Voting rolls - cleaning or sabataging??

[GrimJack]

There is an interesting development in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Mississippi, state Attorneys General are suing the Boards of Election to remove all voters from the rolls whose address does not match the address in the Department of Licensing db. In some of the larger cities, plans are in place to send members to polling places with lists of foreclosure notices to challenge any voter whose address is on the list.

Do you believe that a data mis-match between the voter database and the DMV database is an accurate way to determine eligibility to vote?

Do you believe that a list of home under foreclosure will be a valid test for voter eligibility?

[VernonDozier]

There is an interesting development in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Mississippi, state Attorneys General are suing the Boards of Election to remove all voters from the rolls whose address does not match the address in the Department of Licensing db. In some of the larger cities, plans are in place to send members to polling places with lists of foreclosure notices to challenge any voter whose address is on the list.

Do you believe that a data mis-match between the voter database and the DMV database is an accurate way to determine eligibility to vote?

Do you believe that a list of home under foreclosure will be a valid test for voter eligibility?

I'm cynical of the motives on all of this. Any individual test is going to help one side or the other. James Carville, Howard Dean, Karl Rove, Dick Morris etc. all hire armies of statisticians to analyze statistical correlations. Democrats have an edge in urban areas in general, so anything that purges any voters there, everything else being equal, is going to tend to benefit Republicans. I'm definitely guessing that people facing foreclosures, as a rule, are going to not be pro-Bush Administration, so purging them hurts Obama. I'm guessing that people whose addresses don't match what's on file are going to tend to be younger and to be renters, who also probably favor Obama. You could also think of lists that would be Republican-heavy and purge based on them, which would help Obama (i.e. you're disqualified because you failed to pay your fine for hunting without a license). I'm all for getting voting lists that make sense and are accurate, but I'm suspicious of motives and I take it as a given that whatever purging is on the table will help one side or the other and that that definitely affects the decision of whether to do it. The only fair way to do it is probably to require a difficult-to-forge National ID card that you present at the polling place, but I don't think the country as a whole wants that.

[Ancient Dragon]

AFAIK there are no laws that require people to notify DMV when they move. So IMO purging people whose address doesn't match the DMV database is just silly, and very probably illegal, and apparently the Attorneys General of those states do too.

But theres a dillema: how can states legally and fairly correct the voter registration lists? I suppose one way is to put the lists through the paper shreder and require everyone to register when they show up at the voting poles.

[jwenting]

Excellent. Far too many fake voter registration cards are in circulation, most of them created by far left groups btw (which is of course why the left is so opposed to voters needing to identify themselves).
In other countries it's quite normal that you can't vote without first proving who you are, and getting that identity registered so you can't go out and vote more than once.

[GrimJack]

Excellent. Far too many fake voter registration cards are in circulation, most of them created by far left groups btw (which is of course why the left is so opposed to voters needing to identify themselves).
In other countries it's quite normal that you can't vote without first proving who you are, and getting that identity registered so you can't go out and vote more than once.

You don't find it suspicious that they waited until 2 months before the actual election to come up with these plans rather than, say, a year ago so that there would be time for response?

[jwenting]

nope. Hit them at short notice so they have no time to think up another fraudulent scheme.

[Ancient Dragon]

What will they do with all those dead people who like to vote? We had quite a few of them here in St Louis the past few elections - and they all voted Democrats.

[VernonDozier]

What will they do with all those dead people who like to vote? We had quite a few of them here in St Louis the past few elections - and they all voted Democrats.

My great aunt voted when she was dead. Absentee. She died the day after she mailed it in. I have to believe that vote was counted. It wasn't fraud though since as far as I know she didn't know she was going to be dead. Two years later when she got another absentee ballot in the mail and THAT was sent in, well that may have been illegal. By the way, that's at least one counter-example for you, AD. She voted Republican in that one. If I had gotten to the mail before my cousin did, she probably would have voted Democratic.

[sneekula]

Being thrown out of your home, spouse kids and all, because of fraudulent banking practices shouldn't also steal your right to vote!

Having dead democrats vote is a minor problem. In most states illegal immigrants can easily vote, they have an address. Also, a huge amount of votes are thrown out because of minor flaws. Let's face it, voting in the US is on a working day, making it harder for a working person to vote.

[GrimJack]

nope. Hit them at short notice so they have no time to think up another fraudulent scheme.

Somehow, this makes no sense. You are saying it is better to disenfranchise a million voters to stop unknown, unproven, 'possible' cases of voter fraud? Do you even think through what you say?

[GrimJack]

My great aunt voted when she was dead. Absentee. She died the day after she mailed it in. I have to believe that vote was counted. It wasn't fraud though since as far as I know she didn't know she was going to be dead. Two years later when she got another absentee ballot in the mail and THAT was sent in, well that may have been illegal. By the way, that's at least one counter-example for you, AD. She voted Republican in that one. If I had gotten to the mail before my cousin did, she probably would have voted Democratic.

Are you from Chicago? I love the old "when I die, have me buried in Chicago so I can continue to vote Democrat"

[Ancient Dragon]

I think we need Jimmy Carter to organize a group of UN troops to oversee elections in USA. He does it in other countries, so why not here?

