Shit is not censored?

[riahc3]

Hello

Today in a thread, I wrote shit and it was not censored at that moment.

And I just made this thread and it is not censored.

Why?

[Dani]

Because, after a lot of deliberation among the moderation team over many years, it was determined that 'shit' was not offensive enough a word to be censored.

[Nick Evan]

I'm still waiting for a$$ to become uncensored (again), because of the macklemore-pun in my usertitle :)

[deceptikon]

Why?

The long and short of it is that shit, while technically profanity, is rarely used as a malicious attack in the context of our community. Most often it's a descriptive term for actions, objects, or concepts (eg. "That code is shit", "Your idea is shitty", "That's some funny shit"). Sometimes it's an exclamation (eg. "Well, shit!"). The key usage that's rare to the point of not being present would be a pejorative term against another, such as "You're a piece of shit". However, even that smells better than the more ubiquitous "fuck you", which happens to be censored. ;)

Ultimately it's pretty subjective what gets censored. For example, piss was censored for the longest time, and I'd like to think that my whining about it (I like to use "piss off" and "piss poor") was the main catalyst for getting it off the list on both the forum and IRC. ;)

My personal opinion is that nothing should be censored, and abusive profanity should be reported for the moderators to deal with. It's just too much trouble and too difficult to censor words programmatically in a way that makes everyone happy.

[Ancient Dragon]

IMHO the only word that needs specific censorship is the F word -- that has to be the worst and over-used word in the English language. I can tolerate all other words but that one. Even though he F word can be used in the same sense that deceptikon mentioned above it just sounds wrrooooong.

[<M/>]

IMHO the only word that needs specific censorship is the F word -- that has to be the worst and over-used word in the English language. I can tolerate all other words but that one. Even though he F word can be used in the same sense that deceptikon mentioned above it just sounds wrrooooong.

IMHO, all profanity should be filtered... it doesn't look very professional to see and if you have control over the posting it shows that this site means business. It will also scare little kids away (don't ask, i just thought of it)

[happygeek]

even that smells better

James, did you really mean to say that given the context? If so, then kudos to you sir! :)

As for the non-censorship option, I'd go for that myself. However, there is a danger in taking the freedome of speech route that aomething really offensive could either go unnoticed or, much worse, get noticed by others but left undealt with by mods for a period of time - enough time to push those of a weaker disposition than you and I away from the site. It only takes one nutter with a bot to cause chaos...

[Reverend Jim]

I've never understood why the explicit forms of certain words offend people but the more politically correct (a phrase that offends me) forms such as f-bomb, c-word, n-word, etc. do not when by saying f-bomb you are basically still saying fuck. As George Carlin so aptly put it, "shoot is just shit with two os".

And while I am on my soapbox, you have the right to be offended by something, however, you do not have the right to label something as offensive. By labeling something as offensive you are applying a property to it when in fact you are stating your reaction to that thing and that reaction may vary from person to person.

[BigPaw]

It has been said that profanity is an indication of a limited vocabulary. Also, from my experience of hearing individuals that need to use them, they used them because they didn't fully understand the subject matter and used profanity to disguise their lack of education or experience in a particular matter or subject under discussion.

Profanity is aggressive, reflecting a lack of selfcontrol and lack of emotional maturity. It always carries a negative vibe. These forums enjoy a refreshing decorum, an atmosphere of mutual respect and professionalism. It's a very good resource for information and even education. People from numerous walks of life, cultures, and as Michael said - age groups, visit here.

If nothing is offensive then where are the boundaries of right and wrong, and what should we do with the words "Respect", "Dignity", "Kindness", are they going to become taboo? Have you ever had to take a train and sit near someone with Body Odour? Hey, it's his right and choice whether he showers or not, yes? But was it a pleasant experience for you? If it is okay to use profane words, then it should be equally okay to post pictures of such an 'item' or act, yes?

