0

America is about freedom, the freedom to be uneducated, the freedom to arm themselves, the freedom to belong to a church group, the freedom to work or not to work, the freedom to guzzle gas and polute the air, all is included in the word. Any politician doubting these sacred principles is on the losing end, as far as the average voters are concerned.

Only to the point where your freedoms do not conflict with my freedoms. You have the freedom to rob my house but I have the freedom to shoot you dead while doing that. If you choose not to work and you are otherwise perfectly capable of working then I have the freedom of not paying for your food, clothing, housing etc; as far as I'm concerned you can just live out in the cold and starve to death.

>>the freedom to be uneducated
No you don't. Children are required to be in school (or be home schooled) until they reach a certain age or graduate. You don't have the option of not doing that.

>> and polute the air
Don't have that freedom either. You don't have the freedom to smoke in public places here in Illinois anymore either.

0

You have the freedom to rob my house ... ?
Dear, that's not a freedom, but a crime!

Children are required to be in school ... ?
Sorry, that does not imply an education! Lots of kids graduate that can barely write their name or figure out change at the cash register.

0

Children are required to be in school ... ?
Sorry, that does not imply an education! Lots of kids graduate that can barely write their name.

You are right about that, unfortunately. And schools should loose their accredication for allowing that to happen.

0

I would not equate the freedom to polute with puffing your smoke into somebody's face in public. That is just plain old rude, just the way farting in a restaurant would be!

0

"Today (Jan 22, 2008) I have withdrawn my candidacy for president of the United States," Fred Thompson, a former Tennessee senator and Hollywood actor, said in a statement.

Any other Hollywood actors to replace this good and honest man?

0

Wow, so it's the Clintons that spread the rumor about Obama being a Muslim. Now that is dirty!

Based on past evidence, it's also par for the course. Your point?

Anyone know what the name is for the church Obama proclaim his membership in? I've heard some stuff about that from others, and it'd be nice to be able to confirm/refute what I've heard.

0

I would not equate the freedom to polute with puffing your smoke into somebody's face in public. !

But it is the same thing. A car or truck in front of me with smoke billoing out the tailpipe is just as offensive as tobacco smoke. Or how about the huge amount of smoke and other nasty stuff that comes out of smokestakes as many manufacturering plants. If that doesn't convince you then fly into LA on a nasty day when the smog is so think you can't see the ground.

0

Anyone know what the name is for the church Obama proclaim his membership in? I've heard some stuff about that from others, and it'd be nice to be able to confirm/refute what I've heard.

He is a member of this church

As for Fred Thompson -- he's too nice. This is no such thing as a nice politician. I don't think he had his heart onto this campaign anyway. He appeared to me as if he didn't really want to do that.

0

He is a member of this church

As for Fred Thompson -- he's too nice. This is no such thing as a nice politician. I don't think he had his heart onto this campaign anyway. He appeared to me as if he didn't really want to do that.

Does that mean you have to be a real beast to run for president?

0

"Today (Jan 22, 2008) I have withdrawn my candidacy for president of the United States," Fred Thompson, a former Tennessee senator and Hollywood actor, said in a statement.

:(

Well, I guess y'all on the other side of the fence don't have to fret over my vote -- shootin' in the sheets.

But RE...

I would not equate the freedom to polute with puffing your smoke into somebody's face in public.

T'ain't the public I'm worried about. It's my privates.

0

Yes. Politicians lie and cheat their way into office.

I am going to take that as a personal feeling of yours and not as a fact obtained based in a lifetime of worthless research.

0

I am going to take that as a personal feeling of yours and not as a fact obtained based in a lifetime of worthless research.

Nope, not a lifetime of worthless research but maybe at most five minutes of it. Just think about all the past us presidents and name just one that wasn't a lier or cheater. They are all a bunch of crooks, but they can't help it because they were probably born that way.

0

>but they can't help it because they were probably born that way.

I don't think you're born that way, but it's the environment in which you're raised in and the kinds of decisions you make that affect who you become. Most politicians probably started out wanting to make a difference in the this country (or whichever country they're in) and just became corrupted over time.

0

Democracy means that anyone can grow up to be president, and anyone who doesn't grow up can be vice president.
(Johnny Carson in his lighter moments)

0

Yes. Politicians lie and cheat their way into office.

Seek not the favor of the multitude; it is seldom got by honest and lawful means.
-- Immanuel Kant

0

>but they can't help it because they were probably born that way.

I don't think you're born that way, but it's the environment in which you're raised in and the kinds of decisions you make that affect who you become. Most politicians probably started out wanting to make a difference in the this country (or whichever country they're in) and just became corrupted over time.

I agree :)

Most politicians probably started wanting change.. wanting to make the world a better place. But hell, with all these special interest groups, fund raisers, and basically just bribery.. most politicians do become scandalous liars and cheaters. Thus, the questions arises as to how to prevent this. We need to implement a political system in which taking bribes and lying to the public does not benefit your political career...

0

Julius Caesar must not have been much of a politician when he said:
"I love the name of honor more than I fear death."

0

>>Julius Caesar must not have been much of a politician
You are right -- he wasn't any kind of politician because he was born into that position. People of royalty don't have to be politicians.

[edit]Well, I guess I was wrong -- wikipedia[/edit]

0

Scared of taxes: Most people, when attempting to earn money, do so for themselves. As far as I can tell, working to make money for another, rather than doing so for yourself, especially in the manner of paying off a debt, would seem to be indentured servitude. Given that the current American tax bite is large enough that the supposed Tax Freedom day lies about one-third of the way through the year, this would imply that, for that first one-third year, every working man and woman in America is, in fact, an indentured servant of the government.

