So I went to my https://www.daniweb.com/connect/profile/update and I see Pitch but no Introductory Message.

Maybe I'm not in my profile yet? To me it seemed odd to tell a person to check their Profile but how to get there (could be wrong right here) was to click on your avatar then Control Panel.

I can't find this "Introductory Message." Never mind, it shows when I click Continue to Step 2 or 2. Still feels like this system is for folk that know where things are.

On that page you just linked to, notice the bottom of the form says "Continue to Step 2 of 2". It's a 2 page form. Introductory Message is on the second page.

Note that everyone, by default, has an Introductory Message set to something very benign such as, "Nice to meet you! Let's connect." which is similar to the Introductory message that LinkedIn uses. You only need to customize it if you want to.

"Continue to Step 2 of 2" to me doesn't tell the there are more options. In my apps steps are steps and when there are pages of options we use "More options/settings."

Definitely needs testing with users that are new to DW and you give them simple tasks like "Edit your profile." Control Panel does not tell me I'm going to get to my user settings or profile. There's a disconnect from the menu text and where I'm going.

Of course once you get there by looking around then you know. Navigation signs need work.

So, once again, clear as mud. I had seen Noli mentula on my profile page under Community Profile under Header. I didn't go to the Business Networking page because as a mod/retiree I do not consider myself as a business user and have no interest in business networking. Apparently Noli mentula was migrated automatically to this page with the change-over. Needless to say, I have sinced changed my entry on this page as well.

So let me just ask, what is the difference between text entered under Header (which is far from clear in intent and might as well be labeled "Type something here") and text entered under This message will automatically be sent to users you would like to meet. (which is admirably clear in intent).

My tuppence worth, for what that is worth (two pence, did I hear you say?)

Sure. I had to explore a little to find the different options, and some needed more exploration than others. But once I discovered them I didn't find the UI confusing. So, with the profile settings for example, I just worked my way through all the options including the business networking one as I appreciated that DaniWeb and Dazah have become a single entity and it makes sense to make it clear who I'd be interested in connecting with and for what purpose - mainly as a preventative measure to try and stop as many unwanted connection requests as possible truth be told. As far as the 'continue to step 2' thing, even though it doesn't say 'more options' I kind of guessed that there was more left for me to do because there was a second step flagged in the process. Sure, I'm not a newbie to DaniWeb but I am a newbie to this interface and had no access to it as it was being developed - so feel my exposure is as genuine/relevant as any new member. I guess the proof of the pudding will be in bums on seats stats, engagement, retention etc.

I found a silly, but better way. A new member wanted his account deleted so I edited his request (without changing it) with the reason "You can delete your own account by going to your profile pages."

Of course it added the "This is an automated notification..." boilerplate but at least it avoided the "let's get acquainted" text. Sometimes you don't want to make a connection. Sometimes you just wanna send a message.

Before you reply "why didn't you just post that in the thread...", there is no guarantee that he would go to that thread and see it. With a PM he gets a popup the next time he goes to Daniweb.

commented: That is much better. I too thought it weird how the new system ended up. +0

Keep in mind that Post Edit reasons are public and everyone can see them. So a post edit message about deleting an account can be kind of rude to tack onto the bottom of someone else’s post. It’s important to always use features the way they are designed. Hacks are sometimes less useful in the long run.

In the Dazah platform, every time there is a message to someone, that’s a connection with them.

@Dani, that may be so but then my connections get polluted. Since I can't see how to control what's in my connections Reverend Jim's workaround looks great.

Post Edit reasons are public and everyone can see them.

It is still a much easier way to get a conversation going.

No, no, no ... please do not do Rev Jim's suggestion. It is not great. It's confusing, at best. Insulting, at worst.

If I was a new member to a community, and I made a legit post, and then, when I ask for private communication with a staff member for a website support issue, instead their response was publicly tacked onto my post, I would firstly never visit the website again, and secondly find it highly insulting.

I do not understand why you cannot just use the Meet button and then type your message??

@Dani. Because Jim's method is superior since it keeps my connections from collecting extras. It's a great work around. If there was a way to edit my connections such as "just for DM", "Casual", "Business", and such then I could see using that but as it stands it's like the home page. No controls of filters.

Speaking of the home page, in two or more weeks of landing there just one time did I click on a card there. It's untapped potential to me. So out of over a hundred home page views I clicked on a card and the other times wondered at the picks and items it was showing.

Keeps your connections from collecting extra what??? Whether an automated moderation message is sent, or your intro message is sent to kick off a conversation, they are both equally a new connection. One is confusing. The other is not. They both take the same number of clicks.

The API offers the ability to flag messages and conversations, as you’re suggesting. However, as the feature went underused for the past year, I didn’t build it into the new UI. Someone can still write a browser plugin to reincorporate it.

