I know...

[tygerberg]

Hi
I know this isn't the type of topic to talk about, seeing as people may be offended at some point. But I just want to know if software developers/programmers have any time to be involved/practise their religion?

[jwenting]

yes, they do.

[~s.o.s~]

Whatever gave you the idea those two things were related...

[ndeniche]

i don't see why we shouldn't have time...

[christina>you]

What would restrict them?

[Salem]

I look forward to a time when all overt expression of religion and idolatry is treated for what it is, namely a mental illness.

I also regard teaching children about religion as institutionalised child abuse. Religions would die out within a generation or two if it were not for the wholesale indoctrination of the next generation to perpetuate the stupid meme.

But those at the top of the heap would have empty lives and would have to get a real job, if it were not for the hordes of sheep which follow and that can be fleeced for money (or suicide bombing runs). No sirree, you'll never see a high level acolyte strap a bomb to themselves when there's plenty of ground floor cannon fodder fed with empty promises to do the work.

Put it this way, if you commit a crime and your defence is "god told me to do it", then you get carted off to the funny farm in the snugly fitting jacket with the wrap around sleeves. The rest is just a question of degree. How stupid or illegal do your actions have to be before you're in the nicely padded cell?

To me, it's just another socially unacceptable habit (like smoking). Once widely practised, it is now banned in many places.

There's a sign on the far side of the moon put there by aliens, it says "Stay away, they've got religion and nukes".

[christina>you]

Oh no... let's not get into a religious debate again. Those kill me.

[tygerberg]

I just asked here because having spoken to programmers. They say they don't have time for it. And I'm still in high school thinking of a career in programming.

I just want to be true to my faith and if not being able to have time for it in the programming field than I should reconsider what I want to do with my life.

[Bench]

To me, it's just another socially unacceptable habit (like smoking). Once widely practised, it is now banned in many places.

Seems like a fairly blunt view of religion you've got there :)
I don't see religion as a problem in itself (We all have to believe something, right?) Afterall, some of our most ancient laws and 'human values' come as a direct result of religion in some form or another.

The problem, as you say, is with brainwashing and extremism, when people of a certain orientation decide that its in their own interest to affect someone who's not of their own beliefs, and to inflict those beliefs or that way of life on someone else.. In this light, the problem is far bigger than just one of religion (for example, rival city gangs fighting between each another, left-wing militants versus right-wing militants etc). The key is mutual understanding, moderation, and acceptance, even if we might not be 100% happy with someone else's view of the world :)

And, err, just to stay on topic, I think if you manage to let programming take up all your waking hours and interfere with some other lifestyle stuff, then there's a real imbalance! :P Personally i'd like to leave at least two or three hours a day for rest & relaxation.

[Infarction]

I just asked here because having spoken to programmers. They say they don't have time for it. And I'm still in high school thinking of a career in programming.

I just want to be true to my faith and if not being able to have time for it in the programming field than I should reconsider what I want to do with my life.

They don't have time only because they don't want to have time. Any decent job will still allow you to have a balanced life.

[~s.o.s~]

> We all have to believe something, right?
How about believing in yourself?

[quintoncoert]

i agree with salem. my opinion is that we are still in the aftermath of the time that witch doctors and priests ruled tribes via the orders of ther gods and the human race has not yet let a generation go free so as to break the cycle.

but for you tygerberg i can only say that if a programmer does not want to practice his religion then work is a really bad excuse. programmers has as much time as the average worker for religion. often more. trust me. you will have time for it.

[EnderX]

i agree with salem. my opinion is that we are still in the aftermath of the time that witch doctors and priests ruled tribes via the orders of ther gods and the human race has not yet let a generation go free so as to break the cycle.

Does this include those such as yourself? I believe, if I recall correctly, that you consider yourself an atheist. Does this not mean that you believe in randomness as cause, and nothingness as result?

but for you tygerberg i can only say that if a programmer does not want to practice his religion then work is a really bad excuse. programmers has as much time as the average worker for religion. often more. trust me. you will have time for it.

I'd go a bit further along this path. My faith is something I can practice anywhere, at any time; it's not tied to specific rituals or performances.