Even those who use profanity in a moment of sudden frustration or pain, do so in an outburst of distress. So, to actually sit and type these words with premeditation in the setting of an educational forum demeans the forum and insults intelligence of the writer and the unfortunate reader. But this is just my opinion, and I fully realize and respect that this is not my forum. :-)

[deceptikon]

James, did you really mean to say that given the context? If so, then kudos to you sir! :)

The choice of wording was intentional, yes. ;)

However, there is a danger in taking the freedome of speech route that aomething really offensive could either go unnoticed or, much worse, get noticed by others but left undealt with by mods for a period of time

People aren't stupid. It's not difficult to infer from context what the poster actually typed. I'm of the opinion that it isn't the words themselves that are the problem, but the intention with which they are used. Replacing "shit" with "poo" but retaining the offensive context is no less offensive than if you used "shit", for example. This focus on words completely ignores the very real fact that it's the intentionally offensive use of some arbitrary word that constitutes profanity, not necessarily the arbitrary word itself.

That's precisely why I try to avoid calling people names of any kind. If I call someone a poo-poo eater or a short bus window licker, it might encourage a giggle because they're silly, but if I mean it as a serious attack on that person, those names are no better than more ubiquitous or universally recognized profanity.

[pixelsoul]

If I call someone a poo-poo eater or a short bus window licker

I giggled.

[BigPaw]

People aren't stupid. It's not difficult to infer from context what the poster actually typed. I'm of the opinion that it isn't the words themselves that are the problem, but the intention with which they are used.

Well, with that rule absolutely any and every word is permissible. Can a filter of any kind, for words or images, be justified with such a rule?

[deceptikon]

Well, with that rule absolutely any and every word is permissible. Can a filter of any kind, for words or images, be justified with such a rule?

Exactly my point. No word should inherently be prohibited because it's not the word that's the problem, it's the way the word is used. If the word is used in a non-offensive context, it shouldn't be offensive, in my opinion. Then again, profanity never bothered me even when it was intended to be offensive. And one could certainly argue what it means to be "offensive". In our current social climate, people tend to be extremely sensitive, which is why Daniweb has a censor in the first place.

[Reverend Jim]

Profanity is aggressive, reflecting a lack of selfcontrol and lack of emotional maturity.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not in favour of seeing the forums liberally sprinkled with profanities. I think these words serve a purpose but in the context of DaniWeb they are usually inappropriate. When every other adjective and gerund out of your mouth is #### then the word loses all meaning. I worked construction for several summers while going through college and I heard the results of a limited vocabulary. But I have to say, the last time I really cranked my little toe off at a 90 degree angle on a chair, the first words out of my mouth were not "oh, I seem to have stubbed my toe". Sometimes you need a release and a well thought out, exposition on pain peppered with five dollar words is not as cathartic as one single SONOFABITCH!!!!

[Reverend Jim]

And one could certainly argue what it means to be "offensive"

That's the problem. There is no shortage of people who are ready to take offense. And if they are not offended personally, they are more than willing to be offended on behalf of some other person or group. I find that attitude extremely condescending. I am quite prepared to be offended on my own behalf. Then there are the people who go out of their way to find things to be offended about. For example, my wife and I very much enjoy the TV show, Dexter. If you watch the show you know that Dexter's sister has, shall we say, a colourful vocabulary. In the context of the character and because of the quality of the show we overlook the language, however, we have read several complaints by people who think the show should be taken off the air. As far as I am concerned, if the show offends you then just don't watch it.

[BigPaw]

But that way of thinking negates many human attributes, qualities that make us different from machinery and animals. Over passing decades people have become more and more desensitized, and rules have been made against moral values, in turn having a notable impact on society. I wonder if there is a form of Godwin's Law for so-called "Political Correctness" too, when in reality some are simply talking about human decency?

I'm not suggesting that Daniweb's turning down the filter will bring the world to its knees... :-) ...but good filtering would definitely keep Daniweb elevated as a resource for all cultures, genders, and age groups.

[Reverend Jim]

I'm still in favour of the existing filters. I do not equate smashing my toe and resonding (unthinkingly) with an expletive with spending five minutes or more composing a curse ridden response to a post. In the second case I have the time to think (and rethink) what I post in order to respond in a coherent and appropriate manner. At least most of the time ;-P

And, by the way - Hitler.