[VernonDozier]

Are you from Chicago? I love the old "when I die, have me buried in Chicago so I can continue to vote Democrat"

Nope, I just follow their lead. Can you imagine what the Chicago fixers could do with Absentee ballots? No more hiring hundreds of people to go around to all those polling places.

[Ene Uran]

Do you mean sabbataging? Moving the voting day to the sabbat or Sabbath.

I still think it doesn't matter whom you vote for. Once in DC they all turn into the same thing.

[Ene Uran]

I think we need Jimmy Carter to organize a group of UN troops to oversee elections in USA. He does it in other countries, so why not here?

Now watch out, Jimmy Carter was a Nuclear Engineer by training. He couldn't even organize his own wallet.

[Dave Sinkula]

There is an interesting development in Wisconsin, Michigan, and Mississippi, state Attorneys General are suing the Boards of Election to remove all voters from the rolls whose address does not match the address in the Department of Licensing db. In some of the larger cities, plans are in place to send members to polling places with lists of foreclosure notices to challenge any voter whose address is on the list.

Heh.

[GrimJack]

Heh.

Cr*p! At least point to the primary source rather than your creepy rightwingnut websites.

<zing>

[Dave Sinkula]

Cr*p! At least point to the primary source rather than your creepy rightwingnut websites.

<zing>

Uh, the primary source was linked in the creepy rightwingnut website.

[GrimJack]

Uh, the primary source was linked in the creepy rightwingnut website.

That does not answer the question of why you did not link to the primary source.

[Dave Sinkula]

That does not answer the question of why you did not link to the primary source.

Dunno. I figure people can read and click. Sometimes the summary version is easier to evaluate whether or not some care to continue reading. And the surrounding commentary sometimes adds an angle I might be coming from. So on the whole I find such versions to be a combined H/T, quick summary, linked source, plus brief opinion: better. YMMV.

[Edit]Follow-up:

Why does McClain hate the American worker?
<<rhetorical eye-catcher>>
With oil at an all-time high,

Why don't you post the original source so I don't have to search? I certainly wouldn't want to think HuffPo was it.

[Dave Sinkula]

Again leaving it to the individual to pursue the link tree (depending on one's level of interest) to the original newspaper reporting linked within, More ACORN Voter Fraud in Wisconsin.

When the article puts something like "this story" in the opening paragraph, I kinda feel like I'm talking down to people by reproducing it -- so another reason I post links the way I do would be that I find regurgitation to be somewhat condescending.

And then there's the fact that I'm lazy. :icon_razz:

[jwenting]

And combine that with this story linking Obama with ACORN to get a clear picture of how the Obamessiah is planning to corrupt the November elections.

[GrimJack]

And combine that with this story linking Obama with ACORN to get a clear picture of how the Obamessiah is planning to corrupt the November elections.

Well more emotionally laden cr*p with no supporting documentation (I went to that article and found no reference to Obama and that is the article that Dave and I were discussing - show us something with substance).

I notice that there is no count mentioned so we do not know what they consider 'a sizable number' is. This is especially important because we have the count for the number they enrolled. It would also be helpful to know what the overall count of invalid applications for the entire state/town/county. What we have is an article with vague references and complaints that it slows down "our operations". There is no advantage for ACORN to 'purposely' try to register invalid applications; the advantage is that most of the applications that they register will vote Democratic - and that is the reason for the hysteria around the error rate.

For this to mean anything, we need real numbers.

[Dave Sinkula]

There are plenty of places to start if you're into the yeoman's work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_of_Community_Organizations_for_Reform_Now#False_registrations_by_employees

I might if I had much interest in this; to me it's a bit of a yawner.

[Dave Sinkula]

And combine that with this story linking Obama with ACORN to get a clear picture of how the Obamessiah is planning to corrupt the November elections.

Well more emotionally laden cr*p with no supporting documentation.

Cr*p! At least point to the primary source rather than your creepy rightwingnut websites.

D'oh. It's spreading. :icon_razz:

Sometimes, methinks, you parse others a bit too much.

[GrimJack]

No I don't - I get away with that because I am cool and liberal. I get to do it and you don't so there.

Well, actually you gotta keep poking me or I won't see it.

Or maybe your creepy rightwingnut is a valid, dispassionate description??

[Dave Sinkula]

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/09/15/acorn-commits-fraud-in-michigan/

The spokesman for ACORN says that they’ll “do an investigation”, but after dozens of complaints in several states — most of them battleground states in presidential elections — the pattern certainly has established itself. Either the leadership of ACORN encourages fraud, or it hasn’t the competence to keep it from happening. Given the convictions of some of its workers for fraud and the continuing instances of it, it doesn’t appear that ACORN has any desire to stop fraud, and indeed operates for the purpose of committing it.

[jwenting]

Grimjack won't accept any evidence of leftist corruption and fraud that doesn't come from a leftist source, and leftist sources aren't going to expose their own interests as fraudulent...

[Ancient Dragon]

Dead People Voting

An analysis of state-wide records by the Poughkeepsie Journal reveals that 77,000 dead people remain on election rolls in New York State, and some 2,600 may have managed to vote after they had died. The study also found that Democrats are more successful at voting after death than Republicans, by a margin of four-to-one, largely because so many dead people seem to vote in Democrat-dominated New York City. (Link via Ed Still's VoteLaw.)

[Ene Uran]

Don't you believe in resurrection?

The amount of illegal aliens voting is far larger than the amount of dead people voting.