I learned during my undergrad.

Why anyone would suggest not using an IDE is beyond me. It's like telling an art student they can't use acrylic paint, paint brushes, or a canvas---they have to instead use Crayola crayons and notebook paper. You shouldn't learn Java in notepad anymore than you should learn how to paint with crayons. Its just asinine. If the tools are readily available, use them and learn them.

@jon.kiparsky agree notepad for win!

@ztini you would be first person that I met using BlueJay in industry, or perhaps you are still student...
UML diagrams
>I would say rather rarely used as their take hell of time to create and people do understand them differently in what they supposed to mean

rapid deployment of test classes and debugging
>Any IDE can do it so you missed point here

Why anyone would suggest not using an IDE is beyond me.
>Simple, to understand basics. To get hang of errors that compiler throws at me and be able to deal with them no matter what IDE I may use or be forced to use (there are still some companies that persist on use of Eclipse or NetBeans, mostly because management decided so 10 years ago). To be able compile robust program from command line (you never know when you will be on client side trying to debug server application but you cannot not connect with your beloved desktop/laptop or install your favourite IDE because of complicated security measurement company put in place to protect their network/servers).
Call me crazy or stupid but while learning Java I did 3-4months only notepad with console, after that I used JCreator LE (his is free version, nice GUI, only syntax highlighting, no auto suggestion/completer) for good 2 years.


It's like telling an art student they can't use acrylic paint, paint brushes, or a canvas---they have to instead use Crayola crayons and notebook paper.
>Here is surprise. They DO! Yo know why? Because paints, brushes and canvas are hell expensive if you are beginner and just finding your way around, to see if you have skill to take it to next level.

hmmm interesting, very

(I'm talking now only about NetBeans and don't about Generic)

1/ why learns some programing language from some NotepadDinosaurusCreature
not, no, never, don't do that, loose lot's of time, only you'll learn very fast typing as proof administrative...

my view: I loose my ... on RPG and Cobol, I'm said never, never ever from moment when they alloved FreeCodeFormating (c + java)

2/ why put & compile some code to ..., if today IDE's highlightings errors inmediatelly

my view: I need because IDE popup as sugestion all available methods, with light described narrative too, get an advice to someone to reads API, why -- this API I have on screen, every moment when I need or want to check something

3/ >Simple, ..., that's not true at all,

4/ just FW "Call me crazy" yes, ... sometimes with this job :-)

5/ a few programers (comings from assembler, fortran, bacis, plain vanilla C, cobol) is able to write really working code,

6/ I'm very lazy and my laziness doesn't allows me something very stupid..

7/ and interested me as well if supports codeTeaming

8/ there was something about stupid or similair wors, how can I get & wrote from that nested methods,
any halfSmartMonkey (inc my person) can directly wrote with code hints

comboBox.getEditor().getEditorComponent().setBackground(someColor);
((JTextField) comboBox.getEditor().getEditorComponent()).setDisabledTextColor(someColor);
etc.

yes about painting, coding is special forms of Arts, nothing else or more,

Edited 5 Years Ago by mKorbel: add 7. and 8.

@mKorbel you are a programmer that is different. If you are student with no previous experience in the field then I would recommend to take it from command prompt. In the short time since I started openly participating in programming forums I seen one to many idiots coming asking questions what is wrong with their IDEs when the error in 99% was their bad code

I wouldn't tell you to compile Java in your own home-made compiler, but I think if you've compiled some significant portion of the language, you'll write much better code. I wouldn't tell you to write your programs in assembly language, but I think if you learn to write working code in assembly, you'll understand code a lot better. I wouldn't tell you to write your code in Lisp, but I think if you work through the Little Schemer or SICP you'll write cleaner and more graceful code in any language.
Most importantly I wouldn't tell you what you should use as a long-term development toolkit, but I can assure you that learning to write and debug code by hand will teach you skills that will help you immensely in the long run.
I actually wrote that compiler in vi, using ant to build it. Believe me, you learn to see things. You learn to smell the code.

When you're compiling one-class student programs and simple packages, you don't need the features of an IDE, what you need is the experience writing your own code - not having your code half-written by your tools.

If the tools are readily available, use them and learn them.

It's really not that much of an issue to use Eclipse. The hardest part for me was learning how to turn off the auto-complete and other functions, because they tend to slow me down. The tools are not hard to learn.

It's like telling an art student they can't use acrylic paint, paint brushes, or a canvas---they have to instead use Crayola crayons and notebook paper. You shouldn't learn Java in notepad anymore than you should learn how to paint with crayons.

Actually, as Peter points out, you do start with pen and ink, and you probably progress through watercolors charcoals and who knows what else. Not only because acrylics are expensive (and they are) but because each of those media has things to teach the artist that acrylics or oils or whatever your final medium will be can't teach on their own. Good example, you make my case perfectly.

@ peter_budo

then our answer (probably) would be --> "please, Tool -> Option -> Editor -> select Tab Hints -> Language -> Java -> there please carrefully expand and select all Options" -> Save :-)

maybe there are three levels

1/ not if you did not enjoy it, so there you mowed the grass, watch the TV
2/ even after all you enjoy... :-)
3/ how many gurus with 10-20-50T posts (on other hands) sometimes ... I'm always learning with every new post that I read, that head must still works

now seriously, compilier or IDE or NotePad and yours, our truly on this forum doesn't solved:
- on this forum don't works/exists strike rules, so that people only abuse...
- lack basic knowledge about something as abstract like as machine code
- most of them I would not let go to the PC

@ jon.kiparsky

today is but another time, few people today are worried about own knowledge and skills, because everything "balast" is on the Web, but that's very counterproductive for their (in futures) real employer,

Edited 5 Years Ago by mKorbel: n/a

Of all the posts in this thread, I am in complete agreement with Progr4mmer's post.

