Undefendable?

[Aia]

That word got stuck in my ears as I forced myself to watch to the end. Why do we even have to question such unspeakable actions against the innocent and defenseless?
You tell me what kind of creature are we by standing without doing anything about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foSW-CkWbqI
To which God (or not) you pray to is irrelevant. To which political ideology or party you affiliate with, it is irrelevant. Are we human beings or not?

[GrimJack]

Sorry - I should have known your post would have been cr*p but I thought you had some decency left.

I was wrong so I will repeat something said more that 50 years ago:
Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?

[Ene Uran]

Using those arguments would make the pilot of a Navy fighter bomber "accidentally" dropping bombs on civilians a mass murderer.

There is no sense of decency amongst smear mailers!

[GrimJack]

I think the word you were looking for in the title was indefensible - just for future reference.

[Aia]

Using those arguments would make the pilot of a Navy fighter bomber "accidentally" dropping bombs on civilians a mass murderer.[...]

Do you understand that there's not accident in this law? Do you know that these babies are born alive, and doctors and nurses are forbidden to render any assistance to save them?
Are you aware that these little ones are left to die, struggling for air, since their little lungs are not quite developed? Do you know we have the power to do good and save them but purposely deny such assistance, bonded by law of the land?
It doesn't matter how's camouflaged, a law that allows this to happen is a crime, not an accident.
My mind is struggling to understand how it is possible that there's people among us which are stripped of the human values that would prevent this to happen. And I am talking from lawmakers that conceived the idea, supported and uphold it; all the way to people that think is acceptable. May justice fall upon them, and as a reward receive an ignominious death in measured kind.

I think the word you were looking for in the title was indefensible - just for future reference.

That's why it has a ? at the end. However, the word I would like to have used is despicable.

[VernonDozier]

The video you link is from 2000 and has this title:

Obama's Crime Against Humanity—Infanticide

Hardly anyone had even heard of Obama in 2000. I certainly didn't watch the whole video, but what does Obama have to do with an abortion video from 2000?

[Aia]

The video you link is from 2000 and has this title:

Obama's Crime Against Humanity—Infanticide

Hardly anyone had even heard of Obama in 2000. I certainly didn't watch the whole video, but what does Obama have to do with an abortion video from 2000?

Have I mention the precious Obama at anytime? Does it change the outcome who or when?
If you would had watched to the end of it, perhaps you would have received an answer to your last question. In three different occasion he voted against legislature that would stop that barbaric actions and would protect the life of these innocent ones. Are you going to pull a statute of limitation on me now?
Let me clarified that this is not about him who comes to save us all, certainly there's many more lawmakers involved.

[VernonDozier]

Have I mention the precious Obama at anytime? Does it change the outcome who or when?
If you would had watched to the end of it, perhaps you would have received an answer to your last question. In three different occasion he voted against legislature that would stop that barbaric actions and would protect the life of these innocent ones. Are you going to pull a statute of limitation on me now?
Let me clarified that this is not about him who comes to save us all, certainly there's many more lawmakers involved.

I watched the first two minutes of it originally and didn't see anything about Obama. After reading this response, I skimmed later and I see where Obama comes in. You can't post a 10 minute video with a title that says "Obama's Crime Against Humanity—Infanticide" from a clearly partisan You Tube channel with other videos with titles like

"Salon.com's Liberal Lesbians Attack Sarah "

and claim that you aren't mentioning Obama or that:

To which political ideology or party you affiliate with, it is irrelevant.

Don't start a thread like this and claim that it's not political.

[Aia]

>Don't start a thread like this and claim that it's not political.
I haven't made such a claim. This is obviously political since I have outspoken against lawmakers that justify this law.

You can't post a 10 minute video with a title that says "Obama's Crime Against Humanity—Infanticide" from a clearly partisan You Tube channel with other videos with titles like

"Salon.com's Liberal Lesbians Attack Sarah "

and claim that you aren't mentioning Obama or that:

Why can I not? I have come to enough evidence that the testimony given it is the truth.
It is political charged with mister Obama in the thick of it, but to avoid it is like taking a bath and pretend not to get wet.

[GrimJack]

That's why it has a ? at the end. However, the word I would like to have used is despicable.

No, the question mark is there because you have no clue. I saw the '?' and assumed that you had an open mind and were looking for answers. Instead you point to an anti-Obama screed. I will paraphrase my first quote:
Have you no shame, at long last lady, have you no shame?

If despicable is what you would like to have used, then why didn't you use despicable? If you somehow believe that Fox News in general and BO'R in particular are a good source of anything other than rightwing propaganda, then say so up front - do not mislead us by pretending you have a question.