[quintoncoert]

@ enderx

yes i am an atheist. i dont know what you meant when you asked whether i consider myself a part too. if you mean a victim of tribal past then no not anymore. when i was a child yes. but during my mid teens i started recognising the truth for what it is.

i also dont understand the cause and randomness thing you went at. all of reality is a set of factors interacting. those factors continuously cut reality and what happens is a result of how that reality was cut.

let me give a very limited but complex example.

a human being dying.

the human body is composed of systems which in turn is composed of organs which in turn is synthesized from tissue made up of cells. over time, and under the guidance of DNA, many things happen to a body which causes damage for whatever reason and for whatever reason the replacement of tissue and organs is not as effective so as to be perfect. sooner or later the damage accumulates and the body can no longer say for example breath and the brain cells dies because there is no oxygen for them.

this should be enough but let me enter a few random factors into it. just to make things clearer. inject HI viruses into the human and then these viruses destroy the immune system which can no longer protect the body so that every bacteria can attack the body and you of course hasten the process of death.

on the other hand if you protect the organism then death takes longer. on average a lion in captivity will live longer then a lion in the wild because of being fed regularly.

all of reality follows this pattern. factors interacting and influencing one another. it is a lot like john conway's game of life. only on a much much much greater scale.

[joshSCH]

Wow, good post. I agree with Salem and quintoncoert. :)

[ndeniche]

of course... that's because you're an atheist too... :P (not that i'm discriminating anyone)

your (religion/faith/whatever you want to call it) is something that must be on top of any other thing, since is your source of wisdom... the source of "life" to your soul... so, if anything is an obstacle to practice your religion (which i doubt it can be possible), you should strongly consider to fix anything you have to fix so that it isn't that way...
though, in the life of programmers, there is many spare time for you to dedicate yourself, or your mind, to other activities besides programming, or troubleshooting, or whatever your work is... for example, if you have nothing to do, even if you're in your office, you can pray... so, if you're really committed to your religion, and convinced that it is what is going to save you, you should be able to find time to dedicate to your religion...

[joshSCH]

of course... that's because you're an atheist too... :P (not that i'm discriminating anyone)

your (religion/faith/whatever you want to call it) is something that must be on top of any other thing, since is your source of wisdom... the source of "life" to your soul... so, if anything is an obstacle to practice your religion (which i doubt it can be possible), you should strongly consider to fix anything you have to fix so that it isn't that way...
though, in the life of programmers, there is many spare time for you to dedicate yourself, or your mind, to other activities besides programming, or troubleshooting, or whatever your work is... for example, if you have nothing to do, even if you're in your office, you can pray... so, if you're really committed to your religion, and convinced that it is what is going to save you, you should be able to find time to dedicate to your religion...

Yes, I find the whole idea that programmers have no time for religion laughable.. What makes programmers busier than any other profession? They may like to think so, but I seriously doubt programmers have less time to spare than.. politicians (and we all know how sacreligious they are ;)) or um full-time small business owners.. Or people with multiple jobs with a family to raise.. Basically, as everyone else has pretty much said, there is time for religion in any profession.. so long as you commit to it. You get out whatever you put into something.. If you are actually religious, and an active practicer of that religion then you will find time for that religion no matter what you choose to do with your life. However, it is possible that you eventually figure out the truth for yourself, and drop religion. :)

[Sturm]

>What makes programmers busier than any other profession?

The fact that many of them work 80 hour weeks?

[ndeniche]

but they're not actually working the 80 hours a week... they might be at the office or whatever, but they're not actually working the whole time...

[Infarction]

>What makes programmers busier than any other profession?

The fact that many of them work 80 hour weeks?

poor fools...

[quintoncoert]

remember the guy says he is from south africa. i am from south africa too and i have yet to meet the guy that program for 80 hours a week. of course if he wants to migrate to sturm's country....

i believe that the guy who told him that he did not have time was lying. and even if you work 80 hours a week you still have time for a prayer. i am betting my mind (i would have said soul but since i dont believe...) that tygerberg would have time to practice his religion.

@ sturm

by the way i like your signiture. it is so true.

[Sturm]

> by the way i like your signiture. it is so true.

Thanks.

Well programmers do work more hours than most people right? (I was always under the impression that programmers were expected to pull "all nighters" )

[joshSCH]

> by the way i like your signiture. it is so true.

Thanks.

Well programmers do work more hours than most people right? (I was always under the impression that programmers were expected to pull "all nighters" )

No, not necessarily.. lol why would you think programmers worked so much harder and longer than everyone else? Perhaps b/c you're a bit biased.. and naive.

[Ancient Dragon]

Quite often working lots of hours is counter-productive. I recall a couple times I put in 72 hour days and the solution hit me after I finally went home. Working 80-hour weeks often is a bad bad idea because the mind needs a period of rest and relaxation. If your employer regularly requires you to work 80 hour weeks then quit and get another job. It ain't work it.