To someone beginning programming (not just Java), I'd neither recommend a full-blown IDE or a stupid text editor like Notepad. I mean come on, if you want to test your vision, there are better things to do that "try" to program in Notepad. :-)

I wouldn't recommend a specific text editor but any editor which does smart indentation, syntax highlighting, has the option of converting tabs to spaces, a regex based search/replace and multiple encoding support is worth its weight in gold.

@ztini you would be first person that I met using BlueJay in industry, or perhaps you are still student...

I wasn't suggesting that BlueJay is used in the industry; only elaborating on its features and how those tie into skills needed in the industry. Likewise, I don't know any developers who used Notepad++ on a professional basis. The standard, at least from my experience, has been Eclipse. More so, I wasn't suggesting BlueJay is the ONE, but rather using it as an example to explain that IDE's are great!

UML diagrams
I would say rather rarely used as their take hell of time to create and people do understand them differently in what they supposed to mean

UML is large part of our design at work. I'm not saying we get down to the nitty-gritty details, as perhaps a professor might enforce--but we use UML to illustrate the overall mapping of classes. More so, how do you suggest someone learns about design patterns without visualizing them in UML?

rapid deployment of test classes and debugging
Any IDE can do it so you missed point here

Exactly, any IDE can do this. Exactly why an IDE should be used.

(you never know when you will be on client side trying to debug server application but you cannot not connect with your beloved desktop/laptop or install your favourite IDE because of complicated security measurement company put in place to protect their network/servers).

I do know...it is never. Remote desktop. I do it everyday at a large bank, even with "complicated security measure[s]".

Call me crazy or stupid but while learning Java I did 3-4months only notepad with console, after that I used JCreator LE (his is free version, nice GUI, only syntax highlighting, no auto suggestion/completer) for good 2 years.

You are crazy. In the same time period I learned the same Java. I compliled the same entry level code, made the same mistakes, etc. However, after 3-4 months I understood class relationships, debugging with an IDE, and was already in the habit of test-driven development. You don't gain any skills by using notepad; on the contrary you gain skill by using an IDE.

It's like telling an art student they can't use acrylic paint, paint brushes, or a canvas---they have to instead use Crayola crayons and notebook paper.
>Here is surprise. They DO! Yo know why? Because paints, brushes and canvas are hell expensive if you are beginner and just finding your way around, to see if you have skill to take it to next level.

Eclipse, BlueJay, Netbeans, etc --- all free! I wonder what art students would be given if the paint, brushes, and canvases were free? My guess? ...its not crayons and notepaper.

Edited 5 Years Ago by ztini: n/a

You are crazy.

Meaning no offense, but this is a completely idiotic thing to say. In the last month that you've been posting, you've shown a reasonable knowledge of Java, and I do not by any means intend to say that you are not an intelligent and experienced developer, but intelligent and experienced people can say idiotic things at times. To say that Peter is crazy (even though he invited the comment) is one of those things.
You disagree with him, fine. You make your case very enthusiastically, if not effectively. But to stoop to personal insults -even if invited by the target, and even if intended in jest, if such was the case - is not part of a civil discussion.

Edited 5 Years Ago by jon.kiparsky: n/a


To someone beginning programming (not just Java), I'd neither recommend a full-blown IDE or a stupid text editor like Notepad. I mean come on, if you want to test your vision, there are better things to do that "try" to program in Notepad. :-)

Let me just point out that Notepad was not one of my recommendations - I don't know where this idea came from that you should use it as a dev tool, but that idea is, in my opinion, insane. There are serious text editors in the world - I come from the unix world, so vi and emacs are the ones I'm familiar with, but there are others, I'm sure.
Use a serious text editor. Notepad is not a serious text editor.

Let me just point out that Notepad was not one of my recommendations - I don't know where this idea came from that you should use it as a dev tool, but that idea is, in my opinion, insane. There are serious text editors in the world - I come from the unix world, so vi and emacs are the ones I'm familiar with, but there are others, I'm sure.
Use a serious text editor. Notepad is not a serious text editor.

well let me just point out he might not have just been talking to you, notepad++ is a great text editor.

I went with Notepad++ and JDK (1.6.0_24)
Can anyone familar with this give me quick instruction on where to compile ( do not see a tools menu button)? I am a student that has taken Java before but it was several years ago and trying to just get my skills back in order

from the command line:
javac CLASSNAME.java

to compile

java CLASSNAME

to run.


ie,

>javac HelloWorld.java
>java HelloWorld

should compile and run HelloWorld.java.

I dont mean to sound like an idiot which is apparent right now but I am going to go with textpad because I used it before. However when I get to tools, I not not get compile java, run java application, or run java applet? I am guessing this just means I do not have something installed correctly? Once again I apologize for the dumb ?

well, the compiler is not part of the program. and i still suggest notepad++ seeing as it highlights syntax. to compile or run java programs you must first open start menu, second click run (or search run if using vista/7) then type in cd C:/Java/ (or the path of the folder your file is in) then type Javac classname.java (classname is the name of your class) then if you have no errors type Java classname. hope this helps!


EDIT: i realize that you solved this before i posted but maybe you didnt know this and it may further your knowledge

Edited 5 Years Ago by Progr4mmer: n/a

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