[GrimJack]

I have come to enough evidence that the testimony given it is the truth.
It is political charged with mister Obama in the thick of it, but to avoid it is like taking a bath and pretend not to get wet.

If you have come to enough evidence then bring to us this real evidence. Do research; find articles from medical journals; find articles from legal documents. Then bring Obama into the evidence with quotes from his speeches or position papers. Please, at least follow some of the rules of discourse.

Or just spew cr*p from your comfortable little cocoon, your choice.

[Aia]

I saw the '?' and assumed that you had an open mind and were looking for answers.

You assumed incorrectly. I am not looking for answers, and I am not open minded. The truth is the truth regardless of the spin. And it is its own best ambassador.

do not mislead us by pretending you have a question.

I have not mislead anyone. You are not us or everyone. If you feel mislead is due to your own presumptions and bigotry.

>Last edited by GrimJack : 19 Hours Ago at 18:34. Reason: I know that Aia is female, I just wanted to keep the quote whole
You know nothing and you can prove it.

For the record, I am against Obama or anyone that has the same ideas that Obama. In a matter of fact, now more than ever.
Nevertheless, any one lawmaker that has such little respect and disregard for human life, especially, of those innocent little one, are as equal as a rotten carcass infected with putrefied-fresh eater maggots.
Am I clear enough for you? Am I misleading you in anyway?

[GrimJack]

You assumed incorrectly. I am not looking for answers, and I am not open minded. The truth is the truth regardless of the spin. And it is its own best ambassador.

I can see that; you are bigoted and hold on to your beliefs with considerable vigor (or rage - you be the judge)

I have not mislead anyone. You are not us or everyone. If you feel mislead is due to your own presumptions and bigotry.

please show me my bigotry without showing yours

>Last edited by GrimJack : 19 Hours Ago at 18:34. Reason: I know that Aia is female, I just wanted to keep the quote whole
You know nothing and you can prove it.

You are correct - I have only your word to go on and you are telling me I should not trust that.

For the record, I am against Obama or anyone that has the same ideas that Obama. In a matter of fact, now more than ever.

Okay, we understand that; to be honest, once you tell us you are not open-minded - it becomes more difficult to care.

Nevertheless, any one lawmaker that has such little respect and disregard for human life, especially, of those innocent little one, are as equal as a rotten carcass infected with putrefied-fresh eater maggots.
Am I clear enough for you? Am I misleading you in anyway?

Wow, <sarcasm>Did you get any saliva on your screen or keyboard</sarcasm> you are definitely clear enough for me. Do you know that doctors use putrefied-flesh(I am sure you meant 'flesh' rather than 'fresh') eating maggots to clean out wounds - they actually seal the maggots into the wound because maggots do not eat live flesh, only dead flesh. This helps in those situations where gangrene has already set in. Now I understand that you are not interested in learning anything new but you know what:

I do not care, if you continue to post, I will continue to try to help you open your mind.

[Aia]

>Okay, we understand that; to be honest, once you tell us you are not open-minded - it becomes more difficult to care.
Experience has shown me that the open-minded phrase it is used by those that do not like when others do not agree with them. No, I am not open minded. I am quite sure of what I am saying, and I accept all truth without prejudice, once I learn that it is true.

I don't have reason to doubt the testimony of nurse Jill Staneck. Nevertheless, here it is the roll call record for bill 1082, where Barack Obama, as chairman of an Illinois state Senate committee, voted down said bill to protect live-born survivors of abortion, in 2003.
http://www.nrlc.org/ObamaBAIPA/ObamaKills2003amendedBAIPA.htm
At the right hand column it shows the roll call from Obama and fellow Democrats.

>I do not care, if you continue to post, I will continue to try to help you open your mind.
Oh my, how presumptuous of you.

[GrimJack]

Like I have said before "If only ignorance were painful"

Of course I am presumptuous; how could I not be, especially as I choose this definition: impertinently bold; forward.

[Aia]

>Like I have said before "If only ignorance were painful"
...you would be begging your doctor for bigger and stronger pain-killer.

[Chaky]

That word got stuck in my ears as I forced myself to watch to the end. Why do we even have to question such unspeakable actions against the innocent and defenseless?
You tell me what kind of creature are we by standing without doing anything about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foSW-CkWbqI
To which God (or not) you pray to is irrelevant. To which political ideology or party you affiliate with, it is irrelevant. Are we human beings or not?

Abortion is only one of the self-centered acts that humans do. And it is not the worst of them. At least "abortion" sounds somewhat technical, civilized.. a routine if you like. With abortion there is at least some emotional detachment. Far worse is same thing being done as an act of hatred or some demented sense of satisfaction.
Imagine this: 2-month-old baby nailed with a 10-inch knife trough the chest to a wooden post. And the only reason for it was the nationality of the baby. Sounds like some b-horror plot? Or a legacy from the dark ages? Nope. It is an event that took place some 15 years ago.
My point is: those things are still happening no matter how "enlightened" we think people are.

