Dialysis

[nitin1]

why do we say science is develeped so much and it can do anything today if it wants. why dont we have treatement for kidney failure ? only dialysis ? which eats up and demolish a person's bones on per day basis. it is a silient killer. only kidney transplant that too not succesfuk very much.why dont we have medicies which can regenerate kidney cells ? hell it is!! :'( pathetic condition!

[imBaCodes]

Its not that science can't cure it.
Its because god decided some of us to have it.

[nitin1]

GOD ? if we are child of GOD, then why do we have these kind of pathetic evil in our body ?

[imBaCodes]

Its Because of the DEVIL. >:P

[nitin1]

and absence of GOD is EVIL. so if GOD is there, EVIL cant stand

[stultuske]

imBaCodes: so, if some cheap-ass industrial dumps a lot of toxic waste in a healthy environment, damns the next x generations to a certain, painfull and very fast death, then

Its because god decided some of us to have it.

seriously, I hope you are kidding. it's a bit like: I come over there, and kick you in your nads.
you're not going to say: 'God wanted and decided I should have painfull nads', you'll knock me off my feet, more likely.

as for the original question:
take into account that it took evolved man thousands of years to get where we are now. Science isn't done in a few seconds, it takes years, decades, centuries of research, which is being delayed because people who claim to have spoken for God, used to hang or crucify those who had the nerve to actually think and learn about any of it.

some investigations 'll take a lot longer than another... sometimes it just takes an apple bumping you on the head to start investigating it, et voila, the gravity theory was on it's way.
you are asking about cures for conditions that weren't known to man that long ago, so naturally, nobody was looking for a cure.

[jwenting]

Dialysis doesn't have to cause bone problems IF accompanied by a diet to compensate for the loss of minerals.
Problem is most people (including most kidney patients) refuse to eat a healthy diet, and sadly a lot of dieticians and physicians alike don't take the trouble to find out what a healthy diet is either, instead just prescribing the mantra "low fat, high fiber" they've been spewing out for decades to all their customers irrespective of physical and medical background.

So we have patients getting bad advice about the diet they're to follow, then getting osteoperosis because of the dialysis and getting that treated with pills which require more pills to counter the side effects when a diet with a bit more calcium and potassium (probably) would have prevented the problems before they got started but their dietician was so obsessed with the "low fat" that she ordered them on a diet without any dairy products (or worse, was a vegan and ordered the patient on a vegan diet not because it is good for the patient but because of her own personal lifestyle convictions).

[nitin1]

yes true!! i hope you can guess why have i started this. my grand pa is in situation in which i don't want even my extreme enemy to be. 2 years , i know how he has passed and now his intestine is no working and want a surgery , but he is not in condition to get a surgery. so what now ? if you do, u will die and if u dnt do, u will die. ppl said , take him to america , may be he will be cured and all. he cant have kidney translplant as he is 78 years old now. so what now.

[Agilemind]

Sad as it is everyone dies, thanks to medical research we have now got a lot better at knowing the different diseases and different ways people can die. Sometimes we can do something to put off dying a bit longer, but sometimes we can't (or what we can do will probably make you die quicker).

America for all its claims of medical cures has hundreds of thousands of people dying because of medical errors or mistakes every year, not counting those who die because of treatment as expected by medical science (treatment is still encouraged because they would be more likely to die without it).

Sure regenerative medicine is in the works but the not well publicized side effect to much of the early research is that it often causes cancer. Research is being done to get around this issue but it will still be a long time before it reaches patients.

78 years is a lot more than people could expect only a few decades ago so celebrate and enjoy every extra day you get together thanks to dialysis.

[nitin1]

:'( but how will i live without him ? he is my heart ! to whom can i tell my feelings ? my parents are also so impatient. his ambitions, care, love , he himself i gonna miss.

[ddanbe]

Text(my translation) out of the song "Testament" from the Dutch singer/songwriter Bram Vermeulen

If I die, do not cry
I'm not really dead, you know
It's only a body that I left behind,
I'll be dead, if you've forgotten me.