Right now, just a few seconds ago I clicked on the message bubble at the top right and it's full of folk I don't know. Yes, I can click on them one by one and archive to clean it up but it's tedious. This is just another reason Jim's method looks like a nice alternative.

If you use Jim’s method, they show up in the list just the same. All unarchived conversations do.

Literally the absolute only difference is that, with Jim’s method, the message you want to say is displayed for all to see tacked onto the poster’s post, and there is a permanent record that their post was edited, typically for a rule violation. Without jim’s method, the user gets an introductory email that a moderator has something to say to them. Everything else between the two methods is the same.

So it's moot. Archive it is.

OK, so now let's get back to the drawing board. Stop looking at the current Dazah messaging platform as anything related to the old PMs. Instead ... what's wrong with the current platform? It's not meant to be an incarnation of the old PMs. It's meant to be something comparable, yet with a better API, than LinkedIn's messaging platform.

I do not understand why you cannot just use the Meet button and then type your message??

For two very good (IMO) reasons.

  1. Using Meet would require sending two messages, the first of which is a canned message that is cumbersome to change for special cases
  2. Using Meet sort of implies I want to make a connection. Usually I do not. As a moderator I just want to send a PM.

For example. let's say a member has posted something that i consider borderline inappropriate. I could

  1. lay on an infraction with a (system limited) brief message which would be visible to all. Or
  2. send a PM with a politely worded rebuke which would be visible to only the offending member

In the second scenario I would not want to prefix the PM with an intro PM with boilerplate text like "Jim wants to say hi." I really don't see what the proble is with the old method

  1. go to the member profile page
  2. enter a message and click Send

I do not understand why you would remove this capability from the moderators.

commented: Thanks for elaborating. I can see why it turned out like this but the front page is something I just don't get. I bet many others don't get it either. +0

Hi Jim,

I think you're missing the point of the Introductory Message.

When I want to connect with someone on LinkedIn, at the time I send a connection request, the recipient gets a little blurb about me, taken from my profile, to add some context to the first message I send to them. When a friend request is accepted on Facebook, FB sends the first message of the conversation, "Say hi to your new Facebook friend, <name>".

With this platform, this introductory message can be customized. Ideally it would be something such as, "Hi, I'm Jim, one of DaniWeb's moderators." This adds some context when initiating a conversation with someone.

So, let's take your example. Suppose you want to message someone who has posted something that you consider borderline appropriate. It might make sense for you to send a PM with a polite message only visible to the offending member. Let's say, for example's sake, you want to write, "You were not very nice to Narue in your post in the C++ forum."

Well, from the member's perspective, which makes more sense to a newbie to the site ... A very random message out of no where from some random guy named "Reverend Jim" that says "You were not very nice." or A new conversation initiated from some random guy named Reverend Jim that says "Hi, I'm Jim, one of DaniWeb's moderators. You were not very nice ...".

There are over one million users in our platform. Only the regulars know each other by name. By having a little introductory message about who you are sent to anyone you initiate a conversation with for the first time, it adds context for that user as to the conversation you've initiated with them.

I can't think of a single instance where initiating a new conversation with an introductory message that says, "Hi, I'm Jim, one of DaniWeb's moderators." could be a negative experience for the recipient.

I also want to address your point that using Meet implies you want to make a connection. Remember, Dazah and DaniWeb have now been fully integrated. Dazah is all about connections. Supposedly, you joined our forum in the first place to connect with other techies, whether it's to provide help, to get help, or any reason inbetween. As a moderator who wants to send a message to a member, you want to connect with them ... whether that's to take them aside, and say something private to them, or what ... it's a private dialogue between you two, and we call that a connection.

We have not removed any capability from the moderators.

I just want to add that by sending what should be a private message by editing someone's post, it can be considered using a mod tool in an attempt to circumvent our Meet functionality, and is akin to posting a "fake" signature instead of using the signature facility in your profile. It has many undesired side effects for the recipient and website.

Thanks for the explanation. I can see your point. I'll try it your way.

Sorry for coming in late to the discussion (just back from a couple of days of business travel that sucked the life out of me) but I am with Dani on this one: contacting a member for whatever reason is making a connection, and the new system seems to work well enough once you get over the notion that 'making a connection' is somehow a bad thing. I actually like the introductory message thing, makes it feel more like a community thing rather than just a 'process' thing. If you see what I mean :-)

You would not send me an answer to a message in a PM because I quote, "I would not send it in a PM because it would only benefit you". Now you want to. What was your problem? I forgot about it until Dani asked me something and I opened your nice message. In Windows 10, I still can not make a DVD DL. So if you want the world to kow and I really could care what or where you answer it. Post it.

Sorry DaniWeb4jim, who was that aimed at in this thread?

Thanks Jim, the fog is lifting and I can see clearly now etc :-)