Here is my quick-list of human-specific categories of irrational, yet widely accepted behaviors:

- annual slaughter of baby seals and skinning them alive.. and for what? Money? Food? NO!! For a fashion statement and a social status symbol.. (I'm referring to consumers of the final product that are making the market for it. How vain and self-centered can one be, I ask myself.). I used the baby-seals because they are the most popular.. in reality, it is a common practice in the leather and fur industry to skin animals alive. They say that fur looks prettier that way..

- brainwashing 15yo girls to blow themselves up in a overcrowded plaza (I'm sure that it was not their idea) or making soldiers out of 9yo boys (9yo kids should be playing with toy-guns.. not killing with real ones)

- walking through the forest, armed with 12-gauge, night vision, binoculars and a camouflage outfit, killing animals at random, perceive it as a recreational pass-time and calling it a sport. (A Sport? A SPORT!!?? It would be a sport only if deer had guns too. Humans are THE ONLY creatures that kill for fun.)

- Using lies to influence the masses and provoke them to do all sorts of the hate-driven monstrous atrocities, like murders, lynches, genocides, wars.. or just a plain "it's OK to wage wars" approval.. IT IS NOT OK AND IT WILL NEVER BE!!

- Killing unborn babies.. that is an extreme display of how unwanted some babies are. Or even worse: a display of how trivialized a human life has become.

Unwanted babies.. When I think about that term, I can't help but to assume that it is acceptable to think that babies can live only if their moms WANT to have a baby at that particular moment. Otherwise, a baby is nothing more than a benign tumor that needs to be removed. Also, WANTED baby must be some sort of pet or a fashion accessory (or a publicity stunt, if you are a celebrity).

I guess some people just can't wait for an excuse to kill somebody.
I guess the existence of one is the reason enough.

[GrimJack]

>Like I have said before "If only ignorance were painful"
...you would be begging your doctor for bigger and stronger pain-killer.

Heh,heh - I played that game in first grade, it was boring even then - the whole rubber/glue thing.

Anyway, thank you for playing.

It seemed sort off that phrase you used rotten carcass infected with putrefied-fresh eater maggots. - I don't know what about that phrase does not seem very Christian but it has resonance -- I bet it sounds even better in the original German.

[Chaky]

Heh,heh - I played that game in first grade, it was boring even then - the whole rubber/glue thing.

Face it, man. You are still playing.

[GrimJack]

Face it, man. You are still playing.

So now you are starting with the first grade stuff.

Say something interesting or go away.

[Chaky]

I will not say anything "interesting" for you, nor go away at your command.

I'm simply observing and speaking my mind.

You two should meet in real world and resolve those issues once and for all. This way you are only bloating this thread and deviating form the subject.

[Aia]

Honesty is the best policy on the world. As an added bonus, you don't have to keep tabs on what you say.
I have been honest and sincere as much as this medium allows me to show; even to the risk of exposing myself to the mockery of bigotry.
If you find fault in my writing is due to my ever present inherited handicap of my dominion of the English language. For that I ask to please, excuse me.

The intention of this thread was to bring awareness to you, that as I, value human life, and didn't know that these actions were taking place.

Also, some hope was placed on you that persuaded by current political trends have rationalized the matter. I thought, perhaps, you could be persuaded again to find or make a little room, to consider the gravity of the issue at hand, which is this:

Defenseless, innocent children, against all odd, survive the cruel procedure of abortion, to just been left to die, when we have the power to assist and perhaps help them to make it.

Yes, I used a video that could be used for partisan political purposes, but when else do we know more about what's going on there, that when there's a political campaign?
I do not endorse any political party, and any sympathetic ideology shared with any candidate I keep as a conversation with friends. Let me remind you that contrary to media coverage, there are more than two parties.
I wanted to be clear on that. You know for whom I will not vote ( I don't know if that was such good idea to divulge ), and you know what I think of lawmakers that endorse and uphold such practices; you have hear it from me, maybe even in a little more colorful way than was necessary.
There was not deceit at anytime on my part. It is not my style.

[Lardmeister]

Despite the cost of living, it's still popular.

[Chaky]

I have been honest and sincere as much as this medium allows me to show; even to the risk of exposing myself to the mockery of bigotry.

I think that it is obvious of what your point is, and you shouldn't apologize for what you say. It is only common sense and fundamental philosophy of what is right and what is wrong that justifies your opinion. Although, you could've used material that didn't include ever-present US election campaign. I, myself, don't give a rat's ass about Obama or whoever runs for a president. It is not my world.