[imBaCodes]

Stultuske:

Everyone of us has his/her Opinion.
Its not no one was looking for a cure . Its Because that illness does not exist in the past centuries.
Why do we have this desease nowadays? its because of Science noot all things discovered by science
help the world, SOme of them Destroys the environment.

[mike_2000_17]

:'( but how will i live without him ? he is my heart ! to whom can i tell my feelings ? my parents are also so impatient. his ambitions, care, love , he himself i gonna miss.

I'm sad to hear that. I think you ought to tell him about what you just said there. I had a feeling from your original post that this was more of a cry of pain than anything else. Your grand pa will live on in the memories you share and in the things he inspired in you. Cherish every moment you have left with him, but don't be afraid, everything's gonna be alright. Talk to him about it, after all, I'm sure he has faced plenty of deaths of loved ones in his own life.

@imBaCodes:

Its not no one was looking for a cure . Its Because that illness does not exist in the past centuries.
Why do we have this desease nowadays? its because of Science noot all things discovered by science

You really must be joking, or insane. It's true that many illnesses did not exist in past centuries, that is, when life-expectancy was around 25-30 years old. Since medical science (mostly germ theory, hygiene, vaccines, and penicillin), life-expectancy has almost tripled. Many of the old-age illnesses didn't exist because very few people made it to that age, and those that did, died of "old age" or "natural death" which are just umbrella terms for unknown old-age illnesses. When only a tiny fraction of the population makes it to be old enough to have gray hair, then, of course, you won't see too many cases of these old-age diseases (type-2 diabetes, kidney failure, osteoporosis, Alzheimers, etc.). So, I guess in some sense Science is responsible for creating these diseases, that is, by extending our life expectancy far beyond what our bodies are "naturally" able to sustain (by "naturally", I mean, if we still lived like we did from prehistoric times up to the middle ages (i.e., the pre-scientific era), i.e., with no hygiene at all and using stupid supertitious none-sense and prayer to "heal" illnesses).

[imBaCodes]

nitin1
Its not the end of the world yet. You just have to show him,how uch you love him
i experienced that before. Sad to say i dont have my grand pa and grand ma now.
mike_2000_17
Yes of course , We should be thankful to science. But What im trying to say is Science has Both Good AND Bad effect.

[Van1234]

Your All Great.

[<M/>]

But What im trying to say is Science has Both Good AND Bad effect.

Of course... science only has a bad effect if religion gets involved (remember Galileo?) or when theories are conflicted/forgotten. But science is good because if it weren't for science, much of what exists today wouldn't be the same! YOU (all the users) probably wouldn't have made it past birth if it weren't for science proving that it is important to be sanitisized!

So overall, science is good but religion should be in its own category and we must respect our deities for the ability to study science.

I think that is a good round up of my beliefs.

[Assembly Guy]

Glad to not have the need for imaginary friends ;)

Just kidding - mad respect to anyone who has any beliefs, or lack thereof; none of my business unless it gets in my way or if someone starts ramming their religion down my throat.

[<M/>]

Just kidding - mad respect to anyone who has any beliefs, or lack thereof; none of my business unless it gets in my way or if someone starts ramming their religion down my throat.

That is a problem with people. If something is in their face, they will smack it silly until it is evened out for them. What one believes should be kept to themselves and one should not get hostile over another person's belief. I mean aethiests tried to corrupt most religions when the space shuttle was first launched and we went straight through the sky and saw no heaven. That is an example of science and religion attacking each other in modern day.

I am a muslim and i say we went see heaven until the after life :)

[Assembly Guy]

What one believes should be kept to themselves and one should not get hostile over another person's belief

I understand entirely. I live in New Zealand, and by our very nature, we don't give a care in the world about someone's religion, colour or anything. We just aren't 'in your face' about anything. I'm athiest and most of my friends are Christian, but I couldn't care less. One of my athiest friends is the only person in her family who's not Hindi, but they don't care.