[BigPaw]

Just to clarify, the post I made here was in response to Decepticon's post. For some reason your posts weren't there when I replied with that for some reason. Sorry.

but in the context of DaniWeb they are usually inappropriate.

Why inappropriate?

As far as I am concerned, if the show offends you then just don't watch it.

Is that what Daniweb would rather suggest than replace expletives with asterisks?

And, by the way - Hitler.

;-D

[Reverend Jim]

Why inappropriate?

I say usually because I don't see any reason for expletives for example when asking for help with a coding problem or suggesting a feature or even downvoting a member. If a member is being an asshole then there are other ways to deal with that than by stooping to his or her level. However, in the context of a discussion about someone in the public eye who is saying outrageous statements , such as Michael Richards' or Mel Gibson's racially motivated tirades I think it is entirely appropriate for someone to comment "he's a complete shithead".

[Reverend Jim]

Is that what Daniweb would rather suggest than replace expletives with asterisks?

As I said, I am in favour of the filters as long as they don't get too aggressive. People generally know which TV shows and movies are likely to offend them but I'm sure these same people (quite rightly) wouldn't expect to come across offending words or topics on Sesame Street or most of the mainstream talk shows. Those of more delicate disposition know to avoid shows like Two and a Half Men.

Living in a country that both loves and hates the c-word in equal measure, I find that everything else fails to shock. I'm pretty much with RJ about 'offensive and offended'. However, I'm not offended by it, but I can see how others would be - and sometimes it's not all about you. For example, I'd hate for my kids to start perusing DW and be faced with pages of profanity. So, I'd say keep it as it is. Uncensor the donkey 'a' though. Aggressive responses can be made with or without profanity. I think the tone and the intent are probably more important that the noun, but again it's very subjective isn't it?

[pixelsoul]

Not that I matter but...

I grew up on the interwebz, so nothing offends me here (especially words). But I know that other people do get offended, and it doesn't bother me one bit to filter out such words. I agree with diafol, a nasty comment/remark can be achieved without using any of those expletives, and can be just as offensive.

[Reverend Jim]

To illustrate the silliness, one time at work a female coworker was telling me about something she heard another coworker said, and to avoid having the filter obscure the actual wording I'm going to use "shit" instead of what she actually used (which was c-word). See how silly this is sounding already?

Anyway, the actual quote was "I can't believe she actually used the shit-word". To which I replied, if you were going to actually say "shit" why did you bother adding "word" to the end?

As for worrying about children perusing DaniWeb, I certainly wouldn't have wanted my young boys perusing a profanity-laden forum but once they were old enough to use the services here they were past the point of being warped by "colourful metaphors". In any case, the "keep it pleasant" rule would have increased the likelihood that offending posts would have been deleted anyway.

As for worrying about children perusing DaniWeb, I certainly wouldn't have wanted my young boys perusing a profanity-laden forum but once they were old enough to use the services here they were past the point of being warped by "colourful metaphors".

I take your point, but I don't think 'warping' is what I was thinking of. When respected sites like DW start allowing all matter of profanity, then this seems to become the 'norm', the 'expected'. My kids, while they hear bad language all day in school, would never use it at home. In fact I've only ever heard my boy use the f-word once - when he accidentally grabbed an electrified fence while we were out walking. He was mortified and I nearly wet my pants.

However, when surrounded by idiots, you can't help but start behaving like an idiot. Some days, my teaching responsibilities revolve around trying to stop out-of-control would-be maniacs from stabbing themselves and their fellow would-be maniacs in the eye with blunt erasers for 6 hours. I arrive home and start marking their work and have to stop myself from copying their actions with a knitting needle.

Bad manners often beget bad manners. A strong code of conduct should suffice though.

I can handle profanity, but it doesn't mean I like it or find it funny. Unless my kid grabs an electrified fence, that is.

[Reverend Jim]

Unless my kid grabs an electrified fence, that is.

Well, naturally. I've done that myself and even I had to laugh. Well, afterwards. But I agree with you. Just because I tolerate certain language in specific circumstances doesn't mean I want it in my face everywhere.