[Lardmeister]

You better believe in prolife or I will shoot you!

[Chaky]

You better believe in prolife or I will shoot you!

Hehe.

[Aia]

You better believe in prolife or I will shoot you!

Wow, that's a curved ball!. You got me used to your “look at me how witty I am” one liners, but in truth, this is, possible, the smarter comment I have ever seen from you.

You realized that even when abortion is the root of the problem, it was not the topic of discussion in itself.

I can only guess, how many would clicked in the thread, read a few lines here and there, perhaps watch a few seconds of the video and go away concluding that this was nothing more that another anti-abortion rant by someone who doesn't like Obama. No matter the effort that I put in trying to expose that this is what sometimes happens after a failed abortion.

Labels are not my thing. Any movement, not matter how noble in its cause, has its own caveats; that you have to accept and compromise with. Having the tendency to stand by what I think, I am careful to avoid quick answers that would imply, guilty by association.
Pro-life and Pro-choice are some of those labels I don't care to carry associated to my thinking or actions.
If you mean prolife as like against abortion, I'll tell you what I believe.

Some have over-simplified humans as “animales racionales” (animals that reason), even when at times I doubt about the reason part, I believe it doesn't make justice to the human race.
Part of what makes us fundamentally different that our closest life form neighbors, is that we understand the value of human life, and we apply emotion to it.

You probably, have seen in Nature or Wild Life documentary were huge herbs of powerful wild bulls can be driven by just a few lioness. When a few of these beast together, could crash any predators that try to demise their kind. Instead, they run, leaving the weakest behind, and when the lioness are filled, life continues as nothing has happen. They are driven by instinct.
And it is by instinct that when a lion male obtains a pride, defeating another male, the first thing it does, its to kill the defenseless little cubs, so their mothers enters in heat and procreation would start.
It is moving, to see the tiny pads lifted in the air, the little cub trying to defend itself from a huge adult without much effort open its mouth to squish the little tummy until stops moving and expires.

Are we like them?
I would like to think not. We have invented the words “heroine and hero” to apply on those individuals that placed great value in human life, to the point of risking their own in hope of saving others. Take that value out of us, and we would truly be, not much different than these animals I mentioned.
How does this apply to abortion?
I believe even in an embryonic state that's a human being. Give him/her enough oxygen and some nutrition via mama-cord and they will have the same chance that we all have had.

I hope this explains my view better.

[Chaky]

“Animales racionales”, (or, as I like to call it, human animals) are the ones that don't do justice to human race.

We are, nevertheless, part of the animal realm, but comparing humans with wildlife creatures isn't something I would agree with. In a wilderness there is no "right" and "wrong" philosophies. There is only "survival" or "demise".
"Lions killing weak pray" isn't just "lions killing weak pray". It is also "lions preventing diseases" and "lions feeding their cubs". And the fact that 2-ton beasts run away from much smaller and weaker predator only proves that there is benefit in death of the weak. They EVOLVED that way and it is in their nature to run away and thus filtering their kind of weak links.

However, it is NOT natural behavior to sacrifice one's lifetime for the benefit of some corporation and to go in that direction to such extent to think that it is "normal and expected" to put a career on the top of the value-list.
I see that as a major cause for abortions.

[R0bb0b]

You all state a problem, not a solution.

Have you ever heard the term "I wish I were never born", well some people mean it. I just heard a story today that a 14 yr old girl dumped her new born baby in a trash can in Scottsdale, AZ yesterday. Some lady on the TV states "I find this to be an eye opener that such young kids are sexually active". DUUUUUHHHH!

What needs to be done is birth control needs to be provided for free in public schools, no questions asked. Birth control should also be provided for free in clinics around the city. Right now in order to get it for free you have to provide proof of income. That 14 yr old girl didn't have to provide proof of income to throw her baby in the trash can.

People obviously are not going to pay or ask their parents permission to be responsible, it needs to be easy for them.

[Aia]

Your solution is not such. Been tested in another country I know, and it doesn't live up to expectation. Still, irresponsible people find themselves making more irresponsible choices and abortion is a reality.
Don't laugh, but I really have the solution. Guarantee to work all the time. Do not have sex.

Now seriously, nothing beats parents getting involved in the life of young teens, a more of less proper guidance toward life and human values, and if the "unthinkable" happens, to know that adoption is always a better choice.
I am not against contraceptives, it is just not the "solution", because there's not solution to bad judgment and irresponsibility, wrong values, and society fast lane to instant gratification, specially, in the glamor of sexuality.
The easier it is made, the easier it is ignore. Free agency at play.