And that's a fair point about heaven. Hey, perhaps heaven only occupies some other dimensions which we, at the moment, can't percieve, but when we 'die', perhaps we actually become unable to experience the dimensions we're in now, but become able to experience the dimensions that heaven occupies...? Makes you think...

[stultuske]

Everyone of us has his/her Opinion.
Its not no one was looking for a cure . Its Because that illness does not exist in the past centuries.
Why do we have this desease nowadays? its because of Science noot all things discovered by science
help the world, SOme of them Destroys the environment.

first of all: Religion is not an actual 'opinion'. it's a matter of where you are born, what the overall accepted religion there is and what you are told as a child to believe. basically, you are ordered, programmed, if you will, to have certain beliefs.

sure, people can make up their own mind and 'break loose' or choose not to, if that's the case, good for you, won't hold it against you, but remember it too can have it's darker sides, it has proven that already.

Now you tell me: has everything the Church done in the past been in the benefit of mankind? something tells me that when you read up on the crusades and the inquisition, you'll either be shocked, or show to be a bit of a religious zealot, which are, in some cases, very dangerous people to hang out with.

as Mike pointed out, the life expectency now is much, MUCH higher then it was then. yes, it has it's downsides (aging of an entire population, in some cases even overpopulation), and, some illnesses that were there, weren't recognized as such. do you think you can give a correct estimation of people tortured to death because they were eptileptics, or suffered of schizofrenia? does the word 'witch-hunt' sound familiar? as a good catholic boy, it should.

Unless you are the one saying "I'm personally going to kill everyone over a certain age" your argument about science makes no point. either it is bad, and it's consequences (longer life span, for instance) should be condemned, or, even though it has it's lesser parts: nuclear power used for bombs, ... (duh), you should at least keep in mind that so has the Bible, Koran, or any other Holy Scripture in existence.

all it needs is one whack-job thinking he understands it all, hands out his interpretation of it to people desperately seeking for someone to guide them, and you have one hell of a problem.
over the centuries, I'm afraid, more people have died because of "it's God's will!!" then by nuclear weapons.

next time you break your leg, why don't you come over here, I'll put a bunch of leeches on it, bleeding you out, and, of course, I'll pray. that is the only treatment the church used to allow for about any illnes. something tells me, that when that time comes to pass, you'll be sitting on your knees, thanking God that there were scientists who risked prosecution, torture and execution just so that you don't have to needlessly suffer in this day.

or, to say it in terms you might find more agreeable: God has chosen to give us a brain and common sense. not using it, could be considered an insult to God, couldn't it?

I mean aethiests tried to corrupt most religions when the space shuttle was first launched and we went straight through the sky and saw no heaven. That is an example of science and religion attacking each other in modern day.

<M/> : if they could, that only means you don't truly believe. every religion has it's own version of an afterlife. for some it's Heaven, for some Walhalla, for some it's Janna, others believe they come back in a higher form...

so, basically, who goes to Heaven, won't come back, nor "see" the others, just the same as the others won't see Heaven. an aethiest 'll see nothing, doesn't say anything about what you'll see. next to the fact that Heaven/Janna/... is not measurable in "it's 70000 km up", how could we even do?

I know you were right in saying that people shouldn't attack other peoples beliefs. personally, I don't like to either. what ticks me off though, is that a lot of people use "I believe!" as an excuse for "I don't need to use my brain".

sure, science isn't perfect, and neither are all the results it produces, no denying that.
If I just consider all the money wasted each year on creating a 'green colored carrot' or some other crap like that ... sure, it pisses me off.
but when I see a bisshop (or equivalent in another religion) stands devoted in front of his people, asks them, with tears in his eyes, to please donate some money for the poor ....
after which he drives home in his BMW...

one of the main differences I see, between religion and science... in science, argumentation is optional, and remains a possibility. good luck trying that in a religious context.