(I wasn't kidding about that 1/3 year bit.)

And that tax freedom day covers only direct taxes. Including indirect taxes, such as the consumer paying all business taxes in the purchase prices of products, the reductions of salaries by the employer half of payroll tax, and the renters paying the landlord's real estate tax in the rent, moves tax freedom day to September 19.

Scared of foreigners: Actually, I'd say the condition here is a bit different. From what I've seen, most people who actually speak on the issue aren't 'scared' of foreign people, so much as scared of national dissolution. If those coming in were willing to become part of the 'melting pot' that the United States of America was once known for being, there would be little problem.

The people who are really scared are union laborers afraid of losing their monopoly.

What rights are homosexual couples supposedly missing in America? The last time I checked, the word 'marriage' was a descriptive of a specific type of relationship. Getting to use it has more to do with validly filling that description than any form of hypothetical 'right'.

And I can't see any way they could do so for joint biological offspring even with the inclusion of what real medical technologies I know of.

One observation: If homosexuality is hereditary, it disproves evolution.

0

You are right about that, unfortunately. And schools should loose their accredication for allowing that to happen.

Loose? accredication?

Speaking of the uneducated....

I'm going to loose my accredication, so it can come bite you! I'm an educator.

Try "lose" and "accreditation."

0

I would not equate the freedom to polute with puffing your smoke into somebody's face in public. That is just plain old rude, just the way farting in a restaurant would be!

I don't know how one would prevent it. You can prevent the noise, but not the venting.

0

Does that mean you have to be a real beast to run for president?

The problem is that anyone I would vote for for President is the kind of person who would not run for office.

Every politician is a type A who wants to create more and more government programs. That's exactly the kind of person I don't want in office.

0

The problem is that anyone I would vote for for President is the kind of person who would not run for office.

Every politician is a type A who wants to create more and more government programs. That's exactly the kind of person I don't want in office.

FredHeads will continue to dream this: Brokered Convention.

Fred/Newt? :icon_cheesygrin:

0

I am going to take that as a personal feeling of yours and not as a fact obtained based in a lifetime of worthless research.

Does personal observation count?

Every election, our local Democrat party lays a trap to win the election. They pick the front-running local Republican and create a false scandal about him two or three days before the election:

- They accused a Republican running for school board of desiring to bring prayer back into the schools. They had absolutely nothing to back up that accusation.

- They accused a local tree expert running for office of having a business in violation of zoning. His business was grandfathered, because it existed before the zoning law.

- Four years later, they accused the same tree expert of tearing down a property owner's historic wall on the National Register of Historic Sites. The wall was only 30 years old, it was not on the register, and he was hired by the owner to tear it down, and rebuild it after removing a tree.

- They accused a local developer running for office of clear-cutting an "old-growth" forest to build a new subdivision. When I was a kid in the 1960s, that land was a carefully planted Christmas tree farm, not "old growth." It grew into a forest after the owner died.

- Likewise, they accused another developer of cutting down "old growth" on land that had a few landscaping trees in 1964. It had been farmland before the owner built an estate mansion in 1954. And again, it grew up after the owner died, as the heirs held the property without maintaining it.

- They accused a candidate of not having paid an out-of-state traffic ticket. He had paid it, and the Democrat in charge of recording the payment of out-of-state tickets in the state office "lost" the ticket info.

- They accused a Republican running for Mayor of using a "push poll". Investigation after the fact (and the election) showed that the Democrats had paid for that phony poll themselves.

- They told voters who wanted to get President Bush out of office that they had to use the Democrat Straight Party vote to do so. This deprived local candidates of votes.

In each case, the Republican had no time to get a rebuttal to the charges into the paper before the election (no political material in the 4 days before the election here), and in each case, the Democrat won the election.

Other dirty tricks:

- They had voters get two IDs. Each got a non-driver ID in one precinct, and then moved and got a driver license in another precinct. They registered to vote with each one while it was the correct address, and then voted with both.

- In the 200 election, Democrats touted dimpled chad on punch card ballots as though they represented votes. I used to repair those Documation card readers. We used the presence of dimpled chad to indicate the machine needed servicing.

- In one election, they claimed that the election was fixed. Their evidence for election fraud was that their candidate didn't win, though polls indicated a win. The trouble with opinion polls is that Democrats are more likely to answer them, while Republicans are likely to hang up or throw them in the trash.

- They planted the tip that a high ranking Democrat senator was trading votes for sex, and gave the room number it was happening in as the Democrat Headquarters in the Watergate Building.

I know of only one Republican trick against a Democrat. One local county councilman had been stopped by the sheriff for drunk driving. But instead of arresting him, the sheriff drove his boss home. A local Republican put an end to it, by tipping the state police. When they caught him, he battled police. He then accused the Republicans of trying to make him lose the election.

0

- There have been many reports of dead people voting in elections, most of them were (are) Democrats. I know it has happened in St Louis MO and NY. This phenomena has probably occurred elsewhere too.

0

- There have been many reports of dead people voting in elections, most of them were (are) Democrats. I know it has happened in St Louis MO and NY. This phenomena has probably occurred elsewhere too.

So, what is wrong with dead folks voting? They may vote smarter than live folks. :)

The number of ballots thrown out because of minor technicalities is much much larger than dead folks' ballots anyway.

0

- There have been many reports of dead people voting in elections, most of them were (are) Democrats. I know it has happened in St Louis MO and NY. This phenomena has probably occurred elsewhere too.

They paid the death tax, didn't they?

This topic has been dead for over six months. Start a new discussion instead.
Have something to contribute to this discussion? Please be thoughtful, detailed and courteous, and be sure to adhere to our posting rules.