[ddanbe]

I suffered from a disease called PKD. Many cats also have it ;) I was treated for 5 years with peritoneal dialysis which I found a milder from of the common hemodialysis.(You don't have to watch your pottassium intake for instance) Four years ago I got a kidney transplant and now I take some 10 pills a day. Thanks to science, I live!
If I would have been praying some 10 years ago, you would not see me writing this post I guess . . .

[imBaCodes]

next time you break your leg, why don't you come over here, I'll put a bunch of leeches on it, bleeding you out, and, of course, I'll pray. that is the only treatment the church used to allow for about any illness

Maybe your right, they do this its because they believe in GOD.
God is the only cure to all illness and i'll be happy to DIE fighting for the
things i believe and how god really affected my life. Praying and believing him always
give back good Karma,

[stultuske]

Maybe your right, they do this its because they believe in GOD.

nope ... they did that because they didn't know better. practicing medicine in medieval times = perfect way to be a serial killer and never get caught.

something tells me you wear clothes ... why? didn't God create you naked? aren't you shaped in his image? it's called common sense to try and improve yourself, and help others doing so.

next time it freezes, will you roll over and die, or get a blanket or turn on the heater? if you truly believe that God has all the answers, and science has none, I'm afraid the only casuality of your "fighting for what you believe in" will be you ...

[Agilemind]

Science is not good or evil any more than a hammer is good or evil. Science is a tool to discover how things work and how to manipulate them to do what you want. If you want to protect the environment science can tell you how best to do it. If you want to extract more oil from the ground science can tell you how.

Overall humanity has done a pretty good job at using science to do good things (heal people, build nicer & safer buildings, increase food so fewer people have to go hungry, create faster ways for people to travel & communicate with each other) but humans aren't perfect so sometimes they didn't think things through very well and ended up polluting or they got angry/scared and used science to create horrifying weapons.

[jwenting]

But What im trying to say is Science has Both Good AND Bad effect.

Science is neither good nor bad. What people do with the knowledge science provides may have good and bad effects, but even that usually depends on the impact those effects have (e.g. a nuclear explosion is neither good nor bad in itself, it's what it's used for that can have positive or negative consequences (or a combination of both).

[jwenting]

God is the only cure to all illness and i'll be happy to DIE fighting for the
things i believe and how god really affected my life

so you refuse all medical care when you get sick? I seriously doubt you'll have that strength of faith when you're screaming out in pain after an accident that leaves you with a broken bone sticking out through your skin. or a potentially terminal infection eating away at your intestines.

We'll see how deep your faith in being miraculously healed by a god you deny gave us science and medicine is when something like that happens to you.

[jwenting]

something tells me you wear clothes ... why? didn't God create you naked? aren't you shaped in his image? it's called common sense to try and improve yourself, and help others doing so.

Always have to laught at that one. Man was created in God's image, but he has to cover himself because he is supposed to be ashamed of his naked body.
So Man is to be ashamed to look like God? That doesn't bode well for God, does it?

[Van1234]

stultuske
Are you really a son of god?
Why do you not believe in god?
Why do you prefer science more than god?
God created this world including your BRAIN, God created us with our own freewill . Science though is not EVIL but not thanking god that we lived in this civilize world. While Science is LEADING US NOW TO DESTRUCTION. Can you read news papers? Do you watched the TELEVISIONS? what will you do if i send to your house a nuclear missile? lets see if you will still love your science that will lead you to destruction?

[imBaCodes]

Why do you not believe in god?

I don't know if he really does.

[Ancient Dragon]

That's just so much bullshit. Science is leading noone to destruction. If God created everything then it follows that God also created science, and doctors, and dentists, and ... It's a little like the gun issue -- guns don't kill anyone, people kill people. God created science, so what do you expect He thought we should do with the science He created? I see no conflict between belief in God and science. Science is nothing more then our attempt to explain how and why God created all that stuff. Science is just an attempt to explain to ourselves something that has always existed. Nuclear weapons have always existed, since the beginning of time itself, because God created it that way. Man didn't create nuclear weapons, God did.

So you can not say that "science is leading us now to descrition". That's just a ridiculous statement.